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Prince Valiant
12-13-2007, 01:52 PM
from the smokinggun.com:

Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Miguel Tejada, Gary Sheffield, Andy Pettitte, and Paul Lo Duca top the list of baseball stars fingered today as users of performance-enhancing drugs in the bombshell investigative report issued by George Mitchell, who has spent the past 20 months probing the widespread use of steroids and other banned substances in the sport.

Included among the dozens of other current and former ballplayers identified in the Mitchell Report as users of either steroids, human growth hormone, or other banned substances are John Rocker, Lenny Dykstra, Chuck Knoblauch, Eric Gagne, Mo Vaughn, Benito Santiago, Jason Giambi, Matt Williams, Rondell White, and Kevin Brown.

Click here fore a PDF copy of the entire Mitchell Report (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/graphics/pdf/mitchellreport.pdf)

Deprived of a Serpico-like source among the Major League ranks, Mitchell, a former U.S. Senator and federal prosecutor, relied heavily on information provided by a pair of key sources: Kirk Radomski, a former New York Mets clubhouse attendant, and Brian McNamee, who once worked as a New York Yankees strength coach and personal trainer for Clemens and Pettitte.

Additionally, Mitchell's investigators were provided information gathered by federal and state agents who have probed the notorious Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative (BALCO), as well as a nationwide steroid distribution ring that has been probed by the Albany, New York district attorney's office.

The 311-page report, which was released this afternoon minutes before a news conference by Mitchell, is supplemented by 32 pages of exhibits, including canceled checks, Express Mail receipts, and handwritten notes. The document is highly critical of baseball officials--from the commissioner's office down--and players union leaders for doing little to stem the rampant use of performance-enhancing substances during a period in which suspiciously bulked-up sluggers have toppled home run records and aging pitchers have magically regained their youthful form (and fastball speeds).

wikked
12-13-2007, 02:32 PM
LoL no wonder John Rocker was such a time bomb.

I'm not surprised at any of those... they all were decent players, and all of a sudden had insane career years at the plate/mound.

udlose98
12-13-2007, 02:34 PM
Eric Gagne, excellent.

DirtyMax
12-13-2007, 02:53 PM
Eric Gagne, excellent.

Another new Brewer, Guillermo Mota, was named as well.

udlose98
12-13-2007, 02:57 PM
Another new Brewer, Guillermo Mota, was named as well.

ah, didnt even notice that, the other reliever

Nix
12-13-2007, 03:07 PM
Dont worry this is all speculation and no solid proof which means nothing will happne to them and plus there is no test for this shit. I just wonder if Gagne was using that shit when he was so good cause when he went to Boston he didnt do shit. Hmmmmmmmmmm:confused

Karps TA
12-13-2007, 05:09 PM
I think #1 many of these names my reactions are either, Duh or who? I personally think you'd have to be the most naive fool to believe that guys like McGuire and Bonds weren't on some kind of illegal substance.

#2 I think Bud Selig is the one who should be taking the biggest hit for this. He created this mess, he took advantage and encouraged the use, and it happened under his watch. He's the one who the focus should be on.

Prince Valiant
12-13-2007, 05:32 PM
#2 I think Bud Selig is the one who should be taking the biggest hit for this. He created this mess, he took advantage and encouraged the use, and it happened under his watch. He's the one who the focus should be on.
I disagree...the union had for years objected to testing it's players for pretty much anything. I mean it's silly to put this on some old Jewish guy down at the US bank building...I don't deny that there wasn't denial on seligs part...but it was the continuation of denial by all the commish's from the past. Don't think steroid abuse is a recent phenomenon...just look at the book by Canseco...Vincent was still around then even.

The way I see it: NFL/NBA unions tend to get that there is an image that needs protecting and was always willing to take a harderline approach on letting both testing and disciplining of players because the other players *got* that a few bad apples could spoil the bunch.

Baseball union has almost always had the dirty old "UAW/teamsters/longshoresmen/teachers type union" vibe...protect the worst at all cost! Don't give an inch ever! Instead of realizing the damage they did to the rest of the members, the baseball union is out there right now
trying to shift blame off these guys.

