another candidate quiz

[Cryptic]

lets see if the results vary from the last one.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/interactives/candidatequiz/

[WickedSix]

Mr. Ron Paul for me this time.... no surprise there....

[pickardracing]

hillary again.....W T F

[Cjburn]

Ron Paul

[Breecher_7]

Ron Paul, but I will not be voting for him. He is an asshat.

[Yooformula]

ron paul for me

[oneslowcamino]

Ron Paul for me. I like a few of his ideas but I am not 100% sold yet.

[Al]

Hillary.

I had my priorities all along, she simply supports them.

[UnderPSI]

Ron Paul 24
Huckelberry 21
McCain 16

[Z28Roxy]

Billary (is this a surprise)

[Rocket Power]

Ron paul , not voting for him though.
This one was the inverse of the other one with McCain last.

I am probably voting for Hillary in the primary though, McCain is going to be the Repub nom. so I am just out to derail the obama train:goof

[Rocket Power]

Ron Paul, but I will not be voting for him. He is an asshat.

QFT

[Syclone0044]

Hey guys, I haven't logged in since 12-28-2007 but with Wisconsin's primary election coming up on Tuesday (Feb 19th) I wanted to make a statement about Dr. Ron Paul.

It is a real pleasant surprise to see so many people already supporting Ron Paul (or leaning in his direction). Between the last two threads, it sounds like 7 people fall in that list (including myself).

The list of people who sound like they might vote for Ron Paul if they knew more about him is: Karp's TA, Want_Notch, BlackViper, 07ROUSHSTG3, and Breecher_& and Rocket_Power.



What makes me so "Gung Ho" about Ron Paul? Simple, I've been waiting for a candidate like this all my life, ever since I was in grade school and they explained what the American Revolution was all about and what our Constitution means, and why we battled for our independence from the British kings.

All of those concepts, the meaning of REAL FREEDOM, real personal freedom and personal liberty, the right to do whatever you choose so long as it doesn't prevent anyone else from doing whatever they choose -- these are the concepts our country was founded upon. And they have been long forgotten, buried and ignored by ALL (99.9%) politicians - except RON PAUL.

Now that sounds like an extraordinary claim but just check his voting record - 10 terms in Congress as a Republican and he never voted for a tax increase (he's been in Congress since the 70's!) and never voted for anything that violates the Constitution. He's famous in Congress for voting "No" so much that they call him "Dr. No". (He really is a doctor, he was a Navy flight surgeon and then a private OB/GYN delivering 4000 babies).

This is the FIRST HONEST politician I have ever encountered. Just wait till you hear his speeches. Nothing like the other candidates.

Listen to at least the first 1-2 minutes of this speech and tell me you don't find this like a breath of fresh air to listen to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll7eDornsPg


Let me give you a handful of Ron Paul quotes I've collected from watching his campaign the last 6 months or so:

Ron Paul: "We need a strong president, strong enough to resist the temptation of taking power the President shouldn’t have."

Ron Paul: "The Constitution was written to restrain the government, never to restrain the people."

Ron Paul: "We don't have to tell our neighbor or our friend what he's gonna do with his life. As long as he minds his own business and doesn't tell US how to live OUR life!"

Ron Paul: "The biggest threat to your privacy is the government." (this is right on his front page ---> www.ronpaul2008.com )

Ron Paul: "I want a government that protects your privacy and exposes government secrecy. It's reverse of what we're getting."

The other candidates HAVE never and WILL NEVER say these things! Do you GET what I'm talking about? Ron Paul is talking very seriously about protecting the very freedom that we all take for granted. I don't want the government spying on our internet, reading our emails, ignoring the Constitution, chipping away at our rights. Nobody is standing up for us and we need someone who will do something about it before it's too late. George Bush makes it sound terrorists are hiding under all of our beds and so as a convenient excuse, we should give up all of our freedoms and liberties that make us Americans. Terrorist attacks per year probably add up to 0.01% of the amount of people killed in car accidents. Ron Paul says 'we should never have to give up even an ounce of our liberty to feel safe and secure'.

The other candidates don't even hold a candle to Ron Paul when it comes to economics. He happens to be an expert in the subject and intelligent enough to solve problems ROOT CAUSES, not just a "knee jerk reaction" to the most obvious symptoms..


Now the big news stations and main stream media HATES Ron Paul because he represents the total OPPOSITE of everything they stand for!! They stand for promoting the war, protecting special interests and lobbyists, huge corporations funding candidates etc. Ron Paul is the people's candidate - he doesn't get any special interest backings! They don't even go to his office because they know he will refuse. The media tries to censor Ron Paul and make him seen insignificant. Nonetheless, he managed to raise more money in the 4th quarter 2007 than ALL the other Republican candidates.

He also happens to get MORE donations from active military members than ALL other candidates combined - including democrats!! Ron Paul calls for immediate withdrawl from Iraq and calls the war a mistake in every debate. He was one of only 5 Representatives to have voted against the "Patriot Act". Ask yourself "Why do more troops support Ron Paul than anybody else, especially John McCain?"

If you don't think Ron Paul can win, watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9ukh_sDj6M

What Ron Paul really represents is the first candidate to be completely 100% represented by normal people like you and me. This is also 100% due to the Internet's uncensored, free information. Don't hold your breath for the media to tell you fair advice on which candidate is best for you!!! They are doing everything they can to call this race "over with" even though the damn election isn't until NOVEMBER! That's how they managed to artificially narrow the field down to 2 candidates every 4 years and both of them are the same old shit again and again..... nothing's ever different.

