Drilling won't lower oil prices?

[Prince Valiant]

Think again.

How fickle is the market? When President Bush lifted the white house executive order restricting off-shore drilling, the price per barrel dropped 9$ immediately. This is impressive not necessarily because of anything Bush did per se...it's impressive that the price was so fickle that it dropped significantly despite the fact that much still stands in the way; the still present Congressional ban, respective state gov't approvals, and of course, the time it'd take to actually begin drilling...but the price drop reflected the nature of the futures market and the speciousness of the arguments of those who say "We can't drill our way out of this one"

So despite THREE HUGE obstacles remaining (actually one huge, and 20 small ones, and one that's just time consuming), the price had a significant drop just on the small threat of having increased supply in the future.

It shows a few of things:

1. Claims that increased supplies not being the solution to high gas prices NOW are in fact, FALSE. They've always claimed that we wouldn't see any benifit for at least 10 years, however, it neglects that the spot price today also reflects a bet that future supplies will be even tighter and therefore more expensive. Knowing that the supplies will be ensured in the future lowers the spot price today.

(spot price is the current price...basically it works like this: 1. Price is trading for 100/barrel 2. I figure it'll probably be a good bit more, like 150 bucks/barrel in the future, so I go to buy it now and plan to sell in the future. 3. I'm not the only one who figures this out, so I have to compete for barrels of oil NOW, thus driving the price NOW up higher than the previous 100/barrel 4. That higher price now (say 125/barrel) is referred to as the "spot price" and is why our prices are so high NOW...there, the futures market in short. Is it a bad thing? Not really...it moderates our usage now due to high price ensuring future supply).

2. It's also proof how overbid the market is...it's a bubble, that more than 100% overvalued. While price is going in the 145-136 range now, it should only be valued 65-75/barrel now...so hopefully, HOPEFULLY, the bubble will burst and the futures market will collapse.

3. Despite all the talk of conservation, the futures market IS and HAS been betting against it all along...there is little fear from promises of new technologies since those investments would take not just 10 years...but perhaps 30 or more to pay off...and then, there's a good chance that it might not pan out...and even if it does, supplies will certainly be tighter in the future if we don't explore for new supplies NOW.

Of course, how can we help this collapse? Get on the phone or email your reps in congress...I'd say senators too, however Kohl/Fiengold NEVER go against their party's line of no more drilling. Put pressure on them to make some noise to expand drilling. Off-shore, ANWR, expansion of shale harvesting whatever...if even a few more people in power make some noise, the futures market can collapse as it has 3 times previously...Do it.

There will still be threats to future supply...namely as one middle east hot-spot cools off (Iraq), a new one emerges (Iran)...but still, it'll be better to have our know even if supplies are interrupted, we can off-set that with our own supplies.

[BOSS LX]

Wow, I agree with you.

I was just reading how the oil prices dropped $9.00, just because Bush lifted the restriction of off-shore drilling. This means NOTHING with our current congress.
I strongly believe the bubble will burst in the not so distant future.

Contacting Kohl and Fiengold is a big waste of time. Hopefully in the coming elections, things will change!

[Prince Valiant]

Even more important is that hopefully congress can simply let the ban expire as it's slated to do on september 30th of this year.

Hell, this makes me want to sell the insight!

[BOSS LX]

Even more important is that hopefully congress can simply let the ban expire as it's slated to do on september 30th of this year.

Hell, this makes me want to sell the insight!

So if it expires, that is the green light?


If this happens, $2.00 a gallon gas will be back!

[PureSound15]

Exactly, even some of the OPEC nations stated that if the bubble were to burst it would be down to $70/barrel easily. I cannot find the article, but the quote was the same day that Bush lifted the ban.



Way to go democratic congress.... let's fix this problem by doing nothing with it at all, it'll just go away. A CEO of an alternative energy research company was quoted saying that some of the funding for their research had been reallocated to help with the unsightly fuel cost. Ironic, almost.

