Are you aware?

[pickardracing]

That since the onset of the Iraqi conflict in March 03, the combined deaths of Iraqi civilians and American soldiers stemming from the consequences of the conflict, is over 730,000? (694K Iraqi military and civilians, 3600 US soldiers)

Three-quarters of a Million people dead from bombs, disease, collateral damage and other causes. 500 people PER DAY are dying from causes that would otherwise not be present if the US had not invaded Iraq.

Just thought I'd share.

Edit:
http://www.pacifichighlander.postkiwi.com/images/Can-of-worms.jpg

[moels]

Look at the stats from the Vietnam conflict.

[pickardracing]

The Vietnam War cost the United States 58,000 lives and 350,000 casualties. It also resulted in between one and two million Vietnamese deaths.

[Holeshot]

When your in or were in the military like I was I fought for my country no matter who died. Why? Because I love my freedom and what my military brothers and sisters did past present and future to make it that way for all of us. While I may not agree with all the policies in regards to war or occupation in other countries I will defend my country at all cost.

I lost a lot of friends in Africa in the early 80s and I will never forget them or what they did.

[fireguyrick]

Sources for your statistics please (specifically the ones about Iraqi deaths).

Rick

[Berettaspeed]

wow we are doing pretty good. (them vs us ratio)


Its nice that people in our military joined on their own free will. so i don't think anyone has the right to complain about deaths except them. other than that.... there is a war going on. if you're in the area what do you expect to happen?

[pickardracing]

Sources for your statistics please (specifically the ones about Iraqi deaths).

Rick

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/10/AR2006101001442.html

And this was almost a year ago.

[Karps TA]

Hey the important thing is the Iraqi people are really grasping their freedom and making their country a much safer place. I hear it will be the new Las Vegas of the Mideast where everyone will be welcome.

[Holeshot]

All I expect is that our government give our military anything and everything they need to do their job and return home. But there is so much political B.S. its not funny. IMO I think 40% of oil company profits should be funding the effort. But then those greedy bastards would just raise the price of oil and gas any way.

[Reverend Cooper]

When your in or were in the military like I was I fought for my country no matter who died. Why? Because I love my freedom and what my military brothers and sisters did past present and future to make it that way for all of us. While I may not agree with all the policies in regards to war or occupation in other countries I will defend my country at all cost.

I lost a lot of friends in Africa in the early 80s and I will never forget them or what they did.

yes agreed

[subliminal1284]

War is the real enemy.

[Yooformula]

and you somehow think that overall peace can exist wihtout war??? naive if you do.


I dont really care how many of them die in WAR. our casualty rate is very low compared to other wars and occupations. granted a single death is a loss but the lower the better considering people will die.

Where are the stats that show how many people die from sadam's genocide yearly? oh wait, thats right they arent posted anywhere. thanks for sharing but i wont change my position on the war, perhaps with how incosnsistent we are but not with the choice to go in. someone had to pay for 9/11. imo, it was bout time it got dropped on their doorstep this time.

[Cjburn]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/10/AR2006101001442.html

And this was almost a year ago.

You just quoted one of the larger socialist rags in the entire country, to be honest you couldn't have found a more slanted source of information, unless it was coming from Iran. You're going to have to do better than that.

[HITMAN]

Metallica - The black album (Metallica)
Don't Tread On Me


Liberty or death, what we so proudly hail
once you provoke her, rattling of her tail
never begins it, never, but once engaged...
never surrenders, showing the fangs of rage

don't tread on me

so be it
threaten no more
to secure peace is to prepare for war
so be it
settle the score
touch me again for the words that you'll hear evermore...

don't tread on me

love it or live it, she with the deadly bite
quick is the blue tongue, forked as lighting strike
shining with brightness, always on surveillance
the eyes, they never close, emblem of vigilance

don't tread on me

so be it
threaten no more
to secure peace is to prepare for war
so be it
settle the score
touch me again for the words that you'll hear evermore...

don't tread on me

so be it
threaten no more
to secure peace is to prepare for war

liberty or death, what we so proudly hail
once you provoke her, rattling on her tail

so be it
threaten no more
to secure peace is to prepare for war
so be it
settle the score
touch me again for the words that you'll hear evermore...

don't tread on me...

