Current Schmidt's Gas n Go project!!!!

[Smokey1226]

I'm really excited to annouce that i've been working on something for a good part the year, and as of late i've really went to town on it. For some of you its going to mean nothing but other guys (usually big turboed guys) this could be a great!!

It's not 100% complete just yet but were getting there. If everything works out like i hope, i'll be one of VERY VERY few Distributors of Ethanol E98 Fuel :thumbsup

Basically E98 is almost pure Ethanol, no BS added like some of the E85 at gas stations.

The reason Big turboed guys like it, is because its been proven over and over that it is equivilent to C16 and 1/4 of its price! Heres some Pros and Cons

Cons-
-Fuel system will need a big upgrade
-Large Fuel lines
-Big inectors This fuel uses about 30% more fuel than Gasoline (like Race gas)
-Its blend isnt as consistant as Race Fuel, but still not bad
-It will only come in Drums

Pros-
-The cooling effect on an engine is equivilent to Methanol
-Unlike Methanol however, this fuel isnt corrosive and wont need to be drained from your fuel lines at the end of the day
-Because of Ethanol, you can run extremely Rich and still make the same power as running the car lean. Which is great for tuneing. Rich is always better
-Cost....Typical Race fuel in the 115-116 Motor Octane Range is $12-$14/gallon This which has a motor octane of 115 +/- is in the $4.50/gal Range

- Depending on your application you can cut this fuel. Meaning add more Pumpgas to E98 and it will work its way down to E85/E80/E70 or whatever combo you want
-It's an Unleaded fuel!!! No harm to cats/Sensors
-Can be mixed with a leaded race fuel to get the advantages of both leaded fuels and Ethanol based fuels
-Last but not least.....Dyno's/Drag Racing/ect proved you can make HUGEEE power on E98.


-REVV Motorsports just dynoed 1300hp on their shop supra

-Titan Darin made 1100 on his supra

-Jessica barton made 985 on hers

-And many many 10.5W Drag Cars have went very low ET's on it!

I havent told anyone yet, so you guys are the first!

[juicedimpss]

what are the inconsistancies they are having with this and e-85? i havent researched it much but have heard folks talk about that.

[Sprayaway Fox]

Good to hear! GO TEAM!:banana

[Smokey1226]

what are the inconsistancies they are having with this and e-85? i havent researched it much but have heard folks talk about that.

The inconsistancies in any Ethanol based fuel is usually how exact it is. See what they do is take 100% Ethanol (Called Pure) then they add regualr pump fuel to the blend to get the consistancy to 85 parts Ethanol/15parts Gasoline

And because the fuel isnt that big yet, the DOT really isnt that hard on them getting it that close.

Meaning one batch you could have 80 parts Ethanol/20 Gas or 70/30 or as much as 90/10. It's never really Exact.

E98 isnt anywhere nearly as bad because they dont have to add BS detergents to it like E85. So E98 isnt nearly off as bad, but compared to a pure Race Gas (which typically is spot on every batch)

Also another thing i forgot to say was, E98 also has the effect like methanol of spooling turboed cars slightly quicker and helping make slightly more power on the big end.

[lasttimearound]

you said its not corrosive like e85? i guess im confused, i thought e85 was corrosive because of the ethanol? now you've peaked my interest

[Smokey1226]

you said its not corrosive like e85? i guess im confused, i thought e85 was corrosive because of the ethanol? now you've peaked my interest

Not corrosive like METHANOL.

[lasttimearound]

gotcha, wasnt there an issue with e85 and using certain parts in the fuel system? sorry, im learning as i go here.

[Flicktitty]

badass! should be fun! Good job on puttin all this time and effort into it. hopfully it works out for ya.

[Smokey1226]

gotcha, wasnt there an issue with e85 and using certain parts in the fuel system? sorry, im learning as i go here.

I've talked with quite a few guys as well as GM manufactors about their Flex-fuel fuel system setups.

And from what they said as well as other Drag Racers around the US that have beening useing E98 for a while now, is that over time if you have rubber lines it might get to them (meaning a couple years time). But usually when you get into the larger fuel lines in general they are Stainless or braided.

As far as it hurting fuel injectors or pumps that is false!

[Racer X79]

SWEET!! :thumbsup I've been running E85 in my Malibu since April, and I've been driving all the way to Burlington to get it. Any idea when you'll start selling the E98?

[lasttimearound]

alright, cool, i have a fuel rail thats annodized on the inside to protect against ethanol corrosion, its just my fuel line is braided, which means its rubber on inside, ill have to figure that part out. this might be perfect for me...

