Todays Economy?

[88Nightmare]

So with what I've been reading in the paper, who else thinks America's economy is currently in a recession? Give some supporting reasons, I think this could be a decent thread :thumbsup

[pOrk]

Your light bar is gay

[88Nightmare]

what if my lightbar single handedly caused americas economy to crash? :stare

[pOrk]

Its possible, it is THAT gay! Come help me pull the stainless rockers off

[Cutlass Queen]

I hope we go into a recession because the prices on everything is absolutely ridiculous :chair: We better get someone good in the white house

[pOrk]

^ That has little to do with it.

[Poncho]

I hope we go into a recession because the prices on everything is absolutely ridiculous :chair: We better get someone good in the white house

yea, cuz we need to lose jobs.

It sucks now, I'm stuck where I am cuz the market is totally junk.

[jbiscuit]

gas prices are out of control which affects nearly EVERY good that you buy.
housing prices/values suck
job market sucks.

I'd say we are in a recession.

[Nix]

I hope we go into a recession because the prices on everything is absolutely ridiculous :chair: We better get someone good in the white house


Not possible, they all suck major cornhole.:( We're fuked... :wooo

[H8RADE]

Your light bar is gay

Mount some speakers from a wakeboard tower up there and complete the look.
Maybe one of those propeller receiver plugs?
:goof

[jbiscuit]

I personally like the nutsacks that hang off the trailer hitch. Wow what a cool idea.

[97z2801ss]

people are not bying big ticket items.
and are spending less.

[Karps TA]

I'd say we've been in a recession for quite a while.

[Waver]

people are not bying big ticket items.
and are spending less.

That is because prices go up but the businesses dont want to make wages go up to reflect that.

[Karps TA]

If business raise the wages, then they have to raise the prices to account for that. It's not like profit margins are up. The reason for so many price increases is raw materials are way up.

[H8RADE]

The world economy will slow sharply this year, according to an International Monetary Fund forecast, with the United States sliding into a recession amid housing, credit and financial slumps.

The IMF, in a World Economic Outlook released Wednesday, slashed growth projections for the United States - the epicenter of the woes - and the global economy as a whole.

Economic growth in the United States is expected to slow to a crawl of just 0.5% this year, which would mark the worst pace in 17 years, when the country last suffered through a recession, the IMF said. The United States won't fare much better next year; the IMF projected the U.S. economy will grow by a feeble 0.6% in 2009.

"The U.S. economy will tip into a mild recession in 2008 as the result of mutually reinforcing cycles in the housing and financial markets," the IMF said.

Many private economists and members of the U.S. public believe the country has already fallen into its first recession since 2001. For the first time, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke acknowledged last week that a recession was possible.

The big shrink
An increasing number of analysts think the U.S. economy, which grew by 2.2% in 2007, started shrinking in the first three months of this year and is still contracting. Under one rough rule, if the economy contracts for six straight months it is considered to be in a recession. A panel of experts at the National Bureau of Economic Research that determines when U.S. recessions begin and end, however, uses a broader definition, taking into account income, employment and other barometers.

To limit the damage, the Federal Reserve has been slashing interest rates since last September and has taken a number of extraordinary measures to avert a financial meltdown, which would have dire consequences for the U.S. economy.

"The financial market crisis that erupted in August 2007 has developed into the largest financial shock since the Great Depression," the IMF declared.

Problems started in the United States with risky "subprime" mortgages made to people with blemished credit and quickly spread into other areas, hitting more creditworthy borrowers. Foreclosures in the U.S. hit record highs and financial companies racked up multibillion-dollar losses as mortgage-backed investments soured with the collapse of the U.S. housing market.

The fallout gripped investors on Wall Street and in other countries, creating a panicky atmosphere that threatened to paralyze financial markets in the United States and beyond.

Global projections
Against that backdrop, the IMF now expects the world economy, which grew by a hardy 4.9% last year, to lose considerable momentum. The fund is projecting the global economy to grow by 3.7% this year and 3.8% next year.

"The global expansion is losing speed in the face of a major financial crisis," the IMF said.

There's a risk that things could turn worse, it cautioned.

