Tougher Emissions Regulations Could Bring End to Muscle Cars, Says GM

[DynoTom]

DETROIT — When General Motors Corp. pulls the cover off a new supercharged version of the Corvette at the Detroit auto show next month, it will unveil a performance car designed to rival or better even the fastest, most expensive exotic cars from Europe.

But the Corvette's chief engineer says the 2009 Corvette ZR1 may be the last in a long tradition of Detroit performance cars, endangered by stronger federal fuel economy regulations and limits on carbon dioxide emissions.

"High-performance vehicles such as this may actually be legislated out of existence," Tadge Juechter said at a recent showing of the ZR1, which is designed to have around 620 horsepower.

President Bush on Wednesday signed into law legislation that will bring more fuel-efficient vehicles into auto showrooms and require wider use of ethanol, calling it "a major step" toward energy independence and easing global warming.

The legislation requires automakers to increase fuel efficiency by 40 percent to an industry average 35 miles per gallon by 2020.

But Juechter said to sell one of the Chevrolet supercars, GM would need to offset that with cars that get 45 mpg.

"It could really be an endangered species," he said.

Aaron Bragman, an auto analyst with the consulting firm Global Insight, said predicting the death of the muscle car might be premature.

The Corvette, he said, is fuel efficient when compared with its competitors. Although fuel economy figures weren't released for the ZR1, the current 505-horsepower Corvette ZO6 gets an estimated 15 mpg in the city and 24 on the highway, according to GM.

The ZR1, he said, gets around the same mileage as a Chevrolet pickup truck, and GM won't be getting out of the pickup business because of gas mileage standards.

"I think it's a little over-dramatization," Bragman said. "GM wants to sell big, high-performance, fun cars. And typically that's what Americans want to buy."

Performance cars of the future may be powered by smaller engines or electric motors, he said, but they won't die.

The ZR1 will have a top speed of more than 200 mph, driven by an all-new supercharged 6.2-liter V-8 engine. It has 19-inch front and 20-inch rear wheels and a suspension tuned to provide extraordinary cornering grip, GM said.

The car has a carbon-fiber hood, fenders and roof for weight savings, and its huge carbon-ceramic brake rotors give it great stopping power, the company said.

The ZR1 will cost around $100,000 and probably will go on sale next summer.

[jbiscuit]

they will probably come out with more hybrid-type cars to offset the poor fuel economy of the truck line and performance cars like the Vettes. Cuz not only does this affect the Corvette but also the entire truck line-up as well. I can't see the Silverado going away anytime soon

[07ROUSHSTG3]

they will figure something out. more ethanol based motors or some crazy turbo setups on a little clean burning diesel!?!?! they will have to do something to keep the trucks around and that technology will trickle down to the car lines.

granted, i dont think that we will ever hear the "big block" growl anymore, but sports cars will never die. and remember the aftermarket will still be around.

[Crawlin]

Isn't that the WHOLE reason Nissan was bringing the "Skyline" or whateverto the US soon? They had enough fuel efficient vehicles to meet US standards, that they'd still be above that average if they brought the skyline over here for the future.

All I see is smaller displacement forced induction performance cars like the imports have been doing. An E85 based 327 Vette w/ twin turbo's and D.O.D. Using the ethanol blends, and using technology to help boost that fuel mileage. Just start putting the D.O.D. on every model and you'll find a way to keep the Vette. But NOW, that government legislature just boosted MSRP's by about 10% instead of the 1% we normally see each quarter.

Tahoe's and Burban's have it now. Silverado(i forgot if it already has it or not) will get it very soon with this legistlature. It's the same friggen engines(5.3L wise)

[Mr Twigbert]

I've been waiting for this such thing to happen.. Then, a good 5 years after these harsh limitations and production of high horsepower cars stopps you will see a spike in value of current high horsepower cars.. Once they cut them out the people that have them will have a smile on their faces..

[Karps TA]

What kills me is that somehow the govt wants higher mileage standards yet they want more ethanol usage. That seems to directly oppose each other. Unless Mr. Fusion is coming out soon.

[jbiscuit]

electric-powered cars on the horizon! OOOOOO GOBS of torque!

[Smokey1226]

electric-powered cars on the horizon! OOOOOO GOBS of torque!

thats an understatement!!! They make NASTY torque numbers! Enough to sheer U-Joints like they were nothing. :headbang

[GHOSST]

Tight arse economy.. I say we burn it all (gas) until its gone! AMERICA's BIG BIG AND BAD! AND WE LIKE ARE ENGINES BIGGER! AAAAAHHHH, Fark...

[Prince Valiant]

What kills me is that somehow the govt wants higher mileage standards yet they want more ethanol usage. That seems to directly oppose each other. Unless Mr. Fusion is coming out soon.So far the E85 cars help the cafe numbers because of how they figure it....

IE one car gets 30mpg on gasoline, therefore it uses only 3.333 gallons of gasoline to travel 100 miles.

Whereas that same car burning e85 gets 20mpg. But, it only burned 0.75 gallons of gasoline to travel 100 miles...so for cafe numbers, it was as if the car gets ~ 133.3 MPG...

This is why you see many of the "big selling" cars having e85 capability (impala, malibu, 1500 series pick-ups, etc).

Now, it doesn't matter that only 1% of all those flex fuel vehicle sold actually uses e85 on a regular basis...the calculations count as if they all burn e85 all the time.

Now, the dude who says not to fret oversimplifies it too...from what I understand, they no longer will have two serperate catagories for "car" and "truck" as they do now.

Now, as it is, car's are figured seperately, and have their own cafe standards from trucks. This is why though you see manufactuers come out with near 30mpg vehicles like the HHR and PT cruiser, that are classified as "trucks" as they help the corporate truck cafe figures.