[Smokey1226]

alright, cool, i have a fuel rail thats annodized on the inside to protect against ethanol corrosion, its just my fuel line is braided, which means its rubber on inside, ill have to figure that part out. this might be perfect for me...

If your fuel line is already large enough to handle the extra fuel needed, i would just leave it. As when i talk to friend in the Supra crowd they are running the same lines your talking about and have had no problems.

In fact im going to try to find their posts and copy what they said for ya.. Be right back.

this is what i got from part of the forum, i will do more searching for you...

"along with braided teflon fuel lines, and also make sure any o-rings/gaskets are resistant to ethanol (100% neoprene should do the trick). one thing you have to be wary of is ethanol will clean any crap out of your tank, which can clog your fuel filter, so make sure you replace it after running your first few tanks of e85/E98. "

[DRK]

you'll have to run a lube in your fuel if you run pure ethanol as the gasoline in e85 acts as the lube

[Smokey1226]

you'll have to run a lube in your fuel if you run pure ethanol as the gasoline in e85 acts as the lube

There is Gasoline in E98. Not a ton, but enough to consist help lube your system. Also thats why we leave the option open for cutting. I can have drums (55gallon) order with any amount of E98 you wish. Lets say 45gallons. That leaves 10gallons extra room to add Pump gas to make up for it.

I asked about buying Pure 100% Ethanol, and you cant because being considered Liquour! lol

[boostaddict14]

Jessica Barton is Hot.

on another note this is cool. i hope it works out. And btw do you own the Shell?

[Smokey1226]

Jess Barton is sooooo hawt! And her car is amazing!

My Parents do, im just one of their slaves.

[WhatsADSM]

Smokey:
Just out of curiosity... why is the E98 so expensive? Standard E85 around WI is right around $3/gal now.

How come when you go from E10/E15 (regular gas) to E85 the cost goes down by a dollar, but then to get E98 the price goes UP $1.50/gal?

Also to those looking to convert for E85 (or higher):
Be careful for your lines (as mentioned before, I would suggest getting teflon ones). Also you will need significantly larger fuel components due to the significantly lower BTU content of E85 versus standard gas. So plan bigger injectors, pump(s), line(s), possibly regulators, possibly fuel rail.

Then comes the tuning. You will definately want to retune the car for the higher ethanol mix. Your ignition tuning can be a little more aggressive due to the higher octane, and of course due to all the fuel component changes you will need to retune the fuel as well.

Finally, I personally suggest changing your wideband to read in either lambda or converted to read AFRs for ethanol.... I think it silly to tune (partial throttle) for 14:7 on a gasoline converted wideband, when you are running ethanol. Does it work, yes, but its not telling you the real story.

[BAD LS1]

Ethanol STILL requires special materials in the fuel system to handle it... When it combined with water (which is gonna happen! Its alcohol which is hysdroscopic.) it becomes galvonic and goes to work on etching and bare metals other than stainless or chrome plated parts. Rubbers and plastics typically will have issues too unless specially made. Is it a cool idea to use this stuff as race gas, sure... Is it practical for a DD to use? Hell no.

[DRK]

anything built since 1987 is ethanol capable from the factory

[WhatsADSM]

anything built since 1987 is ethanol capable from the factory

This is how misinformation gets spread on the net... Careful what you say!

I'm sure they are all compatible with LOW PERCENTAGES of ethanol mixed with standard gasoline. This is the stuff we run everyday in our cars, E10/E15.

However everything post 1987 is NOT compatible with gasolines with HIGH PERCENTAGES of ethanol like E85 or E98.

[Karps TA]

anything built since 1987 is ethanol capable from the factory

Yes, like 10%, not higher, although I'm sure GM added a fudge factor. That's why GM has Flex Fuel E85 specific vehicles, because they changed materials on key components.

[WhatsADSM]

Yes, like 10%, not higher, although I'm sure GM added a fudge factor. That's why GM has Flex Fuel E85 specific vehicles, because they changed materials on key components.

QFT

Also for the flex fuel vehicles they retuned the PCMs, gave comparable sized engines bigger fuel systems, and an ethanol sensor in the tank.

[DRK]

but all components are ethanol capable. Many of us have been running e85 for some time in old vehicle with NO problems but you can keep believing what you all read on the web

[juicedimpss]

but all components are ethanol capable. Many of us have been running e85 for some time in old vehicle with NO problems but you can keep believing what you all read on the web

and you may not see the effects of the alcohol until after you need to take something apart. anything rubber will be junk.

it seems like a nice alternative fuel,im not sold on it being perfect.