"The IMF now sees a 25% chance that global growth will drop to 3% or less in 2008 and 2009 - equivalent to a global recession," the fund said. "The greatest risk comes from the still-unfolding events in financial markets, particularly the potential for deep losses" on complex investments linked to the U.S. subprime mortgage market, the IMF said.

Looking at other countries, the IMF trimmed its projection for Germany, with economic growth slowing to 1.4% this year and weakening to 1% in 2009. In Britain, growth will slow to 1.6% this year and next. France also will see growth decelerate to 1.4% this year and 1.2% next year.

Japan's economy will expand by 1.4% this year and 1.5% next year, which would mark a loss of momentum from last year. Canada's growth would slow to 1.3% this year and pick up slightly to 1.9% next year.

Global powerhouse China, which barreled ahead at an 11.4% pace last year, would see growth moderate to 9.3% this year and then strengthen a bit to 9.5% next year. India, which grew by a blistering 9.2% last year, is expected to grow by 7.9% this year and 8% next year. Russia, which logged growth of 8.1% last year, will see growth moderate to 6.8% this year and then 6.3% next year.

While the IMF is worried about the dangers of weakening global economic growth, it also expressed concern about the potential for inflation to heat up around the world, given sharp increases in energy and other commodity prices. "Risks related to inflationary pressures have risen," the fund said.

[Car Guy]

^^^ Well after reading that I would like to change my vote to PANCAKES...!!! :stare :stare :stare






:3gears: :3gears: :3gears:

[lit666]

I voted pancakes but only because I'm hungry atm. As far as getting a good president I can tell that there wont' be one for the next 4 years.

[Z28Roxy]

Absolutely in the shitter.

But there will always be naysayers.

[Voodoo Chick]

Gas prices are going sky-high, jobs are hard to find if you want more than 8 bucks an hour, prices on everything is going up....yeah, I'd say we are in at least some kind of big trouble economically.....

[wikked]

I have Asian fever.

[Z28Roxy]

I have Asian fever.

Shouldn't be yellow fever? :confused

Oh and I want pancakes.

[Nix]

I love lamp. :thumbsup

[Prince Valiant]

I wouldn't say a recession...yet. Since it's two quarters of a shrinking economy is required to be termed a "recession", and that hasn't occured yet.

However, it is one of those things that we actually don't know how the economy actually did until a year or so after the fact...much of what is reported on a "real time" basis are based on estimates and indicators. So even if it's reported that the economy grew every quarter this year, then it may prove later that they were inaccurate estimates and we actually WERE in a recession.

While recession can suck in the short-term, long term they are a neccessary part of the economic cycle...it's like trimming the fat, the excess, the bad...everything that was holding the economy back.

It's like the housing market...sure, prices in MOST market's have dropped, buying had slowed...but truth be told, the market was bloated, prices for most houses were WAY over-priced, hence the extreme slow-down in buying. Most correctly figured that this was crazy and a drop would come, and stopped buying.

In many market's though, where percipitous drops have occured (again, local market here is different), existing home sales have increased as of late as a response to the falling prices...IE, those markets are finding their "bottom" and will soon recover.

Oil prices will do much of the same thing...people have bid up the futures market on oil, but soon, people are going to say "this can't continue like this" and there will be a dramatic drop on the price of oil.

What is affecting people the MOST however, has little to do with whether the economy is in a "recession" or during a period of growth...and it's called "stagflation". Basically, the price of everyday living needs (Food & gas) have gone up, as well as the cost of other factors (homes, loans for money), and the value of the dollar has dropped enough so that for most, any increase in salary hasn't reflected this increased cost of living...therefore, it's as if they are making less money than 2 or 3 years ago. With factors such as this, it matters little whether the economy grows or shrinks.

Recessions aren't the worst thing in the world...they really are quite neccessary for growth. An analogy would be like pruning your bushes...get rid of the old, or bad leaves and branches and watch the rest of the shrub thrive as a result. Another analogy would be like a distance runner losing any excessive weight they were carrying so they can run faster and further.

The best thing, imo, is to let the economy bottom out...let those who made bad decissions (lenders, borrowers, investors, owners) pay the price of their follies. This goes a long way to reinstilling the notion of "risk" in investments and will make people far more cautious about what deals they make in the future....and will FORCE people to self-regulate. You find the bottom quicker, people learn from experience, and then the upward growth can resume.