Prince Valiant
12-13-2007, 05:35 PM
BTW...here's most the "list":
Here's a list of most of the names Major League Baseball players (AP) - listed in the Mitchell Report.
The following players were connected to steroids, either use or possession, in the report:

Lenny Dykstra

David Segui

Larry Bigbie

Brian Roberts

Jack Cust

Tim Laker

Josias Manzanillo

Todd Hundley

Mark Carreon

Hal Morris

Matt Franco

Rondell White

Andy Pettitte

Roger Clemens

Chuck Knoblauch

Jason Grimsley

Gregg Zaun

David Justice

F.P. Santangelo

Glenallen Hill

Mo Vaughn

Denny Neagle

Ron Villone

Ryan Franklin

Chris Donnels

Todd Williams

Phil Hiatt

Todd Pratt

Kevin Young

Mike Lansing

Cody McKay

Kent Mercker

Adam Piatt

Miguel Tejada

Jason Christiansen

Mike Stanton

Stephen Randolph

Jerry Hairston

Paul Lo Duca

Adam Riggs

Bart Miadich

Fernando Vina

Kevin Brown

Eric Gagne

Mike Bell

Matt Herges

Gary Bennett

Jim Parque

Brendan Donnelly

Chad Allen

Jeff Williams

Exavier "Nook" Logan

Howie Clark

Paxton Crawford

Ken Caminiti

Rafael Palmeiro

Luis Perez

Derrick Turnbow

Ricky Bones

Ricky Stone

The following players were cited under "Alleged Internet Purchases of Performance Enhancing Substances By Players in Major League Baseball."

Rick Ankiel

David Bell

Paul Byrd

Jose Canseco

Jay Gibbons

Troy Glaus

Jason Grimsley

Jose Guillen

Darren Holmes

Gary Matthews Jr.

John Rocker

Scott Schoeneweis

Ismael Valdez

Matt Williams

Steve Woodard

The following players were linked through BALCO:

Benito Santiago

Gary Sheffield

Randy Velarde

Jason Giambi

Jeremy Giambi

Bobby Estalella

Barry Bonds

Marvin Benard

Karps TA
12-13-2007, 05:38 PM
Personally I don't care if they all use the drugs. They are the ones who's lives will be shortened and their quality of life terrible as they get older. It's like every other drug. It's well known that it's not good for you, so it people still want to take it, that's okay with me. Want to take it so you can entertain me by hitting a ball really far. Even better.

Where's Sosa's name? Theres no way in hell anyone can say that guy wasn't on something.

Anakonda69
12-13-2007, 06:00 PM
big deal......most of then we all could have guessed.....it's pro sports welcome to life baseball....lol

Karps TA
12-13-2007, 06:08 PM
I disagree...the union had for years objected to testing it's players for pretty much anything. I mean it's silly to put this on some old Jewish guy down at the US bank building...I don't deny that there wasn't denial on seligs part...but it was the continuation of denial by all the commish's from the past. Don't think steroid abuse is a recent phenomenon...just look at the book by Canseco...Vincent was still around then even.

The way I see it: NFL/NBA unions tend to get that there is an image that needs protecting and was always willing to take a harderline approach on letting both testing and disciplining of players because the other players *got* that a few bad apples could spoil the bunch.

Baseball union has almost always had the dirty old "UAW/teamsters/longshoresmen/teachers type union" vibe...protect the worst at all cost! Don't give an inch ever! Instead of realizing the damage they did to the rest of the members, the baseball union is out there right now
trying to shift blame off these guys.

I worked for Bud, trust me he always knows what's going on. He loved that home run chase between McGuire and Sosa, and knew that it most likely wasn't legit. He profited off it and was happy it was going on to make his sport popular.

I think people tend to think he's just some old guy who doesn't have a clue. Well okay he is when it comes to running a winning baseball team. But he's not an innocent bystander in all of this. Only reason why he's making a big deal about this is because congress forced his hand, just like the union's. If that never happened he would be just as happy to see a bunch of guys hitting 60 hrs a year still happening. As long as the money is coming in that's what ol Uncle Bud cares about.

Prince Valiant
12-13-2007, 06:10 PM
Where's Sosa's name? Theres no way in hell anyone can say that guy wasn't on something.I don't think the reports goal was to ferret all the individuals...it was more to illustrate the depth of the problem in MLB. Everyone knows Sosa should be there...the only reason I like rick rielly is because he pulled out the testing stuff to the guy and said "let's prove your innocent!!!"