[Syclone0044]

The reason I brought up the economy is because anyone who follows the stock market or even watched the market for used hot rods knows we're in bad times heading for worse. The US Dollar is at an all time low (Canadian money is even worth more now, for the first time). This is because our government keeps printing money for all our wars around the world to maintain our bloated empire. And in FACT, this is the VERY REASON why all empires in history have ultimately collapsed (like the Roman Empire). Whenever our government prints more money through the Federal Reserve, all the dollars you and I already hold, become worth slightly less and less.

Pissed off about the price of oil? It's directly related to this. Look at the price of oil in US Dollars compared to gold or the Euro!!

http://i14.tinypic.com/8ajy8ad.gif


The other candidates barely address this HUGE problem whatsoever! Most of them don't even understand it, or just pay it a "token" respect by claiming they'll cut taxes. All the democrats want to have national health care. WHERE is the money going to come from!! Every other Republican (and some Democrats) want to wage war on Iran or maybe Pakistan. Where is that money coming from? Check out our position on this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_current_account_balance - DEAD LAST! Who is at the #1 position??

Finally if you still aren't convinced, I challenge you to watch this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=OS2fI2p9iVs

Then look here:
http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=141

[UnderPSI]

Welcome back Josh :thumbsup

[Prince Valiant]

Josh, while I have a great deal of respect for ron paul, and agree with many of the things he touts since his views are more libertarian and inline with mine, there are a couple of things you get drastically wrong in your glowing ron paul synopsis...first

What Ron Paul really represents is the first candidate to be completely 100% represented by normal people like you and me. No he's not.

A BIG portion of his support comes from 9/11 conspiracist "truthers", paranoid-big-brother types, anarchist, and those who just will support anyone who is for the legalization of drugs.

while I'm for legalizing of drugs, I can't even begin to come close to the others.

Proof of the bizzarre paranioa of ron paul supporters?


George Bush makes it sound terrorists are hiding under all of our beds and so as a convenient excuse, we should give up all of our freedoms and liberties that make us Americans. You will accuse someone of using fear/paranoia so that we willingly "give up all of our freedoms..."


I don't want the government spying on our internet, reading our emails, ignoring the Constitution, chipping away at our rights. Nobody is standing up for us and we need someone who will do something about it before it's too late. Using fear much? This is the same tired "losing all my freedom" rhetoric I hear time and again. Josh, NO ONE from the gov't is spying on YOUR internet. NO ONE is reading YOUR emails. NO ONE is listening to your phone calls. THERE IS NO SATELLITE CONTROLING YOUR MIND! Take off the tin foil cap :goof


Terrorist attacks per year probably add up to 0.01% of the amount of people killed in car accidents. Ron Paul says 'we should never have to give up even an ounce of our liberty to feel safe and secure'. This is disengenious...and for someone who fancies himself as learned in matter's of debate, a classic "straw man" (oversimplying an opposing posistion, then attacking it).

Guess what? Auto accidents aren't deliberate actions to incite fear and to recurite more to the cause. A random auto accident (or even a year's worth) don't change the make-up or outcomes of elections (see spain, pakistan), car accidents aren't instilled by groups to change the course of democratic (or other forms) of governments (look to beruit for this), or to, as a matter of PURPOSE, cause untold billions in economic damage. Terrorist don't aim to bring about their causes by simply killing everyone.

To belittle the threat and effects of terrorism because it's very unlikely to simply kill me, is very disingenious.

Even to suggest that terrorist are no threat if they are over there and not here is way off base and naive. They DO have the ability to threaten our interest, property, allies, and more without ever setting foot in this country. Not only that, they HAVE shown the willingness to do spectacular harm and damage to those interest and work against them. Whether ron paul likes it or not, the US and it's citizens DO have interest around the world that the gov't IS charged with protecting them...it IS a basic function of gov't.



Now the big news stations and main stream media HATES Ron Paul because he represents the total OPPOSITE of everything they stand for!! They stand for promoting the war, protecting special interests and lobbyists, huge corporations funding candidates etc. Now, I don't really see CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, NYT, WAH post, LA times, etc, etc out there "promoting the war", quite the contrary. One, you must assume that absolutely NO ONE in journalism has any integrity and is simply bowing to "special interest" and "huge corporations" to "promote" this war....and THEN, you must think they are doing a HORRID job of it, since MOST don't support the war in iraq.


The media tries to censor Ron Paul and make him seen insignificant. Nonetheless, he managed to raise more money in the 4th quarter 2007 than ALL the other Republican candidates. This doesn't precisely translate to number of people supporting him. His numbers in the polls are consistently in the 5-6% range, and any state he has done reasonable in tend to be depressed turnout cacuses in which his supporters are more than willing (and oddly have disportionate amounts of time) to stand around waiting out the usually 4 hour event.


He also happens to get MORE donations from active military members than ALL other candidates combined - including democrats!! Ron Paul calls for immediate withdrawl from Iraq and calls it a mistake in every debate. This is great, if only it were true...Obama recieves nearly as much, and is but a couple percentage points in terms of percent of all military contributions.

but is it really a criteria to vote for him?

