Fact, not fiction about domestic

[GRM-REPR]

cars. In the Milwaukee Journal today, this article was printed from the Associated Press. Sadly the Journal sucks, so I had to do a search on the author and found it, pretty much the same.

Anyways, there always seems to be "opinions" flying around as to how bad American cars are. Well, here is your proof that "like I said", American Autos have risen out of the swamp, slowly and surely.

If "you" are going to not read the article, please don't even bother posting on here because you cannot fight fact with fiction.

Ford is a superior product, and shame on the bigger media segments for not acknowledging this more closely.

People who own newer Mustangs should be proud to be driving around one of the best manufactured vehicles ever available....A Mustang...that is priceless, a performance vehicle that out performs solid family sedans.
Enjoy.

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/24-06062007-1358647.html

[Flight_740]

I think J.D. Power and Associates has their hand in Lincolns pocket.

:rolf:rolf:rolf:goof


Thats great. I'm more curious in a 5 year time period to see how they really hold up. This is only on 07 models correct?

[GRM-REPR]

I think J.D. Power and Associates has their hand in Lincolns pocket.

:rolf:rolf:rolf:goof


Thats great. I'm more curious in a 5 year time period to see how they really hold up. This is only on 07 models correct?

LOL, like they did with Toyota?:goof:wooo

[GRM-REPR]

I think J.D. Power and Associates has their hand in Lincolns pocket.

:rolf:rolf:rolf:goof


Thats great. I'm more curious in a 5 year time period to see how they really hold up. This is only on 07 models correct?

Overall quality, and problems per vehicle, article doesn't mention which years, but I'm assuming 06'-07'?

[07ROUSHSTG3]

it is great news not just for Ford but for all the domestics. the domestics put out some really great product that is much better than some of the things the imports put out. problem is that the media being run by liberals convince people that this can't be. a vast majority of people depend solely on the news and other media to make all their decisions in life. this will definetly help but major news organizations are already claiming that either toyota and honda got worse and that the domestics did not make the leaps that it appears... or the other excuse that you will hear is that they used a mazda vehicle in the figuring for FORD. either way the media will do whatever it takes to turn this into the imports dropping the ball, not that the domestics are getting better.

i thought it was funny that the ford wixom plant recieved the platinum plant quality award, funny because the last vehicle rolled off the lines this week. i beleive that it is the first time that an american plant has ever won that award. the turnaround is happening, wether you choose to believe it or not is up to you!

[GRM-REPR]

it is great news not just for Ford but for all the domestics. the domestics put out some really great product that is much better than some of the things the imports put out. problem is that the media being run by liberals convince people that this can't be. a vast majority of people depend solely on the news and other media to make all their decisions in life. this will definetly help but major news organizations are already claiming that either toyota and honda got worse and that the domestics did not make the leaps that it appears... or the other excuse that you will hear is that they used a mazda vehicle in the figuring for FORD. either way the media will do whatever it takes to turn this into the imports dropping the ball, not that the domestics are getting better.

i thought it was funny that the ford wixom plant recieved the platinum plant quality award, funny because the last vehicle rolled off the lines this week. i beleive that it is the first time that an american plant has ever won that award. the turnaround is happening, wether you choose to believe it or not is up to you!

Testify my brother....testify....!

[Nix]

it is great news not just for Ford but for all the domestics. the domestics put out some really great product that is much better than some of the things the imports put out. problem is that the media being run by liberals convince people that this can't be. a vast majority of people depend solely on the news and other media to make all their decisions in life. this will definetly help but major news organizations are already claiming that either toyota and honda got worse and that the domestics did not make the leaps that it appears... or the other excuse that you will hear is that they used a mazda vehicle in the figuring for FORD. either way the media will do whatever it takes to turn this into the imports dropping the ball, not that the domestics are getting better.

i thought it was funny that the ford wixom plant recieved the platinum plant quality award, funny because the last vehicle rolled off the lines this week. i beleive that it is the first time that an american plant has ever won that award. the turnaround is happening, wether you choose to believe it or not is up to you!

True true true!!!

I've been saying it for sometime now that the Domestic market is rising and the Import market is slowly sinking into the swamps where the Domestic market use to be. Proof is in the pudding my fellow car enthusists...:thumbsup

Good find Jon:headbang

[xxsn0blindxx]

It's an award for best initial quality, so it would be new vehicles, either 06 or 07. This is definitely a step in the right direction. What will be more important is how they hold in the next 5 and 10 years. I think a vehicle's long-term quality is much more important, especially for a manufacturer's image. Hopefully this is the beginning of a big turn-around for Ford. Click Here (http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pdf/2007088.pdf) for official J.D. Power press release.

[07ROUSHSTG3]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070607/AUTO01/706070417/1148


http://www.autoblog.com/2007/06/06/ford-dominates-j-d-power-and-associates-2007-initial-quality-st/

[xxsn0blindxx]

Interesting to see that Hyundai and Kia are just above the industry average mark, beating every GM and Chrysler brand.

[GRM-REPR]

For years the 99-04' Mustang GT's have been one of the highest quality manufactured vehicles on Earth. I find that very interesting. Also, has had very few recalls. Why can't Ford and G.M have figured out these things a while earlier?

