Operation Converter Installation

[67-400]

Hey guys, well thanks for all the recommendations on torque converters from my past thread, i have gone with the 3200 custom built through a racing place connected with Darrel's Transmission at a cost of $550. Thanks for the referral John. So I wanted to post a thread about this, not just for me but for others if they search also.

To start off with I have one simple question, i'm about to bring the transmission down, do I have to remove panels off the center council near the shifter from the interior or is there linkage that I can access and disconnect from the trans while i'm underneath the car? I don't want to all of a sudden pull the shifter through the center council when i'm droppin the trans down. I've never done this type of operation to a car to know what i'm gettin into. Any other hints or tips are appreciated! Thanks!

[juicedimpss]

put a new pump seal in while you have the trans out.
:D

[PonyKiller87]

Hey guys, well thanks for all the recommendations on torque converters from my past thread, i have gone with the 3200 custom built through a racing place connected with Darrel's Transmission at a cost of $550. Thanks for the referral John. So I wanted to post a thread about this, not just for me but for others if they search also.

To start off with I have one simple question, i'm about to bring the transmission down, do I have to remove panels off the center council near the shifter from the interior or is there linkage that I can access and disconnect from the trans while i'm underneath the car? I don't want to all of a sudden pull the shifter through the center council when i'm droppin the trans down. I've never done this type of operation to a car to know what i'm gettin into. Any other hints or tips are appreciated! Thanks!

The cables all connect to the trans on the side, disconnect them before you drop the tranny. You shouldn't have to take the center console apart at all. Should be 2 cables (TV and shifter) and then there will be 1 or 2 plugs for the electrical stuff, both will be twards the rear of the trans.

[Heat Seeker WS6]

Not a prob at all- glad it worked out! Looking forward to seeing your car
I was gonna do the trans swap myself & some other work, but instead had the shop just take care of it & not have any worries at all- plus having them do the test drive & work out any bugs. Ive never done it before and didnt want to chance anything going wrong by missing anything.

[67-400]

I wish I had the money to spend to give it to someone to take care of, got any extra that I can have? :D eh, doing it myself also gives me the feel for it, i've done everything to my car but the transmission, so its about time I learn. Well, and the rear dif, but there I have no need to fix...yet. With the launching i'm expecting to achieve now, somethin is gonna give sooner or later! Drive-shaft loop is in the works :thumbsup

[PonyKiller87]

I wish I had the money to spend to give it to someone to take care of, got any extra that I can have? :D eh, doing it myself also gives me the feel for it, i've done everything to my car but the transmission, so its about time I learn. Well, and the rear dif, but there I have no need to fix...yet. With the launching i'm expecting to achieve now, somethin is gonna give sooner or later! Drive-shaft loop is in the works :thumbsup

Spohn makes a nice DS loop that bolts onto the tranny mount bolts, works way better than those kind that bolt to the floor.

[67-400]

Spohn makes a nice DS loop that bolts onto the tranny mount bolts, works way better than those kind that bolt to the floor.


hmmm, ill keep that in mind, thanks!

[Syclone0044]

Make SURE you know what you're doing when you reinstall the new converter to the trans, and put the trans up to the engine. If you get it wrong, you can destroy your tranny and converter. There needs to be like a 5/8" gap from the converter to the flywheel when the tranny is mounted up, and then you slide the converter forward to bolt it to the flywheel.

[67-400]

Make SURE you know what you're doing when you reinstall the new converter to the trans, and put the trans up to the engine. If you get it wrong, you can destroy your tranny and converter. There needs to be like a 5/8" gap from the converter to the flywheel when the tranny is mounted up, and then you slide the converter forward to bolt it to the flywheel.

Uh oh, there was about 3/8 or so. Another website states that you should have minimum 1/8 but no more than 3/8. I went off that, didn't get your msg til now. We'll see what happens, all is runnin good now! I'm headin up to Culvers for a good butterburger after all that work!!

[BadAzzGTA89]

How does it "feel" now??
I know i am in need of one also and will be putting one in soon!

[67-400]

How does it "feel" now??
I know i am in need of one also and will be putting one in soon!

The converter I took out was a 12" converter. The one I installed yesterday was a 3000-3200 Stall 10" converter. The ONLY difference I notice is the quicker response of power to the wheels. Turning less mass i assume = more power distribution to the wheels.

On the flip side, I was at a dead stop, brakes are on just as in the staging lanes of the track. I revved the motor up to see if the RPMs would climb higher than 2100 before the tires spun. The result was the tires still broke loose at 2100rpms, as it did before with the old converter. I was expecting the car to rev higher, hence the "3200 stall. Am I confused about the purpose of the higher stall? Anyways, overall the car's power/torque response has acceptionally increased!! :headbang

[Heat Seeker WS6]

Nice! :headbang

[forest]

The ONLY difference I notice is the quicker response of power to the wheels.