Better yet; is it even impressive? When you lead a quarter in which you recieved 22,000 dollars in military donations when that same quarter someone like obama probably raked in over 30,000 million dollars in overall contributions, I don't know exactly what campaign contributions from the military is supposed to tell me....other than that the military is not a good place to seek contributions for a presidential campaign.

Rather more important, is how the grunts vote imo....


This is also 100% due to the Internet's uncensored, free information.Yes, and it's 100% accurate, NEVER wrong, completely balanced, NEVER contradicting, and holds itself to the highest standards in terms of sourcing and research. I mean, you damn near need to be a rocket scientist and and expert at writing peer review journal articles to get anything printed on it, lol.

The internet is great, and there are great resources out there....but you need a strong bs meter to get through it. I mean, it IS the internet that gives us this site:
http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/cosmicapollo.html
Yep, that's uncensored free information provided by the good ol' net.

Don't hold your breath for the media to tell you fair advice on which candidate is best for you!!! They are doing everything they can to call this race "over with" even though the damn election isn't until NOVEMBER! That's how they managed to artificially narrow the field down to 2 candidates every 4 years and both of them are the same old shit again and again..... nothing's ever different.I love the implication that WE must somehow be drones, who simply do what we are told. What? We are all sheep just waiting to be set free?

I mean, reason and objectivity should hint that, yes, the race is darn near over as far as the nomination in the party which Paul seeks...McCain IS about 75% the way to the nomination when you add his delegates. If someone like romney gave his support to McCain, he'd probably HAVE the nomination. As far as the "they", it seems their observations are reasonable and are given for reasons that are hardly nefarious. Plus, that race goes until the late summer, so NOT november as you suggest.

If paul is to mount a run for president, it'll have to be as a third party or write-in canidate.


comtinued....

[Prince Valiant]

The other candidates don't even hold a candle to Ron Paul when it comes to economics. He happens to be an expert in the subject and intelligent enough to solve problems ROOT CAUSES, not just a "knee jerk reaction" to the most obvious symptoms.. This m ay or may not actually be true...however, his solutions are somewhat implausible as far as getting them passed. Though it's sad that MANY believe he believes in getting rid of trade agreements in the name of protectionism, he actually believes gov't should have no role in trade, and trade agreements should be worked out between individuals/corporations. It's actually very sad to see that probably 90% of his suporters don't understand this.

I do agree with drastically changing the tax code, however, he and I would have different views on how they should change.

However, ron pauls understanding of the economy doesn't seem to translate to his supporters...evidence:

The reason I brought up the economy is because anyone who follows the stock market or even watched the market for used hot rods knows we're in bad times heading for worse. The US Dollar is at an all time low (Canadian money is even worth more now, for the first time). This is because our government keeps printing money for all our wars around the world to maintain our bloated empire. And in FACT, this is the VERY REASON why all empires in history have ultimately collapsed (like the Roman Empire). Whenever our government prints more money through the Federal Reserve, all the dollars you and I already hold, become worth slightly less and less.There are many reasons the dollar falls...but to state that it's because the feds are printing money to "maintain our bloated empire" just PROVES the lunacy to which ron paul voters tend to operate under. Sure the reason our dollar falls is because we print more money...but only because the feds have made it too easy for consumers to get more money, AND because of the easy availability of credit. To suggest, that it's the military's fault negates the fact that the so-called "military-industio-complex" actually takes up only 4% of our GDP (hardly a crushing weight even if every dollar the military recieved was simply "printed money").

MOST would realize that poor domestic policies and unbalanced spending by the federal gov't creates a weak dollar, however...some would rather advance their misguided view of the world and will state whatever to get their view across.:rolleyes:

And to through in that the cause of ALL empires (especially roman) have collapsed was due to falling monetary collapse is SO far off base...I mean, when was it decided to be the cause of the roman collapse? I believe (and a quick run to barnes-and-noble can confirm) that even just the ROMAN empire's collapse is the subject of intense debate and is comprised of MANY divers theories...and that is just the roman empire. Hardly "all" "empires" (another loaded statement, and the subject of much debate as it relates to the US). But, what is objectivity if it only get's in the way of your narative?


It's almost as if ron paul supporters (much like obama supporters) believe that he's some messianic figure though....like he can walk on water, bring world peace, provide security while doing nothing more than saying there are no threats to the US, make pot legal, change the monetary system, and bring the dead back to life, with just the stroke of a pen. Of course, what people fail to realize, is that's not how gov't works :rolleyes:



*now I wait for a BIG check from some HUGE corporation and some attaboy's from the biased media...oh, and the illuminati just called to congratulate me on being a good soldier boy, while the knights of templar plan to promote me to "grand-poo-bah* ;)

[Syclone0044]

Chris, obviously you and I could debate back and forth forever in an endless pissing match because we share incompatible points of view and incompatible standards of evidence and arguments. We'd be the only ones here reading it and probably wouldn't convince each other of a damn thing. With that said I will address a few things nonetheless:


No he's not.

A BIG portion of his support comes from 9/11 conspiracist "truthers", paranoid-big-brother types, anarchist, and those who just will support anyone who is for the legalization of drugs

while I'm for legalizing of drugs, I can't even begin to come close to the others. Where's your proof? This seems like a rather outrageous claim. I'm active in following the Ron Paul campaign and I can say that on the sites I've visited, most supporters want to keep distance from the 9/11 groups. Ron Paul is the first candidate in a damn long time to actually suggest critical analysis and checks & balances for our government (you know, the responsibilities the founding fathers charged us with and strongly recommended we carry out in order to ensure our liberty, in no uncertain terms.) So it's no surprise that any group critical of government secrecy would latch right onto Ron Paul. But it's quite a stretch to say that a "BIG portion of his support" comes from the fringe.