[PureSound15]

Chavez also said oil prices were being influenced by a "speculative bubble", the collapse of which could send prices as low as $70 per barrel.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/25670209

An entire onslaught of articles about "The bubble breaking" today. I do hope that gets people to stop the "recession" craze. Not that I don't think people are keeping a bit more in the bank but... whatever. :violin

[70challenger452]

I suprised the government has actually done something, I've just kinda been thinking this whole crisis was some big joke to them, because we all know how much we love to piss of friends and co-workers, I just assumed the government loved to piss off the american people, purely for self entertainment

[Yooformula]

I wont listen to a word chavez says. This is the same guy that goes to different countries to promote communism and his exploits to undermine our economy with his gas stations....CITGO! Not only will the towel heads NOT help you if you need it but I wont give a dime of my hard earned money to them!

[Smokey1226]

Think again.

How fickle is the market? When President Bush lifted the white house executive order restricting off-shore drilling, the price per barrel dropped 9$ immediately. This is impressive not necessarily because of anything Bush did per se...it's impressive that the price was so fickle that it dropped significantly despite the fact that even with removal of the white house executive order (a hold over from Carters days), there are still bans from congress in effect that bush's moves have no effect on, and most state Governors have kept in effect the state bans on further drilling off each states respective coast. Price dropped from 145 to 136 simply from the suggestion that we should drill more.

So despite TWO HUGE obstacles remaining (actually one huge, and 20 small ones), the price had a significant drop just on the threat of having increased supply in the future.

It shows a few of things:

1. Claims that increased supplies not being the solution to high gas prices NOW are in fact, FALSE. They've always claimed that we wouldn't see any benifit for at least 10 years, however, it neglects that the spot price today also reflects a bet that future supplies will be even tighter and therefore more expensive. Knowing that the supplies will be ensured in the future lowers the spot price today.

(spot price is the current price...basically it works like this: 1. Price is trading for 100/barrel 2. I figure it'll probably be a good bit more, like 150 bucks/barrel in the future, so I go to buy it now and plan to sell in the future. 3. I'm not the only one who figures this out, so I have to compete for barrels of oil NOW, thus driving the price NOW up higher than the previous 100/barrel 4. That higher price now (say 125/barrel) is referred to as the "spot price" and is why our prices are so high NOW...there, the futures market in short. Is it a bad thing? Not really...it moderates our usage now due to high price ensuring future supply).

2. It's also proof how overbid the market is...it's a bubble, that more than 100% overvalued. While price is going in the 145-136 range now, it should only be valued 65-75/barrel now...so hopefully, HOPEFULLY, the bubble will burst and the futures market will collapse.

3. Despite all the talk of conservation, the futures market IS and HAS been betting against it all along...there is little fear from promises of new technologies since those investments would take not just 10 years...but perhaps 30 or more to pay off...and then, there's a good chance that it might not pan out...and even if it does, supplies will certainly be tighter in the future if we don't explore for new supplies NOW.

Of course, how can we help this collapse? Get on the phone or email your reps in congress...I'd say senators too, however Kohl/Fiengold NEVER go against their party's line of no more drilling. Put pressure on them to make some noise to expand drilling. Off-shore, ANWR, expansion of shale harvesting whatever...if even a few more people in power make some noise, the futures market can collapse as it has 3 times previously...Do it.


Next time i run into you, im going to shake your hand, hell ill even slap your ass! I agree 110% with everything you said. :thumbsup



I wont listen to a word chavez says. This is the same guy that goes to different countries to promote communism and his exploits to undermine our economy with his gas stations....CITGO! Not only will the towel heads NOT help you if you need it but I wont give a dime of my hard earned money to them!

Couldnt agree more!!! Fawk that hom0 i wont spend a Dime at any Citgo station ever. We had the guy who owned our station before us, change from Citgo to Shell before we would buy simply for that reason! :headbang

[lordairgtar]

The recession talk going on kind of makes you think that certain entities want a recession. Isn't like two consecutive quarters of negative growth called a recession? We've had a slowing of growth, but no negative growth yet. I know my Roth looks like crap right now but as I keep putting in the same amount every paycheck, it buys more shares of the funds at a lower rate. When the funds increase in value, I'll have that much more shares. It happened the last time it went Bear market. When it went bull, the value jumped a lot more than I lost.