So not only making the jump from 27 to 35mpg difficult enough with cars only, now figure that HALF your auto sales that have been trucks that have gotten a 20MPG CAFE, will now have to go into figuring the new 35mpg standard (a more reasonable solution would have been to take away the car/truck designation and just try to achieve 27mpg CAFE figure again).

Take this away, and you'll have to not only BUILD super efficient small cars to dramatically help the CAFE figures, but you'll have to SELL a ton of them...this is the hard part.

In the past, whenever legislation has enacted higher cafe standards, what do the consumers do?

They've simply purchased bigger cars...last time eschewing the car offerings and going for the "truck" offerings. Now, what can they do? Not much...the only thing that people will be able to purchase with a "free ride" for the CAFE numbers are the 3/4-1 ton based vehicles. Otherwise, every SUV/1500 series truck sold will be a kick in the groin of the automakers. Probably say goodbye to the big or mid-size SUV's (this might be a reason JEEP could be sold off from the chrysler holdings too) and all you'll see is car based smaller SUV's.

But this is why these legislation gambits really don't work. The consumer that WANTS super economical cars buy them. If enough wanted them you'd see manufactuers scrambling to fill the void...

[GHOSST]

thou art trully a prince, a prince of knowledge.

[formul8]

Ethanol is just a scheme by the EPA to use all the corn that the Government pays farmers to grow and have no other uses for.

If the government wants a zero emissions vehicle fleet, it isn't going to be powered by gasoline or ethanol....

I thought Trucks over certain classifications were on a different CAFE standard than cars?

[lordairgtar]

That ain't all, folks. Wait till you here the next EPA rule. You won't be able to ever paint your own car unless you invest in some mega-buck technology to removed the bad stuff out of the air while spraying. Small shops and hobbyists will have to pay someone else to do the work. It's coming, people, the anti-car crowd is coming after your street rod, race car, dragster, sports car, etcetera. We will all be driving electric mini-vans or Smart cars.

[GRAMPS SS]

does this mean no CAMARO......

[GTSLOW]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22340556/

There will still be a camaro, but after that who knows? When I was picking up my truck they had a gt500 on the floor. 2k in gas guzzler tax, what a crock of shit!

[70challenger452]

fvckin liberals!, god damn it, telling us how to live our lives, what we can and can't drive, I'm driving old vehilces till the day I drive, in spite, I say we all invest in more leaded race fuel, fight!!!

[lordairgtar]

People need to stand up to the EPA. Companies like GM and Ford and all the rest should as well. What are they going to do? Send in troops?

[Al]

It's all bullshit.

GM will eventually follow VAG and put diesels in their performance cars.

To keep weight down, GM will also copy BMW with their magnesium engine blocks.

By this time, I will be making my own algae biodiesel and only pay the $.40/gal tax whenever I fill up.

[Syclone0044]

The most effective solution would be for people to stop reproducing themselves at an exponential rate, and then our fossil fuels would last a hell of a lot longer!!

[Poncho]

The most effective solution would be for people to stop reproducing themselves at an exponential rate, and then our fossil fuels would last a hell of a lot longer!!

so you're saying kill the babies or kill the old people?

[Syclone0044]

There's actually a better solution than killing anyone. Prevent births in the first place. Real simple.

Every day in the United States, over 11,000 new babies are added to our population. Babies that will grow up to have families owning several vehicles and a home consuming fossil fuels. But for the last 65 Million years, no new dinosaurs have died to form fossil fuels.

Do you see the problem? Our best supply of energy (fossil fuels) is constantly diminishing yet the vast majority of people think it's a good idea to not only continue the rate of consumption, but actually to accelerate it exponentially via population explosion.

Do you think 40% better fuel mileage in 10 years can even scratch a dent in the amount of additional fuel consumption by new families over the same time period? We might as well be pissing into the wind.

Of course our government doesn't REALLY give a shit about any of this. Right now it's the topic du jour because there's a big group of farmers who stand to contribute a lot of political money to the powers that be, so they can profit off the rise in price of corn. Politician's think that's fantastic. But they aren't really concerned with the actual rate of fuel consumption, or else they would focus on the prime cause of consumption - increased population. Instead you have the Bush administration sponsoring "Faith based initiatives" (taxpayer money spent to promote religious viewpoints) and providing "abstinence based" sex education in our schools, which basically amounts to naive and/or religious parents burying their head in the sand and pretending that unmarried people don't have sex (including people under the age of 18). Who here is unmarried, and still a virgin? A show of hands?

Instead, they could provide standard birth control pills to greatly reduce population growth but the largest religion in the country (Christianity) has a leader who says contraception is "bad" and the bible promotes the idea to "go out and flourish" as widely as possible. Now why would that be?

[PB86MCSS]

The focus should be on alternative fuels and energy...I love gas guzzling cars as much as anyone and for prices to remain sane, but this country and the world needs to focus on other sources whether it be nuclear, solar, whatever....

Fossil fuels will only last so long period, seems some people are too focused on oil/gas and not towards other sources. JMHO. There will always be new performance cars even if the latest performance wave slows down, if the public demands them, even a smaller segment, no big company will turn their head to selling some vehicles. And the government will only step in the way of a big auto manufacturer so much. $$$ talks.

Besides, no one will take away older muscle/performance/hobby cars that most people in the hobby have. Some people love to try and scare others into thinking the big bad goverment will take them away somehow....ain't gonna happen.

[MurphysLaw88GT]

so you're saying kill the babies or kill the old people?

soylent green...but use old people to make bio-diesel, and some babies for good measure :rolf