On the flip side, I was at a dead stop, brakes are on just as in the staging lanes of the track. I revved the motor up to see if the RPMs would climb higher than 2100 before the tires spun. The result was the tires still broke loose at 2100rpms, as it did before with the old converter. I was expecting the car to rev higher, hence the "3200 stall. Am I confused about the purpose of the higher stall?

nope, sounds like you didn't get the right stall at all, a 3200 stall will start to engage around 2900 and be locked up at 3100 on a foot brake, 3200 if you flash stall it from an idle. go get your money back or have them restall your verter for free. it will feel WAY better than the one you have now.

[BAD LS1]

There is alot more than determining stall by how much it can be foot braked...

the converter will "flash" to 3200 the moment you hit it with enough torque AND hard enough... Your brakes might not hold it to get it there, and your tires/suspension probably wont hold traction enough to see it spike.

The higher stall is just giving some play in how quickly it begins to move the car forward with authority and letting it slip into the meaty part of engines power band before it really starts to move the car with all it can deliver. Stall torque ratios play a part in this too...

This is why you get what you pay for... you call yank or P.I., tell them what kinda feel you want out of it, your mods and they ship you a converter thats more efficent than some bent fin stocker and often times will reach their desired stall on a foot brake if they are "loose" enough. You can havea loose and tight 3200 that will act totally diff from each other

[juicedimpss]

i agree with tom,money spent on a good convertor will be a nice piece that is not quite as noticable when "driving normal" yet flash at the desired speed puttng the engine into its powerband.
furthermore,what kind of tach are you using to determine what it footbrake stalls to? it wouldnt surprise me for a factory tach to not read correctly.

[forest]

i agree with you both, but a converter that doesn't stall within a couple hundred rpm of its rated stall speed on a foot brake isn't worth a damn really. this guy is talkin 1/3rd of his stall speed missing so to speak! 1000 rpm lower there is no excuse for at all especially on only a 3200 converter.

[juicedimpss]

i agree with you both, but a converter that doesn't stall within a couple hundred rpm of its rated stall speed on a foot brake isn't worth a damn really. this guy is talkin 1/3rd of his stall speed missing so to speak! 1000 rpm lower there is no excuse for at all especially on only a 3200 converter.

i dunno,my imp would footbrake 2400 and flash 3200 on motor,on the gun it would flash a lil more :D

[67-400]

I just called Darrels & the receptionist says her "Transmission guy is out sick today." I'll have to talk to him tomorrow. True, I wasn't really all that impressed with the results after spending $600 + on all materials to gain that little extra feeling of power. Sure, I got some, but thats the difference from 12inch to the 10inch converter. From what I was told, I was expecting better results. I'll find out tomorrow.

[67-400]

i agree with you both, but a converter that doesn't stall within a couple hundred rpm of its rated stall speed on a foot brake isn't worth a damn really. this guy is talkin 1/3rd of his stall speed missing so to speak! 1000 rpm lower there is no excuse for at all especially on only a 3200 converter.

I'm tryin to get ahold of Brian from Sheboygan, hopefully schedule a dyno-tune for Sunday, you available on that day?

[67-400]

i agree with tom,money spent on a good convertor will be a nice piece that is not quite as noticable when "driving normal" yet flash at the desired speed puttng the engine into its powerband.
furthermore,what kind of tach are you using to determine what it footbrake stalls to? it wouldnt surprise me for a factory tach to not read correctly.


Yah, its the stock tach, but it read 2100 for both the old converter & the new one when tires broke loose.

[forest]

i dunno,my imp would footbrake 2400 and flash 3200 on motor,on the gun it would flash a lil more :D

interesting, ive had shitty converters that stalled real low on foot and high on flash, and i switched companies and got WAY better results, IMO at least. this guy is talking about same stall speed as stock though, not even a little looser = no stall at all? and yes, we can run your car sunday for sure, 1-414-322-0280 or 1-262-692-9035 thanks Forest.

[67-400]

Well, I just got off the phone w/Midwest Converter & they said because I said its driven on the street more often than on the track, they made it a little tighter. With it being so loose, It would generate alot more heat & ail the transmission sooner than later. When it comes time to launch on tires that stick, i'd notice a huge difference. We'll see, I've got some drag radials i'll take to the track this year.

Forest,
As soon as I hear from Brian on whether this Sunday is good for him to tune, i'll shoot you a call to confirm a time. :thumbsup See ya!

[juicedimpss]

Well, I just got off the phone w/Midwest Converter & they said because I said its driven on the street more often than on the track, they made it a little tighter. With it being so loose, It would generate alot more heat & ail the transmission sooner than later. When it comes time to launch on tires that stick, i'd notice a huge difference. We'll see, I've got some drag radials i'll take to the track this year.

