Illegal to radar near airports?

[Cyberdx16]

Is it illegal for a police officer to use a radar gun near airports?

[Firefighter Z]

Nope, it doesnt mess with Aircraft Radar because its a totally diffrent frequency.

Messing around in the tunnel eh?

[That_Guy]

lol.... my passport goes nutz around airports

[lordairgtar]

lol.... my passport goes nutz around airports
you are picking up building security systems. Happens a lot in Business / Industrial parks too.

[flyin_blue_egg]

speaking of wierd shit....i know with some of the back up cameras if you go near a store etc. that uses CCTV you can actually pick up the CCTV shots on your back up cam.

[ND4SPD]

It's not illegal... *but* it is sometimes an arguable point in court as to whether it could be interfering with the police radar. The radar manual in the National Motorists Association's legal defense kit (you can buy the manual separate though) explains this as well as things like Cosine Error, etc...

[07ROUSHSTG3]

speaking of wierd shit....i know with some of the back up cameras if you go near a store etc. that uses CCTV you can actually pick up the CCTV shots on your back up cam.

fox 6 had a story about that, did anyone see it? you can actually pick up more than that. they took a cruise around town with a cheap backup camera and were picking up peoples personal security cams, video baby monitors, and all sorts of other wireless signals. it was kind of wierd. :wow

[ND4SPD]

So, the backup cams are wireless to the display unit? They only take a power hookup? I guess I didn't realize that. Otherwise I don't see how that's possible. But yeah, those signals aren't encrypted so as long as you hit the right frequency... hell, you could probably figure out a way to wire up a scanner to the monitor and then think of all the stuff you could pick up. 'course if they're using frequencies above 1.3GHz... that rules out most consumer scanners.

[Cryptic]

A police radar is going to only look for or measure "Doppler shift" of the frequency its tuned too.

If a car is traveling away from the radar, each wave has to move further, the gap between each wave increases, increasing the wavelength. If the car is approaching the radar, each successive wave travels a lesser distance, decreasing the wavelength.

An airport's radar is going to use specific frequencies, pulse width, pulse modulation, scan type, etc to benefit their application. Airports would be much like an earlier warning radar, with the purpose of detecting planes that are far away in a large radius of the airport. It would use lower frequencies and longer pulse widths so the waves would travel farther. Bearing, altitude, approximate speed are primary concerns.

A police radar would be much different. Higher frequency and short pulse width as too improve the resolution of the change in velocity and aim at a narrow target.

[Mr Twigbert]

Not to mention radar is hardly ever used.. 95% of the time laser is used..

[CobraSnake]

lol.... my passport goes nutz around airports

Is it the X band that goes nuts??? If so they are right about security systems and what not.

Mark

[Goat Roper]

X band is what you will find goes nuts most often from land based door opening systems, airports, etc. K band not so much.

[ND4SPD]

A police radar is going to only look for or measure "Doppler shift" of the frequency its tuned too.

If a car is traveling away from the radar, each wave has to move further, the gap between each wave increases, increasing the wavelength. If the car is approaching the radar, each successive wave travels a lesser distance, decreasing the wavelength.

An airport's radar is going to use specific frequencies, pulse width, pulse modulation, scan type, etc to benefit their application. Airports would be much like an earlier warning radar, with the purpose of detecting planes that are far away in a large radius of the airport. It would use lower frequencies and longer pulse widths so the waves would travel farther. Bearing, altitude, approximate speed are primary concerns.


A police radar would be much different. Higher frequency and short pulse width as too improve the resolution of the change in velocity and aim at a narrow target.

I understand, but police radar is subject to electromagnetic interference just like any other electronic device. Now, the aviation radar *shouldn't* affect it... but there have been documented cases where it has. The officers are *supposed* to be trained to notice interference from sources like this... but many are lazy and just don't think about it. They treat their speed measuring devices as if they're "point-and-click" and they're really not. There are a LOT of things that can interfere with a radar signal or disrupt its findings. You'll find that a lot of cops really don't know that much about the devices (radar and laser) they're using and if you corner them in court (personal experience) and start testing their knowledge they get flustered. Try it sometime... get one on the stand and start asking them to explain cosine error, how it happens, how to tell if it is happening, and how to avoid it. I bet you even money they'll go "uh... what?"


Not to mention radar is hardly ever used.. 95% of the time laser is used..

Um... not so sure about that. I'd say the vast majority of the time Radar is used because it is much easier to use. I don't see too many cops running laser unless it's nice outside.

[PureSound15]

^^^ Somehow, I don't think you're going to win that argument against Twig. :)

[ND4SPD]

^^^ Somehow, I don't think you're going to win that argument against Twig. :)

Probably not. :) Maybe it's used more than radar around here... but I can tell you for a fact that isn't the case in Madison or most other places I've been. Just as anecdotal evidence, I've lost track of the number of times I've been hit with radar... I've been hit with laser maybe, 20 times?