[Cryptic]

$20 dollar fill-ups here we come :dance

[Smokey1226]

$20 dollar fill-ups here we come :dance

O believe me I wish.


Im with airguitar- I've lost quite a bit of money on my Roth account as well. But i just bought a bunch of shares 2 days ago after that big down day. I will bet $1k dollars that their are people trying to drive it down even lower. Everyone i've ever ran into when dealing with Stocks/Bonds/Mutal Funds (that is older) all have said if they knew what the market was going to do back in the day they would of spent every penny they had and boughten in. Now they would be very wealthy. Well, that time is here. Merryl Lynch was one of the hottest stocks, now its down more that 140% from its high. When the banks get back on their feet people are going to make HUGEEEEEE Money.

[BOSS LX]

If you want a good deal on a truck, buy now!:thumbsup


At least I hope so!

[lordairgtar]

Now if I could get the kids to listen to me. All they wanna spend money on is DVDs, and their World Of Warcraft account.

[Smokey1226]

lol take part of their "allowance" or whatever they get, buy in once this "fuel issue bubble" pops, and they will be thanking you later.

[Breecher_7]

I believe nothing till I see it. Ill do the happy dance later.......

[Prince Valiant]

So if it expires, that is the green light? Then the next thing that has to happen is that each coastal state also has to lift their respective bans...to get every state to agree would be near impossible. But for a few significant states to begin to allow it would make a huge difference.

The two biggie's would be FL and CA since neither are allowing it at this point and each have the two biggest coastal lines in the US, and subsequently, the largest proven reserves off their coast.

CA is even more significant since it still has many of the platforms off it's coast that are sitting over the oil right now...in the shallowest waters. If they lifted it's ban, they could be producing oil within 1 year. CA has over 10 billion barrels of proven reserves plus more yet to be explored, and untold trillions of cubic feet of natural gas.

There is a problem though...The govenator Arnie is opposed to lifting the ban. It's an easy position to take now since he's not the only one in the way...if the congressional ban expires however, it'll be harder to do. However, he IS in California...a fairly liberal and eco-freakish state (see CARB) so he might elect to continue it.

Gov Crist of FL used to be strongly opposed, but has moderated his position to that of maybe for the time being. If push cam to shove, he'd allow it since the chinese are already drilling closer of his coast than the state/Fed allow US companies to drill.

Oh, and while the current price should be in the 65-75 dollar range, a bubble bursting/crash could send it even lower than that...especially if after the burst there are increased supplies. 40 bucks a barrel maybe? A new refinery coming on-line in 5-6 years? Who knows...things could go right for once.

[SmokinRAM114]

If you want a good deal on a truck, buy now!:thumbsup


At least I hope so!

yea ur ford f150's are $16,000 OFF right off the get go no if ands or buts:wow

[SmokinRAM114]

I believe nothing till I see it. Ill do the happy dance later.......

x2 i could only wish i could afford racing again........ im going on vacation next week to farm at my families farms (sum vacation huh) and its going to cost roughly $600 round trip in fuel not including what i use there........:rolleyes:

[Nix]

I believe nothing till I see it. Ill do the happy dance later.......


I couldn't agree more.

[Prince Valiant]

Not telling anyone to do a happy dance...much less buy a truck. Simply imploring people to write/call your congressman.

[Karps TA]

I'm no Democrat, but you can't blame this all on them. Sure they should lift the ban now. But the short sightedness of our govt the last 30 years has put us in the position. We always to to react to situations instead of being proactive.

For example how familiar does this look?


1. The House Ways and Means Committee approved a tougher tax or oil-company "windfall" profits than Jimmy Carter had proposed. The President's plan would have let oil companies keep 29¢ to 34¢ of each extra dollar in profit that they make from the decontrol of domestic oil prices that Carter began June 1. The Ways and Means bill reduces the figure to between 17¢ and 23¢. It is likely to be watered down in the Senate, and end about where Carter wanted it.

