11-year-old girl died of untreated diabetes, should mother be charged with crime?

[DynoTom]

The mother of an 11-year-old Weston girl who died of untreated diabetes says she didn't know her daughter was terminally ill as she prayed for her to get better. Do you believe the mother should be charged with a crime?

[Flicktitty]

Yes, if that Mother/father has any more children they should be taken from them. what a bunch of bullshit.

[WickedSix]

need more to the story....nothing is ever black or white...... i can see an arguement either way

[Breecher_7]

Unfortunatly things like this on a larger scale are what start wars.

Religious Beliefs are Religious Beliefs. Although I do not agree with it, who are we to judge someone elses Beliefs.

They should not be charged.

[Karps TA]

Those people should be charged no different then someone who leaves their kid in a hot car and the kid dies.




Religious Beliefs are Religious Beliefs. Although I do not agree with it, who are we to judge someone elses Beliefs.



Based on that argument, if someone in this country is Muslim and they stone their wife to death for being accused of infidelity, that guy should then be not charged?

Just cause they are nutjobs, doesn't mean they should be absolved of neglect.

[88Nightmare]

like others said, this is a tough call. religious beliefs make choices difficult.

[badass88gt]

Unfortunatly things like this on a larger scale are what start wars.

Religious Beliefs are Religious Beliefs. Although I do not agree with it, who are we to judge someone elses Beliefs.

They should not be charged.


This happened a few blocks from my house. The coffee shop they own is right next to the gym I go to.

I feel BOTH parents are responsible for her death. Just this past December they pulled Kara out of public schools. They had family members all the way in California, thats who called the police. For the parents to sit and say they didnt know she was THAT bad is bullshit. They knew, how else would the family in CA know she was that bad to call the cops and tell them she was in a coma?

The parents believed that prayer would help her. Manson also believed he was doing nothing wrong. Anyone remember the Branch Davidians down in Waco? They believed it was ok to have underage brides and assault their children.

Lots of people believe lots of things, that doesnt make them right, and that certainly doesnt make it acceptable to deprive a young girl of medical attention, especially for something that was EASILY treatable.

[Flicktitty]

go to any milwaukee news site and they will be talking about it. Hell i think it was on the front of yahoo a few days ago.

[Car Guy]

This story pisses me off beyond anyone's wildest imagination. I feel so sorry for that girl and wish her parents rot in the hell they've created by their so called 'beliefs'.....

Religion my a$$, how about the religion of saving your daughter’s life.....






:3gears: :3gears: :3gears:

[badass88gt]

Like I said, they dont live far from me at all. Its all we've heard about lately, besides the girl up in Tomahawk that got murdered, now the guy they want turned himself in in Milwaukee.

[WickedSix]

This happened a few blocks from my house. The coffee shop they own is right next to the gym I go to.

I feel BOTH parents are responsible for her death. Just this past December they pulled Kara out of public schools. They had family members all the way in California, thats who called the police. For the parents to sit and say they didnt know she was THAT bad is bullshit. They knew, how else would the family in CA know she was that bad to call the cops and tell them she was in a coma?

The parents believed that prayer would help her. Manson also believed he was doing nothing wrong. Anyone remember the Branch Davidians down in Waco? They believed it was ok to have underage brides and assault their children.

Lots of people believe lots of things, that doesnt make them right, and that certainly doesnt make it acceptable to deprive a young girl of medical attention, especially for something that was EASILY treatable.

It is a sticky subject in that how can you force someone to accept something they don't believe in ..... granted the child is too young to know much more than what their parents believed .... who is to say that the child's death wasn't part of a greater plan??

The question is what duty does governemnt have to provide for the wellfare of the child AGAINST the parents wishes? just because a disease is easily treated now does it make it a crime? no one would prosecute in the 1800's for a mysterious disease that left the child in a comma ...... does technologie enable harsher judgement of a parents actions??

[badass88gt]

They are solely responsible for the death of an 11 year old girl. Their daughter. Seems pretty open and shut to me.

[Car Guy]

While it's definitely a sticky subject no matter how you look at it, you can't argue the fact that in this day in time the parents didn't know any better.....







:3gears: :3gears: :3gears:

[Breecher_7]

They are solely responsible for the death of an 11 year old girl. Their daughter. Seems pretty open and shut to me.

Although I agree with you, this is the reason that some countries have been at war for hundreds of years. People have a right to practice there religion, the question is though, where should the line be drawn without it becoming an issue of persecution.