Ron Paul got 2nd place in a handful of states including 22% of the Republican vote in Washington state.. What percent of Washington state do you think are "9/11 truthers"? :rolleyes:


Using fear much? This is the same tired "losing all my freedom" rhetoric I hear time and again. Josh, NO ONE from the gov't is spying on YOUR internet. NO ONE is reading YOUR emails. NO ONE is listening to your phone calls. THERE IS NO SATELLITE CONTROLING YOUR MIND! Take off the tin foil cap :goof

Oh really, tell me why Bush is pushing so aggressively for (retroactive mind you!) immunity from the telecoms that were complicit in his illegal, warrantless wiretapping schemes?

It's people like you who will ultimately cause a loss of all of our freedom, because you don't understand the importance of protecting it. Our founding fathers did, and very well I might add.

The point about terrorists vs. car accidents is to put it into the proper perspective. It's NOWHERE near the threat that McCain/Bush claim it is. "The number one threat today is islamofacist extremists"... Give me a f'n break!


Even to suggest that terrorist are no threat if they are over there and not here is way off base and naive. They DO have the ability to threaten our interest, property, allies, and more without ever setting foot in this country. Not only that, they HAVE shown the willingness to do spectacular harm and damage to those interest and work against them. Whether ron paul likes it or not, the US and it's citizens DO have interest around the world that the gov't IS charged with protecting them...it IS a basic function of gov't. No, our government is not charged nor authorized to serve as the policemen of the world. When I was in gradeschool my entire class was already aware of this.

Ron Paul points out the obvious by explaining how our entangling involvement in foreign affairs stirs up a hornets nest of hate towards the US, and THAT really DOES make us more insecure and MORE likely to be attacked by terrorists, not less. Even a kindergartner playing in a sandbox could figure this out.


Yes, and it's 100% accurate, NEVER wrong, completely balanced, NEVER contradicting, and holds itself to the highest standards in terms of sourcing and research. I mean, you damn near need to be a rocket scientist and and expert at writing peer review journal articles to get anything printed on it, lol. You totally missed the point. Without the internet, average joes would never have the opportunity to be informed about a candidate who will protect them instead of protecting the establishment and the status quo (and the aggressive expansion of executive power that for some reason doesn't seem to frighten you).


I love the implication that WE must somehow be drones, who simply do what we are told. What? We are all sheep just waiting to be set free? We are average joes who by far and large, are FED editorial trash on TV masquerading as legitimate "news", or even brazenly advertized as "fair and balanced". When Ron Paul won 2nd place in Nevada, they only reported 1st, 3rd, and 4th place. Go check for yourself on Youtube, the clips should be easy to find.

The average voter is told by the news media who they should vote for and by far and large they comply. I have known this was wrong all my life. Why should we have to choose from just 2 men? We are free to select who ever is BEST to serve the job, not whoever is the best of the two status-quo slimebags that the media has told us is winning and so we should vote for the winners too, because don't you know it's like a horse race..... oh wait.. it isnt. :rolleyes::mad:


However, ron pauls understanding of the economy doesn't seem to translate to his supporters...evidence:
There are many reasons the dollar falls...but to state that it's because the feds are printing money to "maintain our bloated empire" just PROVES the lunacy to which ron paul voters tend to operate under. Sure the reason our dollar falls is because we print more money...but only because the feds have made it too easy for consumers to get more money, AND because of the easy availability of credit. To suggest, that it's the military's fault negates the fact that the so-called "military-industio-complex" actually takes up only 4% of our GDP (hardly a crushing weight even if every dollar the military recieved was simply "printed money").

Defense spending 20% of our 2006 budget. Source:
http://www.gao.gov/cghome/d08465cg.pdf (from this site: http://www.gao.gov/special.pubs/longterm/wakeuptour.html)

You're arguing with me why the dollar falls but you aren't addressing the real issue. It needs to be reversed to prevent catastrophe, but the only way is to dramatically cut our spending. ONLY RON PAUL is serious about cutting spending! Remember this? http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=141


It's almost as if ron paul supporters (much like obama supporters) believe that he's some messianic figure though....like he can walk on water, bring world peace, provide security while doing nothing more than saying there are no threats to the US, make pot legal, change the monetary system, and bring the dead back to life, with just the stroke of a pen. Of course, what people fail to realize, is that's not how gov't works :rolleyes:
Ron Paul is the first and only politican I'm aware of who speaks the truth, doesn't have special interest groups funding him, and has a 20-30 year voting record of always saying the same thing. Watch the YouTube videos from the 80's of Ron Paul. He's saying the exact same thing he always has. This ALONE would make him worth voting for because at least you know he will do what he says, not like Bush who got elected in 2000 on a "humble foreign policy, no nation building".

You strongly underestimate Ron Paul supporters... they are the most well informed out there, that's why they are Ron Paul supporters to begin with and that's why Ron Paul dominates the internet. Because the most well educated voters are found on the internet and Ron Paul's message is not easily understood nor well represented in a 5 second sound bite. Trust me, most Ron Paul supporters have done plenty of homework on the federal reserve, our currency system, what is the "president's working group on financial markets", world history, etc. Much more so than all the people who are voting on premises like "I'm a female. She's a female! We're a match made in heaven!"