I'd hate to see us become more like Japan, or like we were during the "Great Depression" in which we so regulated the economy, that we only ended up pro-longing the economic downturn...Japan is JUST now coming out of their downturn only ready to hit another global downturn.

[Jsho13]

Its a great time to be a Buyer

[Nix]

^^^ Nicley put, excellent explanation Prince.

[theavenger333]

for a full blown recession, we will not know until mid to late summer. thats when vacation revenue hits the economy and such. winter always sucks. we are most definatly in a down time, have been for awhile, but summertime brings in way more revenue, as well as jobs. we'll see at the end of summer.

[johnny--2k]

i couldn't have said it any better than Prince....

[Mr. Brett]

Exactly. This is a natural economic process. Just let it happen and suck it up until it's over. The more the government tries to control it, the longer it's gonna last and the worse it will be. Let the idiots who bought what they can't afford deal with their mistakes. If they get bailed out, what's to stop them from doing it again?

[Z28Roxy]

Exactly. This is a natural economic process. Just let it happen and suck it up until it's over. The more the government tries to control it, the longer it's gonna last and the worse it will be. Let the idiots who bought what they can't afford deal with their mistakes. If they get bailed out, what's to stop them from doing it again?

Too bad they've already been bailing people and companies out :(

[STANMAN]

When will people realize that as the US economy goes, so goes the world economy? We feed 80% of the globe, never forget that, the US will ALWAYS have the upper hand. I love how people ***** about recession while driving a $50K SUV, eating whatever they want, whenever they want, living in a 2000 square foot house with a huge yard. I mean wake up people, if that's a recession, count me in!!! Gas prices are going to hit $4 soon, how will it influence your driving patterns? Not the slightest would be my guess. Face it, Americans as a whole are spoiled, they want the government to take care of everything. If you want more, earn it, it's THAT easy!

[Myles]

The world will end soon so it doesnt matter.

[Z28Roxy]

Gas prices are going to hit $4 soon, how will it influence your driving patterns? Not the slightest would be my guess. Face it, Americans as a whole are spoiled, they want the government to take care of everything. If you want more, earn it, it's THAT easy!

I run stop signs and red lights now.

[Windsors 03 Cobra]

Buyers market for what ? A house ? Big whoop, commodity prices are off the charts, among other things.
And too bad our standard of living is being eroded to be more like most of Mexico's. IMO

I am for capitalism and free market and rich Mf'ers and all that jazz but the middle class are dieing on the vine with more job cuts and higher cost of living on the way, Sad IMO.
Most of us have had a hand in the process, oh well.
And the predatory capitalist is more cunning than ever.
Could the USA be the next soviet union ?

I feel fortunate and am happy with my situation as it is now, just sayin.

[STANMAN]

I run stop signs and red lights now.

You did that before though. And raced people on their cell phones and claimed the victory:rolf

Don't worry though, I am ready for round 2, off cell phone!!!:banana1:

[Z28Roxy]

You did that before though. And raced people on their cell phones and claimed the victory:rolf

Don't worry though, I am ready for round 2, off cell phone!!!:banana1:

Except I missed 4th. :rolf

[88Nightmare]

When will people realize that as the US economy goes, so goes the world economy? We feed 80% of the globe, never forget that, the US will ALWAYS have the upper hand. I love how people ***** about recession while driving a $50K SUV, eating whatever they want, whenever they want, living in a 2000 square foot house with a huge yard. I mean wake up people, if that's a recession, count me in!!! Gas prices are going to hit $4 soon, how will it influence your driving patterns? Not the slightest would be my guess. Face it, Americans as a whole are spoiled, they want the government to take care of everything. If you want more, earn it, it's THAT easy!

I wasnt complaining, i was just wondering what other people thought

[Prince Valiant]

...too bad our standard of living is being eroded to be more like most of Mexico's. IMO Living standard similar to mexico's? Obviously you have no clue as to how poor Mexican citizens are.