2. Congressional Democratic leaders at a White House breakfast told Carter that they are uniting behind a plan offered by Representative Toby Moffett of Connecticut to force every driver to choose one day a week on which he would leave his car or cars in the garage (windshield stickers would identify the forbidden day). They also invited Carter to work with them in devising a new gas-rationing plan. Said House Democratic Whip John Brademas of Indiana: "In effect, we told the President, 'The train is leaving the station; would you like to get aboard?' "

3. A consensus is building behind the idea of setting up a Government funding for a crash effort to produce synthetic fuels in the U.S., even if other nations will not go along. A House education and labor subcommittee last week approved a synthetic-fuels bill, blandly ignoring the fact that it has no jurisdiction in the matter. Chairman Henry ("Scoop") Jackson called the Senate Energy Committee together at the unheard-of hour of 7 a.m. last Wednesday to start work on his own synthetic-fuels bill. Said Scoop: "People who never saw the sun rise are now getting up before dawn to buy gasoline. We are getting started a little later than that." Both House and Senate leaders are promising floor votes on synthetic-fuels bills in July The leading possibility is a House proposal to have the Government guarantee a market and a price tc synthetic-fuels makers al a cost of $2 billion a year.


That was written back in July of 1979. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,916817-1,00.html

Our govt excels at the duct tape method of governing. Just fix it enough to get by, and worrying about it breaking later.

[Silver03SRT]

My dad is friends with the owner of dodge city and he said they are giving 40% off on trucks right now and 20% with 0% financing. They are just trying to get rid of them. I honestly wont believe $2/ gallon until it comes. I want it but dont think it will happen. We will be lucky to see $3/gallon

[Prince Valiant]

I'm no Democrat, but you can't blame this all on them. Sure they should lift the ban now. But the short sightedness of our govt the last 30 years has put us in the position. We always to to react to situations instead of being proactive.

For example how familiar does this look?



That was written back in July of 1979. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,916817-1,00.html

Our govt excels at the duct tape method of governing. Just fix it enough to get by, and worrying about it breaking later.

It proves that gov't is essentially completely clueless about managing our energy supplies and if anything, is only good at getting in the way. It also proves democrats and carter were 'tards. As a matter of fact, there was nothing in there that even remotely addressed the problem then...and that windfall tax killed the domestic production capability more than anything. Yet we have candidates out there talking about "new" approaches nowadays?!? c'mon :rolleyes:

Quite literally, the federal gov't WANTS high prices...though they'd say they don't. But remember the saying "actions speak louder than words?"

By barring billions and billions of barrels of oil, taxing it extensively at the federal and state level, over regulating the refinery industry until it has become nearly impossible to build a new one, what did gov't THINK would happen to the price of energy?

There are quite a few politicians that seemed to get this before however...I can understand why this wasn't politically expedient in the 80's and 90's, as relatively cheap gas was commonplace. But late 99 and into the early 2000's, when prices WERE going up, there was a move to expand domestic production. Made perfect sense then as it does even more so now. A plan WAS put forth to expand off-shore drilling, open up ANWR, improve natural gas production, etc...but Democrats united in it's defeat, along with a choice few Republicans (RINO's at that). The results? We have the prices the gov't basically wanted for us through their failed policies.

[ND4SPD]

Actually... we can. It's been the Democrats that have been stonewalling drilling and expanded refining for the past 20 years. Yes, GHW Bush caved to the environmental lobby and signed the executive order that prohibited off-shore drilling, but as far as the congressional issues go... it's been the libs in congress catering to groups like the Sierra Club that have allowed prices to soar.

By the way, if you write Kohl or Feingold all you're going to get back is a form letter that basically says that "we can't drill our way out of this problem, only alternative energy is the answer". Neither of them care about the needs or the plight of the people they represent. Feingold has also gone on record as touting the lie that "the oil companies currently hold XX million acres and aren't doing anything on them so why should they be given more?" Which of course is a gross mischaracterization of the truth (which is, basically there's either no, or not enough oil on those lands for it to be worth drilling for.