[Cryptic]

Try it sometime... get one on the stand and start asking them to explain cosine error, how it happens, how to tell if it is happening, and how to avoid it. I bet you even money they'll go "uh... what?"


or better yet "Blind Speeds"... When your speed creates a doppler shift that is a harmonic of the pulse transmitted.
Well you'd have to be as fast as a jet for that though :D

http://www.radartutorial.eu/11.coherent/pic/blind.gif

[CobraSnake]

Probably not. :) Maybe it's used more than radar around here... but I can tell you for a fact that isn't the case in Madison or most other places I've been. Just as anecdotal evidence, I've lost track of the number of times I've been hit with radar... I've been hit with laser maybe, 20 times?

see thats the same thing I noticed with my radar detector. I see K and Ka all the time but I rarely see laser. I'm actually happy that I don't see laser that much because i'm my radar detector its really loud and it scares the crap outta me when it goes off. I remember the first time I heard it go off I almost crashed the damn car. Although laser detection seemed to be alot better then radar detection on my radar detector speciffically.

Mark

[Goat Roper]

see thats the same thing I noticed with my radar detector. I see K and Ka all the time but I rarely see laser.

Radar is more of a radio broadcast compared to laser which is a thin directed beam of light. If your laser detector goes of you are either picking up a scattering off a car directly behind or ahead of you or just got tagged as opposed to radar which could be coming from anywhere within a mile or so.

[CobraSnake]

you guys ever played around with "POP" mode??? I see it occassionally and we told it is cops scanning the area for speeders(to see if there are multiple speeders in the area). But it seemed to make my radar detector notice things quicker?

Mark

[DirtyMax]

If it is, I'm going to go protest the ticket I got under the airport tunnel back in 99!!! :goof

[BAD LS1]

The laser reading on my passport 8500 x5 goes nuts on the road leading into the air port, like every 5 sec it will go apeshit. Must be the rotating radar dish? Same thing near a doppler weather station on 33 outside of alleton, laser goes apeshit there too.

[ND4SPD]

see thats the same thing I noticed with my radar detector. I see K and Ka all the time but I rarely see laser. I'm actually happy that I don't see laser that much because i'm my radar detector its really loud and it scares the crap outta me when it goes off. I remember the first time I heard it go off I almost crashed the damn car. Although laser detection seemed to be alot better then radar detection on my radar detector speciffically.

Mark

I'm not just referring to times when my detector has gone off... I'm talking about times I've confirmed that I've been clocked. Every so often a Trailblazer (or other GMs) tail lights will set my V1's Laser sensor off. About 7 times out of 10 I have noticed the officer using laser before my detector has gone off unless it's at night. My V1 doesn't have POP so I wouldn't know if it performs better around here or not.

For the most part Laser warning is worthless. The light doesn't scatter and bounce around the way radar waves do so most of the time you only get a warning if you've already been hit, or the beam passes through the windshield of the car in front of you and hits your detector.

[ND4SPD]

The laser reading on my passport 8500 x5 goes nuts on the road leading into the air port, like every 5 sec it will go apeshit. Must be the rotating radar dish? Same thing near a doppler weather station on 33 outside of alleton, laser goes apeshit there too.

Are you talking about the dome just outside Horicon? That station does it to my detector too. It is weird that it sets the laser warning off and not one of the radar bands.

The one I'm talking about is right here: http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCC&cp=43.445843~-88.492121&style=h&lvl=17&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1

It's just north of 33 on Dakota road.

[BAD LS1]

Are you talking about the dome just outside Horicon? That station does it to my detector too. It is weird that it sets the laser warning off and not one of the radar bands.

Thats the one, its a NOAA Doppler radar station, and just like the airport the laser will go nuts every few seconds and stop and keep repating untill i get within or away about a 1/4 mile from the radar dome.

[70 cutlass 442]

If it is, I'm going to go protest the ticket I got under the airport tunnel back in 99!!! :goof

haha, they freak out when you reopen a ticket from two months ago. but so far i have not had to to be in my disadvantage :thumbsup

[Z28Envy]

I dropped my finace off and the airport Sunday morning and when I left the laser on my dectetor kept going off on my way out of the airport. Funny this came up.

[ND4SPD]

Thats the one, its a NOAA Doppler radar station, and just like the airport the laser will go nuts every few seconds and stop and keep repating untill i get within or away about a 1/4 mile from the radar dome.

Are you sure it's a NOAA station? Several years ago when I first saw it I went and checked it out and there were signs saying it was an FAA facility. I figured it was a radar antenna for ATC.

From what I'm finding... it's an Air Route Surveillance Radar.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=699745



Farvour, an airways transportation system specialist for the Federal Aviation Administration, will be at his post today in the Horicon Air Route Surveillance Radar station on Highway 33 between Horicon and Allenton. It's the only long-range radar station in Wisconsin, and it tracks all aircraft traveling over Wisconsin, the northern third of Illinois, southeast Minnesota, Lake Michigan and western Michigan.

[BAD LS1]

heh, i thought i saw sign near it years ago is why i mentioned NOAA.

That is intresting though, and puts more question on WHY near an airport does the sum bitch go nuts lolololol

[ND4SPD]

If I had to guess... I'd say somehow current is being induced in the laser detection circuit. The first time I had it happen, I covered up the laser sensor lens and it still did it.

[Cryptic]

a radar detector will pickup anything in that band of frequencies, but a radar gun is tuned to listen to only its own freq.

Otherwise you could just easily make an electronic counter measure. All you would need is something that broadcasts a frequency to "jam" the radar. Most likely every radar gun is unique and runs its own freq.

[lilws6]

if i am correct i believe most radar guns are calibrated to almost the smae frequency if I'm wrong correct me but they all come with the same tool as far as i know to calibrate them