First, our "poor" are quite wealthy by world standards...most of our poor own cars, tv's, have phones mobile and other, are able to afford eathing genourous if not unhealthy amounts all on their meager salaries. Something like 30% actually own their own homes.

Secondly, there is a "myth" that the "middle class" is disappearing and falling into the abyss of poverty...

For YEARS now, the percentage of "poor" people in our country has stayed relatively fixed. Middle-class numbers have shrunk as a percentage of the population too...but where did they go? Well, up to the "upper-class", of course.

Want some anecdotal evidence? Look at Mequon. Look at Cedarburg. Grafton. Port Washington. Brookfield. Ad nauseum....all these cities, the population has grown substantially...and the growth isn't fueled by low-income houseing either...this while poorer urban area's have shrunk in population. And consider, the population of Wisconsin hasn't grown dramatically in the last 20 years.

Another fairly amazing fact is that take the whole population of what we consider "poor" today...did you know that on average, in 5 years, 60% of our "poor" will be solidly middle class? How about that 5% of our poor will be pulling in over 80,000/year in 5 years...Why is this? Because nearly 40% of our "poor" are 18-26 with individuals no longer being claimed as dependants by mom n' dad.

America has income mobility like no other country...there truly is no fixed "class" of rich or poor, due to this (some years, the "rich" can truly be the "poorest" due to assest lost in a given year too).

Now, that said, that doesn't mean that the current stagflation doesn't hurt those in the lower-middle class or who are considered poor...it does.

[Karps TA]

Another fairly amazing fact is that take the whole population of what we consider "poor" today...did you know that on average, in 5 years, 60% of our "poor" will be solidly middle class? How about that 5% of our poor will be pulling in over 80,000/year in 5 years...Why is this? Because nearly 40% of our "poor" are 18-26 with individuals no longer being claimed as dependants by mom n' dad.

.

Interesting thought. Although where are these $80,000 a year jobs coming from? I search Monster everyday and unless everyone is having a job in the medical field, or is super outside sales guy, there's not a whole lot of those jobs out there. And there sure isn't alot of these jobs in the midwest. Now if you live on the coasts sure there's more $80K jobs available, but housing costs 3 times as much. So despite a 2 income family making $160K a year they still barely have any money because their cost of living is so high that they live not much different then a guy making $30K here with a $150K house.

[jbiscuit]

Interesting thought. Although where are these $80,000 a year jobs coming from? I search Monster everyday and unless everyone is having a job in the medical field, or is super outside sales guy, there's not a whole lot of those jobs out there. And there sure isn't alot of these jobs in the midwest. Now if you live on the coasts sure there's more $80K jobs available, but housing costs 3 times as much. So despite a 2 income family making $160K a year they still barely have any money because their cost of living is so high that they live not much different then a guy making $30K here with a $150K house.

+1

[STANMAN]

Americans on a whole are so spoiled that they don't even realize that 1/4 of the worlds population DOESN'T EVEN HAVE ELECTRICITY!!

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=468814


Americans really need to realize that even our "poor" live better than most "upper class" people in other parts of the world.

[Breecher_7]

Americans on a whole are so spoiled that they don't even realize that 1/4 of the worlds population DOESN'T EVEN HAVE ELECTRICITY!!

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=468814


Americans really need to realize that even our "poor" live better than most "upper class" people in other parts of the world.

Im onboard with your way of thinking here bob.

[Karps TA]

Americans on a whole are so spoiled that they don't even realize that 1/4 of the worlds population DOESN'T EVEN HAVE ELECTRICITY!!

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=468814


Americans really need to realize that even our "poor" live better than most "upper class" people in other parts of the world.

And that has what to do with anything? It's our fault they don't evolve and make something of their countries? That's a statement that has no bearing on anything. I don't give a rats ass how anyone lives outside of my country. Matter of fact I get pissed when my country spends my tax money on supporting these piss ant countries who prefer to live like cavemen.

[STANMAN]

And that has what to do with anything? It's our fault they don't evolve and make something of their countries? That's a statement that has no bearing on anything. I don't give a rats ass how anyone lives outside of my country. Matter of fact I get pissed when my country spends my tax money on supporting these piss ant countries who prefer to live like cavemen.