I'm no Democrat, but you can't blame this all on them. Sure they should lift the ban now. But the short sightedness of our govt the last 30 years has put us in the position. We always to to react to situations instead of being proactive.

For example how familiar does this look?



That was written back in July of 1979. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,916817-1,00.html

Our govt excels at the duct tape method of governing. Just fix it enough to get by, and worrying about it breaking later.

[Prince Valiant]

Feingold has also gone on record as touting the lie that "the oil companies currently hold XX million acres and aren't doing anything on them so why should they be given more?" Which of course is a gross mischaracterization of the truth (which is, basically there's either no, or not enough oil on those lands for it to be worth drilling for.Don't forget...with enhanced drilling techniques, we don't require nearly as many drills/pumps to recover oil in those lands either...which gives the illusion of underutilization, which is what the lie really is about.

...but you are absolutely right. Oil companies make zero dollars (and actually LOSE billions) by sitting on leased lands that could otherwise be drilled for oil. If it was there, they'd seek a return on that investment...if there motive was as nefarious as Fiengold suggest, they wouldn't have leased the land in the first place.

[johnny--2k]

I literally jumped up in the air when I heard about the price drop. If this happens, and we get down to under $100 per barrel, my beater car is gonna be another SUV....I'm so excited!!!!

[Prince Valiant]

I literally jumped up in the air when I heard about the price drop. If this happens, and we get down to under $100 per barrel, my beater car is gonna be another SUV....I'm so excited!!!!Don't wait for something to change...go to write your congressman/woman today! Implore friends too as well! Then hope for that bubble to burst.

[Karps TA]

Write them also with your votes in upcoming elections. Get rid of the encumbants who didn't do anything to fix the problem.

In spite of all of this hub bub about drilling I do think it's a strange coincidence that a President who was an ex domestic oil man, is getting ready to leave office right as oil is setting record pricing, and there's a movement to allow domestic drilling again. Talk about setting yourself up nicely for the future. He may not have the brains to create millions by Global Warming like Gore did, or the charisma and speaking ability to go on the speaking circuit like Clinton. But he's still able to make money.

[GRM-REPR]

[QUOTE=Karps TA;405750]I'm no Democrat, but you can't blame this all on them. Sure they should lift the ban now. But the short sightedness of our govt the last 30 years has put us in the position. We always to to react to situations instead of being proactive.

I'm 100% with you on this statement. Everyone keeps blaming China, India and Opec. No, blame our U.S government. They are the ones responsible for our country's well being and they have pissed on it for too long.

Our government is so damn greedy, we import more than we export. That includes sweet crude. Instead of our country back in the 70's exploring more places to explore oil wells, we shut down refineries. Instead of our country giving businesses more opportunities and breaks here, they force them to leave the country to make more profit somewhere else.

Our government is so ridiculous, they thought it was genius to use parts of our damn food supply to make shitty gas that takes 2x as much "normal" fuel to make 1 gallon of useless E85 type gas that doesn't even respond well in engines; not to mention the recent studies on it and revealing it has done nothing to better our environment. Also it is now thought to be more toxic.

All those tree hugging hippies and fagz out there need to shut their damn mouths and realize drilling IS the best interm answer. While we do that, we can enjoy lower gas prices, the way it should be. Raise you hand if you remember 7-8 years ago if gas prices would be so jittery. No hands would be raised. However; today we can watch the price jump 15 cents and then it takes 3 weeks to drop 5 cents. Too much speculation.

Drill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:chair:

[Karps TA]

I would love to see a break down of oil companies charitable contributions. I have a feeling buried in their is some tie to the Sierra Club and other treehugging organizations. Oil companies don't wan't domestic drilling cause cheap oil is not good for their business. When oil was $20-30 a barrel they were losing money and had to all combine. They are loving these high prices. And I would be willing to bet for every $1 they spend lobbying for drilling, there's $2-3 spent lobbying against it indirectly. The people running those companies are not stupid.