Forest,
As soon as I hear from Brian on whether this Sunday is good for him to tune, i'll shoot you a call to confirm a time. :thumbsup See ya!

if you are using the lockup function it wouldnt make much more heat than stock at cruising speed.
besides,if you specified what you wanted for a stall why would they take it upon themselves to not make it what you want(within a few hundo rpm)

[Prince Valiant]

if you're footbraking and getting spin, it shouldn't really be too different from the old converter...spin at 2100 old should also result in spin at ~ the same rpm's new unless it's a junky converter...it's just the mechanics of how torque is transfered. What's important is the "flash" difference....


...in this case, traction is proving to be your limiting factor when footbraking...

[Korndogg]

If you get it wrong, you can destroy your tranny and converter.

ya. including the pump :mad:

[Syclone0044]

Here's a video of my truck doing a "boost launch" 0-60.

http://www.powertuneplus.com/syclone/images/tach_5000rpm.jpg

Click my tach for video! (http://www.powertuneplus.com/syclone/videos/vortec_21psi_0-60_launch.mpg)

Its a custom ~2700 RPM tight nitrous/blower converter from Yank. You can definitely get a feel for where this converter gets tight when you watch the tach as I brake-torque the engine. (Then you can hear the tires squeal when I let go and nail it :D)

[67-400]

Here's a video of my truck doing a "boost launch" 0-60.

http://www.powertuneplus.com/syclone/images/tach_5000rpm.jpg

Click my tach for video! (http://www.powertuneplus.com/syclone/videos/vortec_21psi_0-60_launch.mpg)

Its a custom ~2700 RPM tight nitrous/blower converter from Yank. You can definitely get a feel for where this converter gets tight when you watch the tach as I brake-torque the engine. (Then you can hear the tires squeal when I let go and nail it :D)


Thats a pretty nice demonstration of what I should be seeing then, huh? I couldn't get the best feel for the vid, I don't have sound at my work computer, i'll check it out when I get home. Clearly the tires weren't movin til the speedometer left "0". When its dry out, i'll take my car out again, just to see if I can get it to "Flash" up that high. So your converter is considered to be "Tight"? How is it when you drive on the street? Thanks for sharing your vid!!

[forest]

nice vid! shows converter comin on at around 2600ish.... hmmm.... 2700 stall eh? thats how a good converter should act.

[BAD LS1]

Lol only takes nearly a G note to get a converter that works though hahah

[BAD LS1]

Thats a pretty nice demonstration of what I should be seeing then, huh? I couldn't get the best feel for the vid, I don't have sound at my work computer, i'll check it out when I get home. Clearly the tires weren't movin til the speedometer left "0". When its dry out, i'll take my car out again, just to see if I can get it to "Flash" up that high. So your converter is considered to be "Tight"? How is it when you drive on the street? Thanks for sharing your vid!!

That thing has a great shift extension! Only falls back to about 4300 after the 5K shift! I need that for my 4.3... Prob take a 3200 converter to get it to do that behind the gutless wonder though.

[forest]

Lol only takes nearly a G note to get a converter that works though hahah

I know, Brad just threw down a G on his verter last week.....

[juicedimpss]

Lol only takes nearly a G note to get a converter that works though hahah

whats it cost for a clutch that holds up to the power levels a $1k convertor holds up to?
just out of curiousity.

[BAD LS1]

whats it cost for a clutch that holds up to the power levels a $1k convertor holds up to?
just out of curiousity.

Hahah well.. It was $500 for a spec stage V package that was supposed to deal with 1,000 HP... That cock sucker packed up and blew dodge in 900 miles with 750 ft lbs through it .

So now its 1200 into a mcleod twin disc setup. Still cheaper than a proper 4L80E swap for me to throw a good clutch at it and do refreshs on the trans yearly.

[juicedimpss]

So now its 1200 into a mcleod twin disc setup.

that is fairly close to the same.

[67-400]

http://www.converter.cc/faq/faq_main.htm#1

I guess I found a possible answer to my concern.....as it lists under "Difference between Brake Stall & Flash Stall." My rear brakes might be worth sh!t, the 4.10:1 gears may be pushin hard & the torque of the engine may be just overwhelming the street tires to beable to achieve its full stall capability of 3200. Maybe i'll throw on my drag-radials, pour some bleach down onto S.104th Street & warm up the tires....to see where that takes me :rolf

[PonyKiller87]

What rear brakes do you have? Stock rears Im guessing? If so thats part of it, the stock proportioning valve on 3rd gens doesnt send much force to the rears at all. With 3.27 gears in the back I have no problem over powering the rear discs with the brake pedal all the way down.