[pOrk]

There is a reason Ron Paul caters to so many different groups of people, because what he says makes sense.

Saying he is an asshat is retarded Tony, why not put up something a bit more intelligent then name calling? Its obvious your a Hillary supporter if thats how you reply in a thread like this.

Look at voting history of Obama, Hillary, Mccain, and Paul. Dr. Paul is the ONLY one of the four who has voted constitutionally EVERY TIME even when it was against his personal opinion. Thats what this country needs, our forefathers drafted the constitution for a reason and more lately then ever has it been stomped out and pissed on.

[UnderPSI]

obama probably raked in over 30,000 million dollars


I wish I had that much money...Thirty thousand-Million!!! That sounds like a lot.

[Prince Valiant]

Where's your proof? This seems like a rather outrageous claim. :rolleyes: just some quick google links to prove the supportive elements:
ron paul's uncomfortable history with 9/11 conspiracist (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=ron+paul++9/11+conspiracy&spell=1)
ron paul is attractive to people whose sole agenda is legalization (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ron+paul++drug+legalization)
why anarchist should vote Ron Paul (http://www.philaahzophy.com/2007/09/05/applied-anarchy-why-anarchists-should-vote-for-ron-paul/)


I'm active in following the Ron Paul campaign and I can say that on the sites I've visited, most supporters want to keep distance from the 9/11 groups. Oh, believe me, I didn't accuse ALL ron paul supporters of wanting any part of a 9/11 conspiracist group...I've followed ron paul by proxy to my brother whose active in his campaign here in wisconsin...and while anectdotal evidence can certainly be unreliable, I'd say roughly half the commited ron paul supporters went off on "conspiracy" rants. Do I think it's half his supporters? No, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's 25%.

Certainly from your diatribes, I'd count you in as one.


Ron Paul is the first candidate in a damn long time to actually suggest critical analysis and checks & balances for our governmentFirst, hyperbole aside, you are wrong. MANY canidates have argued against the unchecked power of the president and it's dangers, MANY have argured against congress's abuse of it's powers, MANY have argued against an overactive and pro-active supreme court. Either you just haven't really followed politics closely, or again, knowingly ignore the truth to advance your narrative.

Notice, I did not fault Ron Paul's stand on checks and balances (but notice, I also do not agree with his current assessment), so please...quit setting up these "straw men"


So it's no surprise that any group critical of government secrecy would latch right onto Ron Paul. But it's quite a stretch to say that a "BIG portion of his support" comes from the fringe.
Actually, Paul's support is rather small...so virtually ANY of these "groups" constitutes a rather large portion of his small following.


Ron Paul got 2nd place in a handful of states including 22% of the Republican vote in Washington state.. What percent of Washington state do you think are "9/11 truthers"? :rolleyes:Okay...here's where it gets REAL easy to show how you are either being willfully ignorant or just plain out lying and propogandizing:

I DID say the only states he has done well in are in caucuses. This is true. The best he did in a PRIMARY state is 3rd place...with a WHOPPING 3% of the vote total.

Furthermore, your statement implies either by poor wording on your part, or willful deception or ignorance, that he got 2nd in washington state...this isn't true, he got 3rd there.

In fact, his only TWO 2nd place finish (2 is appearently a "handful" on your planet) were caucuses....montana and nevada.

Now, claiming 22% of the vote in washington is impressive! Or is it? Giving the hoops that one has to jump through to vote in a caucus, (show up at a set time, usually evening so second shifters/families with other plans/events/ basically people who AREN'T fanatical about politics) that turnout is usually below 5% of the voting public. Get some fanatical followers to show up (as ron paul certainly has) with such a low turnout, and viola, skewed results! Like I said, your claims of a groundswell of support are VERY easily refuted by the numbers especially since 34 of the 50+ primaries have occured, and he's only recieved 16 of the required 1175 (or so) delegates to get the nomination.




Oh really, tell me why Bush is pushing so aggressively for (retroactive mind you!) immunity from the telecoms that were complicit in his illegal, warrantless wiretapping schemes? You mean the one the democratic controlled Senate passed today? Maybe because there IS value in listening in on suspected terrorist whenever their call is intercepted coming into the country (which is the nature of the program)? Maybe because they have to catch them despite the fact they never know where the call is coming from? Perhaps because each call that is monitered without a warrant and that the gov't wants to continue to moniter goes before a panel of judges that then issues a warrant if they deem neccessary (IE no further action can occur without probable cause)? Perhaps because they were ruled as NOT being illegal DESPITE the inaccurate portrayal of it being a program that listens in on regular US citizens without ever getting said warrant? Besides that the US senate intelligence comittee approved the program (IE, fufilling the neccessary "check & balance") prior to the programs commission?

Again, you challenge me for proof...I challenge you for proof of abuse of said program.


It's people like you who will ultimately cause a loss of all of our freedom, because you don't understand the importance of protecting it. :rolleyes: Boy, you're digging yourself a deep one Josh.

Trust me, I would argue that I better understand the protection of freedom FAR better than you....