[Prince Valiant]

Talk about setting yourself up nicely for the future.That doesn't work on even a casual level...one of the first things that was worked on when he took office in 2001 was to have Cheney come out with a new energy policy that included ANWR/offshore/expansion of refining capacity/expansion of natural gas stores and use. It failed due to the unison of democrats and the few RINO republicans.

Cheney was correct then in saying that while conservation is indeed part of the solution, it by itself won't help much...you can't conserve your way out of a shortage.

[GRM-REPR]

Our county as a whole needs to be more informed. Too many people just go along with what the politicians say and don't do any research into our crisis. In America, people think it's ok to pay $4+ for a gallon of gas. Well I don't. It's always a blame game in this country and we are never wrong (I use we loosely).

[Prince Valiant]

Oil companies don't wan't domestic drilling cause cheap oil is not good for their business. When oil was $20-30 a barrel they were losing money and had to all combine. They are loving these high prices. And I would be willing to bet for every $1 they spend lobbying for drilling, there's $2-3 spent lobbying against it indirectly. The people running those companies are not stupid.This doesn't make sense...

1. If they can't drill, they can't sell and they make less. Why give away market share?

2. Nope, domestic oil companies have essentially always been profitable...and due to volume, always made fairly stout profits despite narrow profit margins. They're were many mergers in the 90's to reduce overhead and administrative cost thus enhancing profitability and due to stock prices being relatively low...but for even in thin times recorded profits in the 10's of billions.

[Karps TA]

I disagree with you. When they were merging they cried to the govt about how they were losing money, and that merging was the only way they could survive. I know this cause I was doing a whole lot of reading into them due to the govt having a hissy fit over Sat radio merging, but they allowed Exxon Mobile to merge in under a year. The oil companies cried that they would be out of business because of oil being so cheap and plentiful.

I bet you thought Enron was running on the up and up as well? Don't underestimate the greed of people. With all the talk of alternative energy, they'd just as soon make as much now, allowing them to get their claws deeper into the alternative energy sources so should anything happen to oil, they still survive.

[animal]

Heh, writing OUR congressmen will do about as much good as writing a letter to this man to ask for more oil:

http://images.forbes.com/images/2002/09/13/jr.jpg

Ok, it may or may not help writing hoardes of letters to unreasonable people, but how often can you post up a picture of J.R. and have it turn out in any way relevant to discussion :P

[ND4SPD]

A lot of people have forgotten the SUV-crazed 90s where oil was <$40/bbl and yes the domestic oil companies were losing money hand over fist bcause it was costing $60/bbl to produce it. It is in the domestic oil companies interest to expand domestic drilling because then they can EXPORT more to growing economies like China and India. There's not going to be any shortage of demand in the future for oil... trust me. Even if we go all hybrid/alternate energy here, developing nations aren't going to be able to afford those technologies for decades. Hell, how many middle-class families here can afford $70,000 for a Yukon hybrid? Hell, if you have more than 2 kids a Prius is no longer much of an option.

[SmokinRAM114]

the ****** tree huggers want you to do nothing but come home from work and sit in your house and do nothing. walk if you gota go anywhere. WTF is GLOBAL WARMING? we had a 40* night in JULY!! some warming there! no body can afford to do anything they want to, hell even my boss who owns a 5 million dollar company is complaining, its not just middle class thats suffering. before long there isnt going to be any contruction buisnesses cuz they all ran into the ground, due to the fact of fuel prices raising the hourly rate and buisness not being able to afford a service call.

[GRM-REPR]

As Chris stated earlier, there are more obstacles to cross, even though Bush lifted the ban on off shore drilling.

We have human hurdles to cross, namely "green people" (I am sick of all this going green crap). Once again the tree huggers come out of their caves and tell us (the people that make the Earth go round') that we can't drill because it's not the answer or we will hurt our environment.

A.If they did any research, they would know that well over 70% of the oil discharge polluting our environments is from natural cracks in the ocean's crust. Even the Exxon tanker that crashed paled in comparison to what the Earth secretes every day.