This has to do with our "poor" not knowing what "poor" even IS! It also has to do with how 99.9% of Americans are spoiled rotten and don't have the common sense to know how fortunate they are to have been born in the greatest nation on the planet. Most Americans take EVERYTHING for granted, and then ***** that they don't have enough. There are opportunities EVERYWHERE, but again, most Americans are to lazy to take advantage of them.

[Karps TA]

The only reason why our poor have anything is because out govt provides for them. Yes there are opportunities for jobs, but they don't all pay $80K a year. Tell me how you make a $800 rent payment on a $10 an hour job when you're also paying $50 a week for gas, $150 for utilities, and you still need food, insurance, health insurance, etc... also being taken out of that check.

Sure there are tons of people taking advantage of the system, and people who could work don't, I know that and ***** about it all the time.

Things don't change in this country unless people start bitching enough to make a change. To sit back and say, "hey we got it good, why complain" is just asking to be taken advantage of IMO and is exactly what "they" want. It's alot easier to control people if they're too busy trying to pay their bills to complain.

I see things getting alot worse before they get better. We've got a way to go till we hit bottom of this dropoff.

[SSDude]

I wouldn't say a recession...yet. Since it's two quarters of a shrinking economy is required to be termed a "recession", and that hasn't occured yet.

However, it is one of those things that we actually don't know how the economy actually did until a year or so after the fact...much of what is reported on a "real time" basis are based on estimates and indicators. So even if it's reported that the economy grew every quarter this year, then it may prove later that they were inaccurate estimates and we actually WERE in a recession.

While recession can suck in the short-term, long term they are a neccessary part of the economic cycle...it's like trimming the fat, the excess, the bad...everything that was holding the economy back.

It's like the housing market...sure, prices in MOST market's have dropped, buying had slowed...but truth be told, the market was bloated, prices for most houses were WAY over-priced, hence the extreme slow-down in buying. Most correctly figured that this was crazy and a drop would come, and stopped buying.

In many market's though, where percipitous drops have occured (again, local market here is different), existing home sales have increased as of late as a response to the falling prices...IE, those markets are finding their "bottom" and will soon recover.

Oil prices will do much of the same thing...people have bid up the futures market on oil, but soon, people are going to say "this can't continue like this" and there will be a dramatic drop on the price of oil.

What is affecting people the MOST however, has little to do with whether the economy is in a "recession" or during a period of growth...and it's called "stagflation". Basically, the price of everyday living needs (Food & gas) have gone up, as well as the cost of other factors (homes, loans for money), and the value of the dollar has dropped enough so that for most, any increase in salary hasn't reflected this increased cost of living...therefore, it's as if they are making less money than 2 or 3 years ago. With factors such as this, it matters little whether the economy grows or shrinks.

Recessions aren't the worst thing in the world...they really are quite neccessary for growth. An analogy would be like pruning your bushes...get rid of the old, or bad leaves and branches and watch the rest of the shrub thrive as a result. Another analogy would be like a distance runner losing any excessive weight they were carrying so they can run faster and further.

The best thing, imo, is to let the economy bottom out...let those who made bad decissions (lenders, borrowers, investors, owners) pay the price of their follies. This goes a long way to reinstilling the notion of "risk" in investments and will make people far more cautious about what deals they make in the future....and will FORCE people to self-regulate. You find the bottom quicker, people learn from experience, and then the upward growth can resume.

I'd hate to see us become more like Japan, or like we were during the "Great Depression" in which we so regulated the economy, that we only ended up pro-longing the economic downturn...Japan is JUST now coming out of their downturn only ready to hit another global downturn.

Chris has it on the money. :thumbsup

I would only add that the increasing global demand has driven oil prices to where they are.

Our Congressmen and Senators are fools not to allow us to drill for oil within our reach. NWT and the Gulf

The big wet sloppy kiss to the big business of ethanol is a major reason for food prices climbing like they have lately. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1725975,00.html

[RanJer]

speaking of pancakes...
http://www.oswald.us/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/bunny-pancake.jpg

[Karps TA]

The big wet sloppy kiss to the big business of ethanol is a major reason for food prices climbing like they have lately. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1725975,00.html

Ethanol, what a scam.