[WickedSix]

While it's definitely a sticky subject no matter how you look at it, you can't argue the fact that in this day in time the parents didn't know any better.....

no, undoubtedly they would know some form of treatment was available, whether or not they chose to have it administered to their child..... there lies the issue I spoke of

[badass88gt]

We're not some 3rd world shithole though. The parents were advised to get medical help for her. They knew. They ignored it.

Honestly, I believe they wanted her dead, and they are using the religion as their "perfect" excuse to try avoiding prosectution.

[Car Guy]

We're not some 3rd world shithole though. The parents were advised to get medical help for her. They knew. They ignored it.

Honestly, I believe they wanted her dead, and they are using the religion as their "perfect" excuse to try avoiding prosectution.


I second that ^^^, and feel that the excuse of 'religion' is used AND abused way too often.....

They made the decision NOT to take her in for real medical treatment, regardless of what they 'believe' in. So with that said they are responsible to the outcome of what happened.....






:3gears: :3gears: :3gears:

[Reverend Cooper]

^ its all good if they dont prosecute them anyways, they will burn in hell for their sins. GOD put dr. and hospitals on this planet to help people

[badass88gt]

In the mean time they get to carry on their lives while an innocent child is dead.

I agree. God can heal, with the help of doctors and medicine. They are tools of God.

[LIZMO]

i said no but i prob should of said im not sure... cuz i don't know the whole story either. but diabetes sucks... my dad and grandpa both have it, and my dad lost his foot due to it almost a year ago. :-/

[badass88gt]

Here's the complete story so far. A special section on the local newspaper's website devoted to her. Hope you have some time.


http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/99999999/WDH0101/80325198/1981&theme=WDHNEUMANN&template=theme

[Reverend Cooper]

In the mean time they get to carry on their lives while an innocent child is dead.

I agree. God can heal, with the help of doctors and medicine. They are tools of God.

a minimal time here on earth,they will burn eternally in hell

[67-400]

This story urks me to no end, guilty as charged!! If they were any kind of believer & with any amount of faith in their blood they would know that its not Gods intentions to let people sit and die UNTREATED, there were physicians in the bible........... Look up Collossians 4:14. It was topic of discussion today at church! :D

[badass88gt]

Madeline Neumann's aunt from California contacted the Police Department out of concerns about the girl's health and asked police to check on her niece, Vergin said. The girl, who went by her middle name, Kara, was taken by ambulance from the family's home on Maplewood Drive to Saint Clare's Hospital in Weston, where she was pronounced dead.


Marathon County Medical Examiner John Larson said diabetic ketoacidosis prevents the body from absorbing nutrients. The girl appeared abnormally lean, and Larson said her body was wasting away.


Kathy Ziembo, an advanced practice registered nurse at Aspirus Wausau Hospital, said the condition is treatable and that the hospital treats several cases of it a week.


Symptoms include nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, excessive thirst and fatigue.


"You know if there is something wrong," Ziembo said.

[Voodoo Chick]

That poor little girl......what kind of hell did she have to go through before she actually died?? Her parents are guilty of neglect, at the VERY least. Religious beliefs do NOT excuse such disregard for an illness. It's disgusting to me.

[Al]

a minimal time here on earth,they will burn eternally in hell

Ehhhh....I won't go that far.


Here is what I think:

These parents need to be prosecuted because they are a risk to any other children they might/could have.


The parents might have been Christian Scientist. This group thinks of Jesus as the Ultimate Healer and that he had dominion over nature in that way, rather than being a savior of souls. The scientists believe that if you reach the same level of spirituality, you can overcome illness. These people seem to not understand Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

These people might also think that the healthcare infrastucture is run by the devil.

[badass88gt]

Their 3 other kids have been removed from the home.

[moels]

Let the parents die a slow painful death. Anything else would be to good for them.

[fivonut]

So, should the police be allowed to bash in your door and forcibly take your child to be medically treated any time they deem it necessary? I only ask because I recently read about that exact thing happening to a family. It turned out the father had been trained and knew how to treat his child on his own and had in fact treated the child properly and the child suffered no ill effects. Where would you draw the line??? It's so easy to say in hindsight.......


I agree that these parents should be held criminally responsible, but if a proactive approach is going to far, then nothing can be done until after the fact.

[Syclone0044]

After stuff like this, is there anybody left who still thinks that prayer "works"? :confused

I remember Princess Diana getting in a bad car wreck, and every church in the world was praying together, millions of people sending prayers in her name hoping for her recovery. She died anyway. What does that say about the effectiveness of prayer? :rolleyes:

I haven't prayed in over 10 years, and fortunate/lucky things still happen to me at a normal rate.

Science > Religion.

[Al]

Their 3 other kids have been removed from the home.

IMO, that is the right thing to do.