B. Don't we have casualties in war where the innocent die? Sadly we do, however, drilling in places where an elk or two might die is part of the program. With technology as great as it is today, drililng in places where oil is thought to be most plentiful, accidents are much less likely to happen.

These close minded individuals or groups don't look at the bigger picture. Maybe we should somehow ban lightning from thunder storms because it too creates massive amounts of ozone. Oh but wait, Al Gore didn't include that interesting tid-bit in his shitty video's. Our governent constantly places blame on everyone outside of this country when in reality, most of the damage is caused from within it. We shut the refineries down, we put bans on oil explorations and we decided it would be ok if we became even more greedy and imported more than we exported. Didn't anyone pay attention to the early 70's with the first gas crunch? They messed it all up from that point on by sucking from the nipple of other countries we don't even get along with.

My 2 cents....

[ND4SPD]

the ****** tree huggers want you to do nothing but come home from work and sit in your house and do nothing. walk if you gota go anywhere. WTF is GLOBAL WARMING? we had a 40* night in JULY!! some warming there! no body can afford to do anything they want to, hell even my boss who owns a 5 million dollar company is complaining, its not just middle class thats suffering. before long there isnt going to be any contruction buisnesses cuz they all ran into the ground, due to the fact of fuel prices raising the hourly rate and buisness not being able to afford a service call.


Oh, haven't you heard? Gore & Co. are now saying that Global Warming is going to take a 15 to 50 year hiatus (obviously they're trying to explain why the global avg temp hasn't increased in 10 years)... but we're still doomed if we don't hamstring our economy and cut CO2 emissions by 50% in 10 years.:rolleyes:

[GRM-REPR]

Oh, haven't you heard? Gore & Co. are now saying that Global Warming is going to take a 15 to 50 year hiatus (obviously they're trying to explain why the global avg temp hasn't increased in 10 years)... but we're still doomed if we don't hamstring our economy and cut CO2 emissions by 50% in 10 years.:rolleyes:

This is all I have to say on the "issue" of global warming.

Our last winter in Wisconsin......enough said

[johnny--2k]

or the beginning of most of this summer? nights were in the 50's well into June!!!

[Prince Valiant]

I disagree with you. When they were merging they cried to the govt about how they were losing money, and that merging was the only way they could survive. No, incorrect...in both 98 and 99 in the two years prior to their merger the amount of profit either company saw was roughly 2.5-4.9 billion on a total annual revenue of ~38-48 billion dollars. Dismal in the face of today's profit and total revenue amounts, and down from the 5-10 billion they did in normal markets as opposed to down-turned markets.

The reason for the merger was to certainly to increase their profitability by streamlining administrative and infrastructure cost...which it most certainly did. Their profit margins were so small, it would have been easy to find themselves in the red.

[Breecher_7]

x2 i could only wish i could afford racing again........ im going on vacation next week to farm at my families farms (sum vacation huh) and its going to cost roughly $600 round trip in fuel not including what i use there........:rolleyes:

:rolf

If $2 Diesel comes back I will FILL your truck.... :thumbsup

Thats how sure It wont happen I am. :rolf

[Z28Envy]

I didn't watch all of this but it was pretty interesting anyway. Not sure if any of it is true but I do believe it some what.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147&hl=en

[SmokinRAM114]

:rolf

If $2 Diesel comes back I will FILL your truck.... :thumbsup

Thats how sure It wont happen I am. :rolf

:rolf:rolf we can only dream

[Crawlin]

40% off they are gonna run on a Dodge Ram Diesel 2500 as an advertisement I heard from one of the local dodge stores ;)

[lordairgtar]

:rolf

If $2 Diesel comes back I will f*ck your truck.... :thumbsup

Thats how sure It wont happen I am. :rolf
Fixed it:rolf

[Berettaspeed]

damn tree huggers crying about everything. its them causing these high ass prices!!!

[Breecher_7]

40% off they are gonna run on a Dodge Ram Diesel 2500 as an advertisement I heard from one of the local dodge stores ;)

Chris, where are you working now? How the hell can they offer 40% off and not loose there ass? There is not that kind of mark up on them, not even close.