I work with a guy who grew up in Iowa on a farm. The county he lived in was one of the biggest corn producing counties in the country, much less the state. The grain elevator there would send 100's of cars of corn to the gulf to get rid of it every year. Since ethanol's big push, they now have to import corn from other countries to supply the demand. But the biggest joke is his brother works for the power company there and due to the ethanol production energy usage is up over 800%. So we're paying to import a crop in order to make a fuel that is less efficient, potentially more harmful to the environment, and costs a ton in order to produce, which the govt is subsidizing to keep costs down. Instead of just drilling for the oil we have right here in our own country to increase supply and lower prices until a real alternative to fossil fuels can be created.

We so smart!

[Prince Valiant]

So despite a 2 income family making $160K a year they still barely have any money because their cost of living is so high that they live not much different then a guy making $30K here with a $150K house.Your example is poor, at best.

Take that 30K/year guy with 150K with 30year note @ 6% house:
His payment w/o taxes: ~900 month
Taxes: 3,500 year or about 290/month
Home insurance: 380/yr or 32/moth
Total home payment: ~ 1222/ month.

At 30K/year, this translates to 2,500/month before taxes. (first, this guy shouldn't buy a 150,000 house)
After taxes, less the approximately 9,000/year he pays in interest (IE taxing 21,000/year) he's probably bringing home roughly less 10% of his remaining salary (he paid at 10% on the first 7,500 and 15% on the remaining amount to 21,000), and claimed himself as an allowance...this leaves him with 1050/month and he's not even paid heat, car, insurance, gas, or food yet! This guy shouldn't be approved for such a loan, lol...


Now, let's up your example a bit...this couple making 160,000 are living in a nicer house than is comperable to a home costing 150K here...let's say their house cost roughly 600,000 out east.

Home payment (30 years @ 6%, no down payment): 3600/month (it's highly doubtful that a couple would buy a home such as this with no down payment with money accrued from another home, but I digress).
Taxes at a higher rate, let's say: 20,000/year or 1667/month
Insurance (assuming similar risk IE not hurricane/tornado/crime): 1600/year or 133/mo
Total monthly payment: 5400/month.

Again...it might be foolish to buy a house like this on in boston (one of the worst housing market's in the US) (http://vow.mlspin.com/idx/details.asp?mls=70728188&aid=K8001042), or even in WI, on a salary of 160,000/year...again, I digress...

Couples gross income: 160000/year or 13,300/month.
This couple's tax rate is 28% from 128,000 and up, and let's say it's only 23% on the whole amount from 0-160000. AND let's figure in a 10% state income tax too...take out the 30,000/year in interest they pay and that leaves their taxable income at 130,000*.23= 29,900 and 130,000*.10=13,000 so adjusted income after taxes is roughly 160,000-42,900=117,100/year or 9750/month.

These guys, after paying off their 5400/month house payment still have 4360/month left over...substantially more money to live off of on a monthly basis.

But as to your claim that only if you are in the medical field or a sales man can you get these 80,000/year jobs is bunk...

Actuary's, accountants, underwriters, managers in retail and business, IT professionals, airline pilots, lawyers, business owners, and many many many many more have the potential to make this an more, with no ties to sales or medicine...and of course these jobs are in the midwest...not everyone in the aformentioned communities are either Doctors or salesmen, or even just lawyers too...

...plus the claim that there are few of these jobs in the midwest...sure there are...heck, even in GB there are some pretty decent paying jobs for experienced and trained professionals/businessmen. I'll use a personal example...places my dad's worked and made over 100G/year: Milwaukee, Green Bay, Sauk city, Chicago, Blaine, Little Rock (not technically midwest, but not a bastion of business either) and he's just an Underwriter for life insurance and as of recently health insurance policies. Brother makes ~80,000/G and his primary title is as a Unix admin here in Milwaukee.

[lordairgtar]

The only reason why our poor have anything is because out govt provides for them. Yes there are opportunities for jobs, but they don't all pay $80K a year. Tell me how you make a $800 rent payment on a $10 an hour job when you're also paying $50 a week for gas, $150 for utilities, and you still need food, insurance, health insurance, etc... also being taken out of that check.