The point about terrorists vs. car accidents is to put it into the proper perspective. It's NOWHERE near the threat that McCain/Bush claim it is. "The number one threat today is islamofacist extremists"... Give me a f'n break!Really? Why, pray tell HOW has terrorism NOT affected the world and us. I just gave you some pretty DAMN clear examples of how it affects us. Pretty unrefuteable too....so I'm curious to see what kind of bizarre leaps of logic you put forth on this one.

I mean, hell, take pakistan for example...it's likely next prime minister WON'T be it's next prime minister...she got burried a while ago. Look at Lebenon and the number of democratically elected gov't officials mudered by terrorist there...you don't think that's drastically changed the make-up of the gov't in these countries? Look how they seek the destruction of our allies (well, and Us as they have said countless times). Look how they wish to rule Iraq....now do you REALLY think an Iraq run by fanatics intent on world domination is a "nuetral" thing? Hell, they pretty much run Iran and look at how that's been a thorn in our interest. Hey, newsflash; non-intereventionism sounds great...but it's never worked. History is replete with examples of it's failures.


No, our government is not charged nor authorized to serve as the policemen of the world. When I was in gradeschool my entire class was already aware of this. Do you deny that the US doesn't have interest elsewhere? Do you deny that we make investments (as citizens) and claim ownership (again, as private citizens) elsewhere in the world? Do you deny that it is NOT benificial to the US for certain regions to be stable?

Again, this is another strawman debate as I never SAID we should be "world police". I could give a rat's ass as to what happens in Somolia, Hati, Croatia, Darfur, Tibet, etc....the US has virtually NO interest in assurring the stability there and it's relative stability or lack of does not affect us. Stability in the Middle east, however, and it's a whole different ball-game.





...continued...

[Prince Valiant]

Ron Paul points out the obvious by explaining how our entangling involvement in foreign affairs stirs up a hornets nest of hate towards the US, and THAT really DOES make us more insecure and MORE likely to be attacked by terrorists, not less. Even a kindergartner playing in a sandbox could figure this out. Your level of name calling could at LEAST be a little more creative Josh :durr

Actually, it shows the arrogance of his thinking. WE created this mess. WE made them hate us. WE got what was coming to us.

Hardly. Why do radical muslims hate us? We aren't muslims...this they have said. If it was all about us, why then do we hear of muslims attacking people in Bali. In the philipines. In morrocco. In spain. In Libya. In egypt. In lebenon. Citizens in Iraq. Afghanistan. Pakistan. India. Somolia. Sudan. Yemen. Bhurma. Chechyna. I mean the list goes ON and ON and ON.

But of course, radical islam really isn't a problem. No, we must need safer cars and better seatbelt laws :rolleyes: (<<see, creative use of straw man AND put down).


You totally missed the point. Without the internet, average joes would never have the opportunity to be informed about a candidate who will protect them instead of protecting the establishment and the status quo Because the founding fathers had internet?!?

No, you missed the point Josh...the internet isn't 1) The ONLY source of good informantion and 2) It has more than it's share of bunk, unverified, unsourced, tripe.


We are average joes who by far and large, are FED editorial trash on TV masquerading as legitimate "news", or even brazenly advertized as "fair and balanced". When Ron Paul won 2nd place in Nevada, they only reported 1st, 3rd, and 4th place. Go check for yourself on Youtube, the clips should be easy to find.Of course, because again, everything on you-tube is fair and balanced itself. Boy, Micheal moore has an audience for life.

I will say this....if you REALLY think that it was never reported that Paul got second in Nevada, even by fox, you really really have issues. I can't watch youtube where I am now, but I assure you I'll watch the clip when I get home. It'll be interesting.

But again, within the ron paul movement there is such fever-pitch "it's a giant global corporate media conspiracy against us" vibe that it's sickening.


The average voter is told by the news media who they should vote for and by far and large they comply. I have known this was wrong all my life. Yes Josh. We know. We are all sheep. We are too stupid to see this. We need a mesiah. Could you lead us, all of us, to the promised land? We'll follow you in the desert for 40 years if need be.

We are thankfull for your return. :rolleyes:




Defense spending 20% of our 2006 budget. Source:
http://www.gao.gov/cghome/d08465cg.pdf (from this site: http://www.gao.gov/special.pubs/longterm/wakeuptour.html)

You're arguing with me why the dollar falls but you aren't addressing the real issue. :rolleyes: No, I refuted your claim that the falling dollar is due to (to paraphrase) "global wars to support our bloated empire to save us from falling liek the roman's did because ALL empires decline due to falling dollars, blah blah blah" :rolleyes:

I believe the federal budget needs to be cut in half. I don't think the military budget needs to be touched at all. However, while I feverently believe this, I am not SO stupid that even if Ron Paul were to ascend to presidendcy, this would happen. Hello? Do we need to teach you how a budget get's passed? The only way to balance the budget is to hold the line on spending against (if not get relatively small cuts) a growing economy and let the tax base grow against it. Once the budget is balanced, the monetary value (not quite "crisis") will begin to restore.


Ron Paul is the first and only politican I'm aware of who speaks the truth,Yes...Ron Paul is Jesus. This we know.


...not like Bush who got elected in 2000 on a "humble foreign policy, no nation building". Of course, you and disenguinity go together like penut butter and jelly. Because, of course, everything is the same as it was in 2000?