[flyin_blue_egg]

why is it that people always complain about the deaths in Iraq/middle east. Like people have said, the only people that can complain about the deaths or conditions are the people that have been through it. Why can't the people of this great country just get past the B.S. political shit and just do all they can do to support our troops that are dying everyday for our freedom. And i know that if after 9/11 if we didn't start a war you'd have a million people complaining about the fact that we let a bunch of terrorist's kill a bunch of people in our counrty...to tell you the truth i feel that if we hadn't invaded afghanistan (sp) and iraq they would have just brought the war to us, and then you'd really have a lot of deaths to complain about....so just stop fvcking complaining and do something to support them!!!

[pickardracing]

why is it that people always complain about the deaths in Iraq/middle east. Like people have said, the only people that can complain about the deaths or conditions are the people that have been through it. Why can't the people of this great country just get past the B.S. political shit and just do all they can do to support our troops that are dying everyday for our freedom. And i know that if after 9/11 if we didn't start a war you'd have a million people complaining about the fact that we let a bunch of terrorist's kill a bunch of people in our counrty...to tell you the truth i feel that if we hadn't invaded afghanistan (sp) and iraq they would have just brought the war to us, and then you'd really have a lot of deaths to complain about....so just stop fvcking complaining and do something to support them!!!

So according to you, 700,000 human deaths are an acceptable loss?

Nobody is saying anything other than "this is the number".

[Berettaspeed]

So according to you, 700,000 human deaths are an acceptable loss?

Nobody is saying anything other than "this is the number".

i think he is saying....shit happens, its war.

i feel "numbers" like this is for those who try and use that to get people to change their mind. its almost like a trying to make you feel bad or somthing. just like those donate 70 cents a day to this child in india. they have pics of kids with flys on them and its like saying because your not helping this is what these people have to go through. so im my eyes (and plz tell me im wrong) if your not against the war then you as someone not against the war is okay with this many people dying.the th ing is you have to fight fire with fire. but with all the political B.S you cant fight that way. so you know what because of babies more people will die. so i turn it back on those against the war that is causing it to last this long. History is written by the conquerors. way back when you just destroed everyone. it was easier and you didn't have to worry about them any more. you have your own mouths to feed. keeping people alive would just make you weaker and use up your supplies. yeah it sounds messed up, but thats the way it is. but its changing today, making everything hard by trying to stroke everyone.

ill have to say, they are acceptable losses. and it takes a strong person to deal with this. you must keep on what you started. otherwise it would be for nothing. if you back out and never completing what you intended, you wasted all those peoples lifes for nothing.

[Cjburn]

Nobody is saying anything other than "this is the number".

Who are saying this, I've heard quotes of more, I have heard guesses of less. You've got to understand that every source, and I do mean every source, has a bias and an agenda in the media today. Do you subtract out the number of people that Saddam himself would've slaughtered? Do you try to estimate the larger loss of life which could've happened if a military dictator would've inflicted upon civilians had he been left in power? NO, people like you try to some how moralize a supposed injustice, trying to somehow pin moral wrong upon our leadership and military. Yet, the same ******* hippies have no idea, or take no consideration on how these people act, or how they would act if the roles were reversed, or if the threat would've been allowed to fester. Do you support appeasement? Do you believe if we give enough to the enemy they'll be satisfied and just stop? The bullshitting left in this country would have you believe that they would not have taken the path that the centrists in charge of this country took. When, in fact, history has shown our political left to be the warring party.
"That all it takes for evil to triumph is good men to do nothing."

[Holeshot]

Well let me put it like this. How many on this board has killed another human being? Until you have been there done that, numbers don't mean shit. I have been there and I was scared. To see bodies blown to shit and have your buddy die at your side is a lot different then most of you think. I don't care how tough or bad you are or think you are. When your fighting for your life you do what you have to.

[GTSLOW]

Where are the stats that show how many people die from sadam's genocide yearly? oh wait, thats right they arent posted anywhere.

:thumbsup


500 people PER DAY are dying from causes that would otherwise not be present if the US had not invaded Iraq.


You really got your facts straight don't ya. :loser

[pOrk]

You guys really think this war is on 'terror' and NOTHING else? This is a war on oil, and I don't see it ending anytime soon.