Sure there are tons of people taking advantage of the system, and people who could work don't, I know that and ***** about it all the time.

I have an eleven dollar an hour job and I pay $690 a month rent. Your hitting a little to close to my situation. I get absolutely nothing from any government program and I pay my own health insurance so I'm not getting any free care, either. It's called frugal living and not getting into debt. The only debt I have is my car and a loan from last year for some bills I had to pay off. I got rid of all my credit cards too.

[Karps TA]

I think your words sounds great in idea, but sure seems like I know an awful lot of people, and very few of them are making $80K a year and living like kings. Most are living with a ton of debt and scrape by with not much besides a 401K planning for their future. I know very few accountants at my company making more then $45K a year.

Blue collar jobs are the backbone of this country, and allow the people with the white collars to make money. Where do the white collar people make money when there's no more blue collar jobs?

How many people on this board do you think make $80K a year?

[Karps TA]

I have an eleven dollar an hour job and I pay $690 a month rent. Your hitting a little to close to my situation. I get absolutely nothing from any government program and I pay my own health insurance so I'm not getting any free care, either. It's called frugal living and not getting into debt. The only debt I have is my car and a loan from last year for some bills I had to pay off. I got rid of all my credit cards too.

That's great you can live that way. Man I wish I had that kind of self control. But if everyone lived like that, where do you think the economy would have been the last decade? People need to spend money in order to keep other people in jobs. We got out of the last recession by spending. The President has pleaded with people the last 7 years, Spend, spend like crazy, here's some more money to spend. Banks get creative to get people money they shouldn't normally have. People got approval to buy things they had no right buying. Heck I'm a prefect example of that. Woops that company you worked for has it's costs rising and they aren't making as much profit as wall street thinks they should. So Wall Street drops their share price 10%. Shareholders demand that the CEO fix this, so since he can't create sales he has to lower costs meaning you lose your job. Now you have no job, and have a mortgage you shouldn't have had in the first place. So you don't pay your bills. Which means the banks are making money, so they aren't loaning money or didn't have enough foresight to see this happen. So now the govt has to bail them out with money it doesn't have.....

:rolf

I appreciate the fact that Chris has such an optomistic outlook on everything. It keeps the rest of us in check. I started drinking a different flavor of koolaid a couple years ago when I found out the other kind was giving me cavities. :D

[Prince Valiant]

I think your words sounds great in idea, but sure seems like I know an awful lot of people, and very few of them are making $80K a year and living like kings. Most are living with a ton of debt and scrape by with not much besides a 401K planning for their future. I know very few accountants at my company making more then $45K a year.

When people incur debt, it's their own fault (aside from medical which is why so many bandy that debt about...but even then smarter choices could lead to them purchasing insurance and protecting themselves)...sounds harsh, I know.

Plus the question of how many on this board makes 80G has no relavance here 2? 3? 50? We aren't a true representation of the population as a whole...we're quite literally a bunch of yahoo's with too much time on thier hands. How many have college educations? How many have professional training? How many own and run a sucessful business? Fully 33% of households in the US make ~80G or more a year.

Remember, I wasn't stating this as an "average" or a "mean", just stating that in any given year, 5% of the people we term as "poor" (roughly 15% of the US population, so just 0.75% of the total population ) will in 5 years be making ~80G/year.

This isn't to say everyone can get a job paying 80G or more, or that your turn is near, which seems to be what you're implying I'm saying (which would be a red herring)...not at all. Go out, get professional/collegiate training in a high demand field, could you be making 80G? Sure! Until then, it's unlikely to occur by looking on monster.com. The point was simply to highlight a distinct feature of the US economic make-up in that it's HIGHLY mobile, so terms like "the poor" or "middle class" and "upper class" aren't these rigid structures that rarely admit new folks in ever...not the case at all.

[Karps TA]

When people incur debt, it's their own fault (aside from medical which is why so many bandy that debt about...but even then smarter choices could lead to them purchasing insurance and protecting themselves)...sounds harsh, I know.