...You strongly underestimate Ron Paul supporters... they are the most well informed out there, that's why they are Ron Paul supporters to begin with and that's why Ron Paul dominates the internet. Because the most well educated voters are found on the internet and Ron Paul's message is not easily understood nor well represented in a 5 second sound bite. Trust me, most Ron Paul supporters have done plenty of homework on the federal reserve, our currency system, what is the "president's working group on financial markets", world history, etc. Much more so than all the people who are voting on premises like "I'm a female. She's a female! We're a match made in heaven!" If there was any doubt as to the lunacy of Ron Paul's internet supporters, THIS paragraph removed it.

Yes, you, and ALL ron paul supporters are the smartest, bestest, most free-thinking, creative voters in the world. They are all found on the internet too. Yeah. Okay :thumbsup:

You also forgot "modest" :rolf

[Prince Valiant]

I wish I had that much money...Thirty thousand-Million!!! That sounds like a lot.Good one...I nominate you BCM editor-for-life. :rolleyes:

:D

[USMARINE1108]

I would like to hear from a Ron Paul supporter why they think his foreign policy is a good idea.

[SSDude]

McCain 55pts

Ron Paul 35pts

Huckster 48pts

It would seem they all have some qualities i like but I really don't like any of them. It becomes a choice of the lesser evil.:fire

[05caddyext]

Anyone watch Obama in Racine just a few minutes ago? He said that he would make illegals learn English. That's awesome. I still don't like him, but you gotta love that comment. I can't believe he actually said that on live tv, could be really bad for his campaign.

[Prince Valiant]

Beautiful Josh...I looked up Ron Paul/Nevada/Fox News.

I kept an open mind.

I looked up the clips you speak of here.


We are average joes who by far and large, are FED editorial trash on TV masquerading as legitimate "news", or even brazenly advertized as "fair and balanced". When Ron Paul won 2nd place in Nevada, they only reported 1st, 3rd, and 4th place. Go check for yourself on Youtube, the clips should be easy to find.

Here is the link:
Faux News: Ron Paul gets unfair coverage Nevada Caucuses (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB-Vrf7ThDw)

:eek: Wow. You opened my eyes. NO coverage in that clip.

Of course, I also noted that LESS THAN (IE < ) 1% of the results were in. I also noted that ONLY the three front runner's were covered until that point...IE Romney, McCain, Huckabee....the only three that really had delegates even at that point.

:wow Thank GOD for the fair, balanced and reasoned internet that got me the TRUE story. The WHOLE story.

Actually, what is REALLY funny. And REALLY telling is this clip here:
Ron Paul COMPLETELY LEFT OUT...until a couple minutes later (~2:10 minutes in AND RIGHT AFTER THE FIRST CLIP ENDS!!!) when IT WAS reported by FAUX NEWS (unfair and unbalanced-ZING!!!) THAT RON PAUL WAS TIED WITH McCAIN AND ON AND ON.... (http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L5dYzu1w9k)

REVOLUTION!!!!
TO tHE STREET YOU BLIND SHEEP!!! :rolf

Faux news must have faked it after the fact...just to keep the wool of our eyes. How could we be so BLIND!!! Makes me so :mad: !!!

Sorry...maybe the internet is a poor source of information...unless of course your MO is to simply find facts as you WANT them to be.

:rolleyes:

Pathetic. Completely.

[Rocket Power]

Anyone watch Obama in Racine just a few minutes ago? He said that he would make illegals learn English.
How about making them go back to wherever they came from? They are Illegals afterall

[05caddyext]

He said that it would be impossible for any candidate to claim that they could just round up all the illegals and deport them.

[Rocket Power]

It's also impossible to make them learn english:goof

[Syclone0044]

Here's the bottom line on Ron Paul. If you want real freedom for yourself, to conduct your personal business on your own without government intrusion, and the freedom to keep more of YOUR money via less taxes, Ron Paul is the guy for you.

He's the only candidate to even talk about restoring and protecting our personal freedom, and our civil liberties. These are the most important rights we could possibly have. Without those rights, we are at the mercy of our government's whims.

"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." — Thomas Jefferson

Ron Paul calls himself a "strict Constitutionalist". This means he takes great offense when our current politicians trample over the Constitution by ignoring it, or outright violating it and then claiming that's allowed under "executive privilege".

The Constitution and our founding fathers all went to great lengths to restrict the government and ensure that it would remain a servant to the people, and never a situation where the people were servants to the government. Ron Paul is the first presidential candidate I have encountered who seriously understands this concept. When you take a serious look into the candidates (by that I mean doing your own investigation) you will realize that Ron Paul sticks out like a sore thumb compared to Obama, Clinton, McCain, and Huckabee. Those 4 represent the same thing our government has been for the last few decades. Ron Paul represents the government of 1776 (at least in my opinion). Freedom never goes out of style. One of Ron Paul's campaign slogans is: "Freedom is popular!"


Now I'm sure I'll get some more snappy remarks from Prince Valiant (who has yet to share his convictions on his pick for presidential candidate, so we might also have the opportunity to tear them to shreds...). Nonetheless, my vote will go to Ron Paul.

[Syclone0044]

I would like to hear from a Ron Paul supporter why they think his foreign policy is a good idea.

Our current foreign policy seems to have us acting like we're the police of the world, no matter the cost. They say the US spends more on defense than all the other countries in the world, combined. And you and I pay for every last cent.

But this policy of meddling with other countries' internal affairs doesn't guarantee we will become more secure. It often makes us LESS secure by pissing off a lot of people who resent our imposition. How would we feel if China came over and installed military bases and bombed our people?