After stuff like this, is there anybody left who still thinks that prayer "works"? :confused

I remember Princess Diana getting in a bad car wreck, and every church in the world was praying together, millions of people sending prayers in her name hoping for her recovery. She died anyway. What does that say about the effectiveness of prayer? :rolleyes:

I haven't prayed in over 10 years, and fortunate/lucky things still happen to me at a normal rate.

Science > Religion.

Some people hold on to their hope longer than others.


So, should the police be allowed to bash in your door and forcibly take your child to be medically treated any time they deem it necessary? I only ask because I recently read about that exact thing happening to a family. It turned out the father had been trained and knew how to treat his child on his own and had in fact treated the child properly and the child suffered no ill effects. Where would you draw the line??? It's so easy to say in hindsight.......


I agree that these parents should be held criminally responsible, but if a proactive approach is going to far, then nothing can be done until after the fact.

Ya know, my dad did the same thing for me when I was younger. BUT, he took me to his dental office when he did any work other than pull out loose teeth or make a visual diagnosis.

One problem that did arise for me when I was younger was when I caught mono when I was about 12. my old man thought he knew enough to be a physician. He said, "you will be fine in a few days." Well, a few days turned into two weeks. After eating nothing for 3 days, my mother took me to a doctor. I remember the doc being VERY agitated over what my dad had said. Moral here: training and knowledge means you know some stuff, but you are not a true professional in the field without that specific degree.

Alot of shitty stuff can happen behind closed doors. From a healthcare perspective, everything needs to be done in a proper environment. The home is not a good environment for almost all procedures.

So, what was the guy doing to necessitate police intervention?

[05caddyext]

Science > Religion

:wooo:thumbsup


GOD put dr. and hospitals on this planet to help people

:rolf


We're not some 3rd world shithole though. The parents were advised to get medical help for her. They knew. They ignored it.


:thumbsup

My own opinion:

Religion should not be a sticky subject. You can believe what you want, everyone can. But when it comes to the Law, you are legally responsible for your children until they are 18. Therefore, it doesn't matter what you believe, you must get treatment. Hell the last time I checked about the only the church has been doing lately is paying out hundreds of millions of dollars in settlements for the sexual abuse of young children :stare,. People need to wake up. Religion is an excuse for people not to take action on their own. Do you honestly believe their is a singular God that created everything? :rolf

[fivonut]

IMO, that is the right thing to do.



Some people hold on to their hope longer than others.



Ya know, my dad did the same thing for me when I was younger. BUT, he took me to his dental office when he did any work other than pull out loose teeth or make a visual diagnosis.

One problem that did arise for me when I was younger was when I caught mono when I was about 12. my old man thought he knew enough to be a physician. He said, "you will be fine in a few days." Well, a few days turned into two weeks. After eating nothing for 3 days, my mother took me to a doctor. I remember the doc being VERY agitated over what my dad had said. Moral here: training and knowledge means you know some stuff, but you are not a true professional in the field without that specific degree.

Alot of shitty stuff can happen behind closed doors. From a healthcare perspective, everything needs to be done in a proper environment. The home is not a good environment for almost all procedures.

So, what was the guy doing to necessitate police intervention?

I don't recall exactly. The story was brought up in another thread on another board involving government conspiracies. I do remember the neighbor witnessed the boy get injured outside (bumped his head maybe) and called 911. When paramedics arrived the father refused to allow them into the house. Paramedics called the police and the police stormed their house. The boy was checked over at the hospital and the doctor said the father had treated him perfectly.

[Cryptic]

11-year-old girl died of untreated diabetes, should mother be charged with crime?

Absofukinglutely, When a person turns 18 they can decide for themselves to "cure with prayer". This isn't the 1500's. Medical science gives definitive proof of the disease and its treatment.

Notice I said "treatment", not cure. Pray for cure all you want but the child is entitled to treatment. It's complete neglect on the parents. I have members in my family that have Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes. You can't ignore either.

[Z28Roxy]

Absofukinglutely, When a person turns 18 they can decide for themselves to "cure with prayer". This isn't the 1500's. Medical science gives definitive proof of the disease and its treatment.

Notice I said "treatment", not cure. Pray for cure all you want but the child is entitled to treatment. It's complete neglect on the parents. I have members in my family that have Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes. You can't ignore either.

/thread

[badass88gt]

Just to update, the DA announced today that both parents will be charged with Second Degree Reckless Homicide.

http://www.wsaw.com/home/headlines/18330339.html

[flyin_blue_egg]

good thats what they deserve!!!

[badass88gt]

I have a feeling this trial is gonna take forever, there will be appeals, there will be a media fiasco over this.