[DRK]

Have you seen this yourself? Kurt ran it for 2-3years on his turbo'd fox and everything looked new when it came apart. The only problem I've seen with my own eyes has been the deterioration of fuel cell foam over time but race gas will do the same thing. I should take mine apart and post pics just for fun.

[CPonyGo]

Hopefully Ron Kurt will chime in...his 83 ran the e85 and was twin turbo'd...megasquirt tuned.

[juicedimpss]

Have you seen this yourself? Kurt ran it for 2-3years on his turbo'd fox and everything looked new when it came apart. The only problem I've seen with my own eyes has been the deterioration of fuel cell foam over time but race gas will do the same thing. I should take mine apart and post pics just for fun.

did he have any rubber hoses?
i have seen it on with e15 hardening the hoses on sleds and bikes.
i cant imagine e85/e98 is going to be any nicer to rubber.

[DRK]

sure it had the factory 5.0 fuel lines from the tank to the hard lines and the rubber or whatever around the fuel rails as does my vert and quite a few others I know of. Fuel inj. lines aren't your standard napa crap.
A customer just picked up one of the first C6-Rs available to the public they run E-85. We had them put a race fuel tune in it as E-85 is hard to get down south ie Daytona, Sebring. The GM engineers told us flat-out that if we left race fuel in the bladders over night they would leak as race fuel is more corrosive then E85 and they're 20 grand a pop.

[Karps TA]

I haven't seen it myself, however I work for an engine manufacturer who has done testing on it and they don't okay it. So that's enough for me.

Not too mention that I'd likely never run E85 ever in my car since it's near impossible to find in SE WI and when you do it's only pennies less then regular gas, which doesn't make up for the big loss in mileage. And I even have a flex fuel vehicle.

[juicedimpss]

sure it had the factory 5.0 fuel lines from the tank to the hard lines and the rubber or whatever around the fuel rails as does my vert and quite a few others I know of. Fuel inj. lines aren't your standard napa crap.
A customer just picked up one of the first C6-Rs available to the public they run E-85. We had them put a race fuel tune in it as E-85 is hard to get down south ie Daytona, Sebring. The GM engineers told us flat-out that if we left race fuel in the bladders over night they would leak as race fuel is more corrosive then E85 and they're 20 grand a pop.

what are the bladders made of?

[Racer X79]

I've run somewhere around 150-200 gallons of E85 through my Malibu(carbed/sbc) since April with no ill effects. All I did was switch the carb and that's it. I'm running AN lines and anodized fittings and an electric fuel pump, but I spoke to several people before I switched using completely stock fuel systems with modded carbs who had been running ethanol for a few years already with no corrosion of the rubber lines, steel lines, fuel pumps or fuel filters. I did alot of research before I jumped into it, and there are alot of myths out there. However, it will attack un-anodized aluminum fuel fittings and un-anodized aluminum fuel cells-but once it vaporizes and mixes with oxygen after the carb/injectors, it will not harm a aluminum intake or uncoated pistons.
For more info, check out www.e85performance.net or www.raceone85.com

[DurtyKurty]

Yeah, we've been down this road before. Tom has shown definitive proof that ethanol has an effect on certain parts. No doubt.

Like people have mentioned above, I ran it exclusively in a mustang for several years and showed no negative effect.

So, I guess I would say to anyone thinking of trying it... go for it. If your worried about it, run high octane gasoline, you'll make more power.

It smells cool btw. :)

[Smokey1226]

Ok let me sum some things up, E98 is def not for a DD car. It's made specifically as a alternitive Race fuel. its the same fuel the Indy cars ran for the special event.

Some more things, usually the guys who will be using this type of fuel ALREADY have HUGE stainless lines, very large injectors and mulitple pumps.

As far as price, here are some things to remember. NO ONE blends this fuel just out of the blue. We have to have it specially blended for us. So right there, they have to shut production down on one of their machines to blend (which in realtion to E85 sales) and very tiny batch for us. So right there cost is going to go up.

Then you add in, the cost of grain and all of the other stuff your going to see a increase over 85 parts ethanol to 98 parts ethanol. Thats close to 13% more ethanol right there.

Also, when you put in perspective E85 = 105oct and E98 = 115-116oct there of course is going to be a difference. When you go from a 105oct Race fuel to a 116oct Race fuel you see AT LEAST a $4/gallon increase.

Again- This is a fuel for Racers, not DD cars or any drag cars that arent going for big power. So for them.....Guys like Mr. Zimmer who go through VERY expensive Race fuel $14/gallon + to be able to make the same power and run the same times on a fuel that is $4.50/gallon and save all that money per gallon is going to pay off HUGE in the long run.