Right off Ron Paul's website (http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/war-and-foreign-policy): "Too often we give foreign aid and intervene on behalf of governments that are despised. Then, we become despised. Too often we have supported those who turn on us, like the Kosovars who aid Islamic terrorists, or the Afghan jihadists themselves, and their friend Osama bin Laden. We armed and trained them, and now we’re paying the price."

Have you seen the photo of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein in the early 80's? We backed Iraq and sold them weapons. What The Hell? :confused The founding fathers warned us to stay out of "entangling alliances".

Ron Paul's foreign policy is the policy of anyone who wants to get along with the rest of the world. Stay out of other people's affairs and mind your own business. (with an added bonus of a HUGE tax savings)

[That_Guy]

i got huckabee.

no problem there. lol what a losing battle though

[Prince Valiant]

Now I'm sure I'll get some more snappy remarks from Prince Valiant (who has yet to share his convictions on his pick for presidential candidate, so we might also have the opportunity to tear them to shreds...). Nonetheless, my vote will go to Ron Paul.:rolf

You are a f*cking loser josh.


Here's my pick:
Guys,

I'm here to talk about my favorite canidate: Lydon LaRouche!

Here's is a man that was once called by NSC staffer as "one of the best private intelligence services in the world."

You want a guy to stick up for your personal and civil liberties? You want a guy who'll fight the so called New World Order (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_(conspiracy))? You want a guy that'll rid the world of the poisonous influence of Jews? Larouche is your man then!

Here's a guy who has been fighting the men in black suits in black helicopter with black guns and black sunglasses, with black underwear since before you were born.

Millard Filmore once said:

May God save the country, for it is evident that the people will not.

Now, I don't know what this has to do with Lyndon Larouche, but, doesn't it sound good?

Anyways, back to my main point. Almost as much as any other canidate, Larouche has been able to rally anti-semites, neonazi's, and anti-govt' conspiracist. Isn't that the kind of guy you want in the White House?

How hard is Larouche fighting for you? SO hard that the US gov't is actually trying to destroy him at this very momement. It is so bad, he had to get Saddam's own Lawyer (ramsey clark) to defend him. And, unlike all these other "crazy"
conspiracy theories (http://crazy-clips.blogspot.com/2006/08/craziest-conspiracy-theories.html) that some "others (http://www.ronpaulsupporters.com/)" try to peddle ( :rolleyes: ) this one is the REAL deal.

I mean, you are all tired when you walk out the door and some dude nearly falls in because he was trying to listen in to what you were doing right? Then Vote LaRouche.

If you are tired of being on the phone with your g/f (if you are so lucky), putting it down for a second, and then some NSA-secret spy agent dude is already talking to your girl! Like WTF?!? Well, then, Vote LaRouche!

We've ALL had that thing were we send an email to our boss, and in the reply it's OBVIOUSLY been changed to try us make us look bad in the work place! Vote LaRouche!

And don't even GET me started on the twice yearly proctol exams! Vote LaRouche.

Listen, he has been saying the SAME thing, every YEAR since the 50's! How can the man be wrong. I mean, that's the ONLY reason I'm voting for him.

He does everything. Song and dance to walking on water. HE'S THE ONLY CANIDATE THAT CAN DO THESE THINGS!!!

I mean, he recognizes that everything centers on us. You know that kid in somolia blown up by a grenade? Because of the USA, biotches. You know that old lady in Japan that stub her toe in a dojo? G*shD*rn George W. Bush fault. Remember...in the 90's about how he talked about how pug rodriguez was a "great catcher"??? Yeah, sure. NOW look at us! "great catcher" indeed :rolleyes:

Oh but sure! I'm just SO sure that Syclone0044 will come up with "reasons", or "facts", and probably be like all "objective" with it. He'll probably "break down" my "shallow, empty rhetoric," using some fairly "simple logic" like he's just "much smarter" than me or something. And when I am completely unable to come back with anything resembling an "argument" for my canidate, I'll just "recycle" more "tired, untrue, hyperbole"

And THEN, I'll REALLY zing that Syclone0044. Oh yeah. Just you wait and see.


Because there is one thing I know, the because of the internet and Larouche supporters are the smartest, least programed, free-est-est-er-est thinkers in the world. WE know how to defend freedom! VOTE LAROACHE NOW!

...and I didn't exagerate at all :rolf

BTW Josh...did you see the protest of McCain by Ron Paul Supporters?
Paul backers rally against McCain (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=718812)
About a half-dozen Ron Paul fans staged a mini-protest outside the La Crosse hotel where John McCain held a town hall meeting Friday, saying the Arizona senator is too liberal to deserve the Republican presidential nomination. "mini-protest"? Even that's charitable.

:D

[Prince Valiant]

Oh, and btw you f^cktard loser (ie Josh), if you EVER want to debate the constitution, please....bring it!:devil

[SSDude]

Here's my pick:
Guys,

I'm here to talk about my favorite canidate: Lydon LaDouche!


Wow........


We can argue all day about who the best candidate is but what everyone forgets is these A$$hat candidates can't keep any of their promises, unless what they want makes it through the House and the Senate.
Until we are represented by people who listen to their constituents nothing will change.
The best we can hope for is a president who's party is in the minority to reduce the erosion of our freedoms.:thumbsup

[Prince Valiant]

Wow........yeah, I'm pretty good at being facetious. ;)