[fireguyrick]

Holeshot, could you do me a favor? PM me with what branch of the service you were in, what you did, and what combat operation(s) you are refering to in Africa during the 80's. Just curious is all.

Your question about how many people have killed another person. Frankly, I would sincerely doubt ANYONE on this board that claimed to kill another person (via online post). That is just something that were a person to go through, 99% of the time they will rarely, if ever, speak of it again.

For me, while I served with the Marine Corps in various locations (including several areas of Africa, hence my question for you) I have fired my weapon and I have been fired at. A person can take that to mean anything they want, and that is there choice. I live with any and all choices I have had to make in my time in the Corps. Truthfully, many of my choices haunt me to this day and will till the day I die. They were MY CHOICES though, and I blame no one but myself for my actions. Were I to have been killed in a combat zone I would not want anyone using me as an antiwar statistic.

Anyways, yes it is sad that so many civilians have died. Still, look at WWII and the mass carpet bombing of German cities. What about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Were those civilian deaths ok? Most people seem to think that it was a means to an end of the war.

What I find interesting is that 50% or so of these deaths were via gunshots, 30 some % were from airstrikes, and the rest were from car bombs (did not know that US Military was using explding Yugo's). You can find the EXACT numbers in the link posted, so I may be off to some extent in the numbers. Either way it certainly seems that the increase in deaths are not really coming from the US Military, but rather from there own people and the insurgents.

Rick

[pOrk]

What I find interesting is that 50% or so of these deaths were via gunshots, 30 some % were from airstrikes, and the rest were from car bombs (did not know that US Military was using explding Yugo's). You can find the EXACT numbers in the link posted, so I may be off to some extent in the numbers. Either way it certainly seems that the increase in deaths are not really coming from the US Military, but rather from there own people and the insurgents.

Rick

I don't mean to point this out, but I was going to comment on it earlier. The country is at war with its own people, and we are there 'helping.'

Since all I know is what the media tells me, I know nothing. And no one else here on the forum or in the states that HASN'T been there know a damn thing. Media tells a story how they want YOU to hear it. It may not be a lie, but it def. isn't the complete truth. Lots of lives are being lost, and for what?

Nothing is worth it, its too bad pther people don't see it that way.

[Windsors 03 Cobra]

All i hear in the media is "losing losing losing the war in iraq" according to these numbers are troops are kicking some iraq arse.
I wish the media would report these numbers a little more all they ever report is when americans are killed.

I'm aware now and thanks for that. And oh yes the oil companies should fund the war and maybe Toyota "profits are our middle name" too!!!!!!

[Holeshot]

Holeshot, could you do me a favor? PM me with what branch of the service you were in, what you did, and what combat operation(s) you are refering to in Africa during the 80's. Just curious is all.

Your question about how many people have killed another person. Frankly, I would sincerely doubt ANYONE on this board that claimed to kill another person (via online post). That is just something that were a person to go through, 99% of the time they will rarely, if ever, speak of it again.

For me, while I served with the Marine Corps in various locations (including several areas of Africa, hence my question for you) I have fired my weapon and I have been fired at. A person can take that to mean anything they want, and that is there choice. I live with any and all choices I have had to make in my time in the Corps. Truthfully, many of my choices haunt me to this day and will till the day I die. They were MY CHOICES though, and I blame no one but myself for my actions. Were I to have been killed in a combat zone I would not want anyone using me as an antiwar statistic.

Anyways, yes it is sad that so many civilians have died. Still, look at WWII and the mass carpet bombing of German cities. What about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Were those civilian deaths ok? Most people seem to think that it was a means to an end of the war.

What I find interesting is that 50% or so of these deaths were via gunshots, 30 some % were from airstrikes, and the rest were from car bombs (did not know that US Military was using explding Yugo's). You can find the EXACT numbers in the link posted, so I may be off to some extent in the numbers. Either way it certainly seems that the increase in deaths are not really coming from the US Military, but rather from there own people and the insurgents.

Rick

2nd Armored Ft Hood Tx (1980 1987) Which it now 6th Armored. We did NATO/ Recon with Germany in east Africa which at the time was the early stages and planning of Somalian conflict. I don't care to elaborate on it :shades