Another to make up for any possible blend issues, i rec. to most to have a drum filled to 50gallons E98 and add in 5gallons of C16. That combo alone gives you an absolutely incredibly Race Fuel for 1/3 of the price as full drum of C16.

[lordairgtar]

Is there a way to refine out the gasoline to get booze?:alcoholic:alcoholic:alcoholic

[Smokey1226]

Is there a way to refine out the gasoline to get booze?:alcoholic:alcoholic:alcoholic

lol, i know some people who know some people. We could make it happen :thumbsup





EDIT: This is another thing most big time racers are using to just make sure everything is perfect with the blends...

"GM Flex Sensor wired to a LCD Converter board to constantly monitor the blend in the tank"

That way it is constantly reading the what % Ethanol fuel is in the tank.

[Sprayaway Fox]

Buds 580 hp acura is E85. You need to go 1.5 times bigger on the injection system as a whole. Bigger Lines, pump, and injectors as a starting point and you'll be fine. Carbed applications the same, and special parts for carb. You will use more E85 than gas. AND yes, it does smell like french fries when he gets on it. Also invest in monitoring equip.:thumbsup

[Smokey1226]

Great point ^^^ Thats why im so for E98 over E85 as there is less of a chance for any inconsistancies with only 2% Gas versus 15% gas.

Either way, the GM monitoring LED this is awesome. Ill try to get a picture of it. Works like a charm!

[juicedimpss]

Great point ^^^ Thats why im so for E98 over E85 as there is less of a chance for any inconsistancies with only 2% Gas versus 15% gas.

Either way, the GM monitoring LED this is awesome. Ill try to get a picture of it. Works like a charm!

any idea what the cost of that sensor is?

[Smokey1226]

Im bot sure but im doing my homework right now.
Here is a video of a Probe with a 2JZ, big BW turbo + Spray on E98

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyx0YCgjVqM

[Windsors 03 Cobra]

The octane sensor for my 00 S10 was about $500 and dealer only, I think you can get a used S10 octane sensor on ebay for about $300.
E85 fuel filter for that same 00 S10 was $75 Vs. $10 for a non E85 00 S10.

[Smokey1226]

The octane sensor for my 00 S10 was about $500 and dealer only, I think you can get a used S10 octane sensor on ebay for about $300.
E85 fuel filter for that same 00 S10 was $75 Vs. $10 for a non E85 00 S10.

Thanks for the heads up! As i was searching but all i could find were the Ebay ones.

[WhatsADSM]

The octane sensor for my 00 S10 was about $500 and dealer only, I think you can get a used S10 octane sensor on ebay for about $300.
E85 fuel filter for that same 00 S10 was $75 Vs. $10 for a non E85 00 S10.

Can't be, a different part... All 1987+ cars were E85 ready off the bat.

:rolf :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Windsors 03 Cobra]

Can't be, a different part... All 1987+ cars were E85 ready off the bat.

:rolf :rolleyes::rolleyes:

LoL It didnt get replaced, currently at about 150k on the stock filter. :D
No problems with that little 00 S10 Xtreme truck save for a starter.

Anyone remember GASOHOL after the first oil crisis in the 70's ?
Saw this on a local blog.
For 35 years
We've talked, not acted, on oil.
OPEC is laughing

[Smokey1226]

Heres a link to the tool a lot of guys are using when checking the content in the drums.

http://www.etoolcart.com/fuelcompositiontester.aspx
They can be found on ebay.


I plan to purchase one and write on top of all our Drums what the content was when we drumed them up.:headbang

[1siksrt]

I knew about this a while ago and Im PUMPED!!!!!

[DRK]

Can't be, a different part... All 1987+ cars were E85 ready off the bat.

:rolf :rolleyes::rolleyes:

um yeah....:alcoholic...... actually the difference is one is a wideband and one is narrowband, hence the cost.

It has nothing to do with fuel capability. GM uses the wideband for the flex fuel tune not because the narrow band is not E85 compatible.

[WhatsADSM]

um yeah....:alcoholic...... actually the difference is one is a wideband and one is narrowband, hence the cost.

It has nothing to do with fuel capability. GM uses the wideband for the flex fuel tune not because the narrow band is not E85 compatible.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Plain and simple.

It's a lot more than just the 02 sensor. Windsor even posted above that the fuel filter (among many things) is different.

[DRK]

You have no idea what you are talking about. Plain and simple.



I guess I'll just run my 13:1 motor on this useless $3.30 fuel then with my STOCK (except larger pump & inj) 1992 fuel system and hope I don't trip over anything in the dark :rolf