[67-400]

What rear brakes do you have? Stock rears Im guessing? If so thats part of it, the stock proportioning valve on 3rd gens doesnt send much force to the rears at all. With 3.27 gears in the back I have no problem over powering the rear discs with the brake pedal all the way down.

I have stock rear discs. In fact I'm not even sure if they've EVER been replaced, the car only has 48,000 original miles on it. (27,000 in which I put on) I know i've replaced the fronts last spring, w/some nice SSB slotted rotors & new pads, but I never touched the rears.

[PonyKiller87]

I have stock rear discs. In fact I'm not even sure if they've EVER been replaced, the car only has 48,000 original miles on it. (27,000 in which I put on) I know i've replaced the fronts last spring, w/some nice SSB slotted rotors & new pads, but I never touched the rears.

The're decent brakes, just not getting enough presure to do much. Most people that road race put an adjustable proportioning valve on and say they notice a huge difference in rear braking. Like I said with mine I can have the brake pedal down all the way and even with the weak ass 3.27 I can over power the brakes with ease.

[juicedimpss]

you can also mod the stock valve to get more rear bias.

[torque.hit]

http://www.converter.cc/faq/faq_main.htm#1

I guess I found a possible answer to my concern.....as it lists under "Difference between Brake Stall & Flash Stall." My rear brakes might be worth sh!t, the 4.10:1 gears may be pushin hard & the torque of the engine may be just overwhelming the street tires to beable to achieve its full stall capability of 3200. Maybe i'll throw on my drag-radials, pour some bleach down onto S.104th Street & warm up the tires....to see where that takes me :rolf

Exactly, the only way to tell true stall speed is with a trans brake. Traction will give out before stall speed in most cases.

Also, the AWD truck will see its stall speed because it can't really brake the tires loose while sitting still. The front brakes are usually stronger than the power being applied to them.

[67-400]

because it can't really brake the tires loose while sitting still.

That would be magical!! I'm sure some clown somewhere has claimed to have had an uncle or brother who could do that with his Eclipse with extra rice or whatever style AWD car! :rolf

[Syclone0044]

Thats a pretty nice demonstration of what I should be seeing then, huh? I couldn't get the best feel for the vid, I don't have sound at my work computer, i'll check it out when I get home. Clearly the tires weren't movin til the speedometer left "0". When its dry out, i'll take my car out again, just to see if I can get it to "Flash" up that high. So your converter is considered to be "Tight"? How is it when you drive on the street? Thanks for sharing your vid!!

Yeah the sound really helps to get a feel for it.

This converter is considered tight for an aftermarket "high stall converter". It drives very nice on the street!! That's the main reason I went with the Yank custom "PY3400E" model, the nice driveability. I drive my truck 99% on the street so I tried to get a balance between driveability and just enough stall to get the truck screaming off the line at the track. The higher the stall, the more top end you trade off and the "sloppier" the shifts get.

I agree with these guys that if your rear brakes are weak it could make your converter stall at an artificially low RPM. What about when you go up a steep hill? Does this converter act different than your old one? A steep hill is a great test to compare converter looseness.

[67-400]

Well, I took it out last night. I found a steep hill out in the sticks of Mukwonago & got it going nicely up the hill and the tach managed to come slip upwards of 3000ish while not feeling as if I was getting on it. When I was on a straight-a-way going 40 in "Drive" I punched it & it "Flashed" up to 3200 & took off. I guess this is all legitimate. What gave me the first impression of my concern was when I was breakin the tires loose at 2100 w/the brakes on. But I now know that the problem there resides in the resistance it takes the car stop the tires is too weak. I appreciate all of everyone's info in trying to figure this out! See ya round. btw, thats still a kickass vid, i heard it on my comp last night. 0-60 in what, 4 seconds? :thumbsup

[BAD LS1]

Well, I took it out last night. I found a steep hill out in the sticks of Mukwonago & got it going nicely up the hill and the tach managed to come slip upwards of 3000ish while not feeling as if I was getting on it. When I was on a straight-a-way going 40 in "Drive" I punched it & it "Flashed" up to 3200 & took off. I guess this is all legitimate. What gave me the first impression of my concern was when I was breakin the tires loose at 2100 w/the brakes on. But I now know that the problem there resides in the resistance it takes the car stop the tires is too weak. I appreciate all of everyone's info in trying to figure this out! See ya round. btw, thats still a kickass vid, i heard it on my comp last night. 0-60 in what, 4 seconds? :thumbsup

Seems like its just a pretty tight converter is all. Relief? haha

[forest]

glad u got the right stuff, see you sunday?

[67-400]

glad u got the right stuff, see you sunday?

I'm still waiting for an email from Brian. I will give him a call around lunch today to see what he's thinkin. I will let you know either way by tonight. Thanks for double checkin!