I don't completely agree with that. People will only incur debt that they are given. Don't give people money they can't afford to pay back, and then they have no debt. Like the mortgage "bailout". Who is more at fault? Lenders or the Lendees? If someone on here asks me to borrow a bunch of money and people tell me he's not good for it and it's a bad decision and I still loan him the money. Do I have a right to be surprised or upset that I got screwed? That's the mortgage industry. So since the gov't is willing to bail them out for making poor decisions, I think there should be some consideration to the individuals as well who got suckered in as well. Banks have a way of not explaining everything to you sometimes.

And as for medical bills, I've got insurance, and I'm still stuck with several grand in bills I didn't expect to have over the last year. Not too mention the messed up back that isn't any better then it was before I incured the bills. So I can easily see how people can be overcome with those kind of bills. Mine would be even worse if I kept going to doctors to throw good money after bad.

BTW I enjoy these debates, however I hate typing my argument, because I'm sometimes onto a new thought before I finish typing my previous thought. So forgive me if I'm a little scattered. It's the ADD in me. lol

[Berettaspeed]

i personaly dont really see much of anything out of the normal. its the HYPE people read then they act upon it. if people are talking about this crap its going to happen.

there are pleanty of jobs out there its just people WANT positions not jobs. thats how i look at it. people can get 2 jobs, but they wont. if things were that bad more people would get 2 jobs. the hell with gas prices. honestly. all people do is cry about it. yet they are still at the pump.some people could ride their bikes to work but wont.

we are just too lazy to stop what we are so used to having. we wont give up things that we dont need. having a job is not a right, its a privilege. people just dont know that.

[GRAMPS SS]

I'd say we've been in a recession for quite a while.

i have to agree with this mans statement.....thought we were in a recission for a few years now...i may be wrong...but i think at least 8 years....

as far as big ticket items...i just dropped 5200.00 on seans teeth...that hit the ole account...and i may have to spend another close to 6k on myself.....thank god for our tax refund and out little bonus check the pres gave us....that should put us even....:banana1::banana1::banana

[DirtyMax]

little bonus check the pres gave us....that should put us even....

Think of that bugger as a short term loan or a cash advance if you will. Someone's gonna have to pay that back... I'm sure it'll be us in the next year or so....

[GRAMPS SS]

^^^^i think it's like the last cash back we got a few years back...at the end of the year..i had to pay it back...no difference this time as well...you hit the nail on the head...short term cash advance...but what will the interest be on that cash advance....

[88Nightmare]

thats the other thing. most people I know will be taking that tax stimulus check to pay pre-existing bills, not going out and buyin themselves a big screen TV like Bush hoped....

[GRAMPS SS]

^^^^^^with what some people are getting...lets say..600.00...wtf can you do with it....stock the fridge....fill your truck with gas ...what 13 times.... and most people 600.00 won't put a dent in some of there bills....how many people live on there credit cards???????? i know a few that do ...that 600.00 won't help them out....and a big screen is what...1700.00 to 2400.00....600.00 may be a down payment..then put the rest on the plastic.....then your screwed again.....time will tell....i'm just grateful that myself and my wife have good jobs and see light at the end of that long dark tunnel the economy is in...

[lordairgtar]

thats the other thing. most people I know will be taking that tax stimulus check to pay pre-existing bills, not going out and buyin themselves a big screen TV like Bush hoped....
But paying bills is putting money in the hands of a business that sold you a service which in turn can pay their workers, upgrade their equipment and so forth. So, in essence, the economy is still being stimulated. It's just not going toward things people really don't need. Consumerism can be the fluffy kitteh that will cuddle up to you but it can also be the Panther that will have you for lunch. Where is the happy medium. I'm having a hell of a time getting my debt paid off, but I find I can still enjoy my hobbies and live a comfortable life by not indulging in the buy buy buy mentality. Yes, I bought a new car last year, but sometimes that stuff happens when your old car starts costing you every month to fix something. Soon the Credit Cards I cut up will be paid off and all I will have is the car and the other loan to deal with. I'll be debt free!!!!

[Smokey1226]

Thats always a good feeling! I was debt free for 3 years untill i bought my truck but im busting my but trying to get it paid off ASAP. The feeling of having no money going out and money coming in is amazing.

But this economy better come back around or its going to be really hard for anyone to be able to do such thing!