Whoah, sammy didn't like that one....

Holeshot
12-13-2007, 06:13 PM
What rally bothers me about this whole thing is all the young kids that look up to not just base ball players but all the sports figures as roll models. Some kids will be really affected in a negative way while other I'm sure could care less. I don't really think role models are healthy these days. It just a set up for major disappointment.

lit666
12-13-2007, 06:18 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Lenny Dykstra is my hero!!!!!!!!

Karps TA
12-13-2007, 06:22 PM
What rally bothers me about this whole thing is all the young kids that look up to not just base ball players but all the sports figures as roll models. Some kids will be really affected in a negative way while other I'm sure could care less. I don't really think role models are healthy these days. It just a set up for major disappointment.

The best role models aren't the ones who never do wrong, or never make mistakes. The best role models are those who learn from their mistakes, admit them and work to make sure others don't make the same ones.

The real role models on this list will be the guys who have the balls to come out and tell the truth and take whatever punishment comes from doing so.

Holeshot
12-13-2007, 06:28 PM
^^^^ I agree 100 %

hrsp
12-13-2007, 07:52 PM
wow...osme big names there

flyin_blue_egg
12-13-2007, 10:39 PM
the thing that i don't get is everybody made a HUGE deal about this report and then it comes out and 80% of the players were nobodies when they played...hell i don't even think 70% of those nobodies even made it to the majors

Yooformula
12-14-2007, 08:10 AM
The best role models aren't the ones who never do wrong, or never make mistakes. The best role models are those who learn from their mistakes, admit them and work to make sure others don't make the same ones.

The real role models on this list will be the guys who have the balls to come out and tell the truth and take whatever punishment comes from doing so.

normally I would agree with you but this younger generation doesnt see it that way. They see an easy way to the top until/if they get caught. If they get caught, oh well they made enough money, onto something else.

Crawlin
12-18-2007, 12:38 PM
My opinion....

Keep it hidden. Keep it from the public. Let these guys do what they want to THEMSELVES since it's their lives....

And let's see some 600ft BOMBS out in centerfield!!!

If today's youth would have been lead to believe that they did all this with hard work and dedication and proper nutrition, and not the steroids, it wouldn't be an issue. They lie to the public all the time anyways, so why not just tack this on to the list :) hahaha

hrsp
12-18-2007, 05:54 PM
some people just get better with age...lol

STANMAN
12-18-2007, 06:13 PM
Who's NOT on the list? Cecil Fielder baby!!!! It's all in the genes for Prince, that's why you won't see him on that list!

hrsp
12-18-2007, 09:31 PM
Who's NOT on the list? Cecil Fielder baby!!!! It's all in the genes for Prince, that's why you won't see him on that list!

he's young..wait til hes 55 and hitting 100 homeruns a year!!!lol

then be suspicious

Karps TA
12-18-2007, 09:42 PM
I'm really wondering what the big deal is with this. Apparently both hitters and pitchers were using the drugs, which makes it a level playing field. I never thought I'd say this but heck take the * off of Bonds HR's. Cause he was hitting roided up pitching.

STANMAN
12-18-2007, 09:43 PM
he's young..wait til hes 55 and hitting 100 homeruns a year!!!lol

then be suspicious

I am a huge Prince fan, have his jersey's, the whole she-bang. Loved watching his old man play to. But if my theory is correct, he will be like his old man, basically eat his way out of baseball long before his career should be over.

STANMAN
12-18-2007, 09:43 PM
I'm really wondering what the big deal is with this. Apparently both hitters and pitchers were using the drugs, which makes it a level playing field. I never thought I'd say this but heck take the * off of Bonds HR's. Cause he was hitting roided up pitching.

Only if every pitcher he faced was on them, because he was on them for every pitcher he faced.

lit666
12-19-2007, 09:38 AM
Only if every pitcher he faced was on them, because he was on them for every pitcher he faced.


:wstupid you got that one right buddy.

VroomPshhTsi
12-23-2007, 09:10 PM
The report just further shows how much of a joke baseball is as a professional sport. If people like David Wells, Barry Bonds, and Matt Stairs can be considered "athletes" then it's not that legit. These people lose their breath after running 90 feet.