[Flight_740]

For years the 99-04' Mustang GT's have been one of the highest quality manufactured vehicles on Earth. I find that very interesting. Also, has had very few recalls. Why can't Ford and G.M have figured out these things a while earlier?



I'll agree there for one reason. Maybe it's just me:confused But people pond the hell out of mustangs, any year and they just seem to take it.

[johnny--2k]

People who own newer Mustangs should be proud to be driving around one of the best manufactured vehicles ever available....A Mustang...that is priceless, a performance vehicle that out performs solid family sedans.
Enjoy.

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/24-06062007-1358647.html


2 problems I see with this:

1) How are you comparing a MUSTANG to a FAMILY SEDAN? That makes no sense whatsoever.

2) Last time I was working on an 07 GT, the A-pillar had a piece of cardboard glued to it to help it keep it's form and distance from the actual sheet metal.

Real quality there! :durr

Not that I think they are bad cars, but they do skimp in a lot of places. I worked at a Lincoln/Merc dealership for quite a while, and the number of cars I saw come in with major problems was quite surprising. No doubt the quality has gone up, but still sub-par IMHO for the price you pay.

Just my 2 cents, but whatever. I love the new mustangs, fast, great looking, and very mod-friendly, but the Domestics still have crap for resale value and that is a fact that is undeniable with good reasoning behind it. Also worth mentioning is the fact that 2 of Fords child companies took the last two spots in the list of problems per 100 vehicles, mazda and land rover.


Quoted from the article....


"The (Initial Quality Survey) is not the whole picture when it comes to customers' perceptions and the information they have on quality. We think that long-term quality and durability are what people base their buying decisions on."

Again, not trying to rain on anyones parade, just how I see it. Honestly, I think all the manufacturers need a lot of help in the quality department but we all know that will never happen on a large scale. Some manufacturers are just too cheap to pay for high quality. Shit, even Acura cheaped out and a lot of the TL's have rattles galore (not mine thankfully) and it's because acura switched vendors for all their plastic components. After realizing that they screwed themselves, they switched back to their previous supplier. My 03TL was definitely better built in terms of quality than my 05TL, but hey, shit happens i guess. I got lucky with mine and no major problems at all. Nothing's perfect afterall right?:)

[GRM-REPR]

2 problems I see with this:

1) How are you comparing a MUSTANG to a FAMILY SEDAN? That makes no sense whatsoever.

2) Last time I was working on an 07 GT, the A-pillar had a piece of cardboard glued to it to help it keep it's form and distance from the actual sheet metal.

Real quality there! :durr

Not that I think they are bad cars, but they do skimp in a lot of places. I worked at a Lincoln/Merc dealership for quite a while, and the number of cars I saw come in with major problems was quite surprising. No doubt the quality has gone up, but still sub-par IMHO for the price you pay.

Just my 2 cents, but whatever. I love the new mustangs, fast, great looking, and very mod-friendly, but the Domestics still have crap for resale value and that is a fact that is undeniable with good reasoning behind it. Also worth mentioning is the fact that 2 of Fords child companies took the last two spots in the list of problems per 100 vehicles, mazda and land rover.


Quoted from the article....



Again, not trying to rain on anyones parade, just how I see it. Honestly, I think all the manufacturers need a lot of help in the quality department but we all know that will never happen on a large scale. Some manufacturers are just too cheap to pay for high quality. Shit, even Acura cheaped out and a lot of the TL's have rattles galore (not mine thankfully) and it's because acura switched vendors for all their plastic components. After realizing that they screwed themselves, they switched back to their previous supplier. My 03TL was definitely better built in terms of quality than my 05TL, but hey, shit happens i guess. I got lucky with mine and no major problems at all. Nothing's perfect afterall right?:)

Huhhhh.....

Look, this article isn't a ***** fest, it is an article I posted for all the nay-sayers here that believe domestic is crap. How am I comparing a Mustang to a family sedan? It's easy, it beat most of them out because of initial quality as remarked in the article, that is why. Wow, you saw a piece of cardboard inbetween a pillar?! Geez, no other company has pulled shit like that (by the way, I worked at Ford over 7 years and saw my fair share of odds and ends). Go read the thread about Toyota quality concerns and read my posts. Please don't talk up Acura, they are not special, I also worked there so I don't want to hear it.

I posted this article because some people can't figure out why everyone rips domestic autos. They make pretty good vehicles. Toyota and Honda didn't build their reps in a few years, it took decades. So on the flip side, it has been taking domestic manufacturers decades to build their reps back up, and it will take some time.

So you have an Acura with no major problems yet? To be honest, I'd much rather have a Ford Taurus with a standard 3L in the long run, than that money pit you own right now. Leave your credit card at AOB and they will take great care of your wallet, I mean car for you. Problem is, Ford and G.M are trying to re-establsh their offerings to brainwashed Americans. My father has almost 90K on his Explorer with nothing wrong but the usual wear and tear. If most people knew that you do the scheduled maint, the vehicle will last for a very long time. But I'm assuming you know that tho?

What cars are being skimped on, and what is being skimped? Are you one of those people that complain when you have a rattle? Shit, come on man, maybe one Acura owner pissed and moaned about a rattle, and it turned out to be a TSB......one of many......

I believe you missed the point of the article. It is showing how many leaps Ford has made with their products. If you want to start a grass roots campain to find every little flaw in a domestic vehicle, you should've started decades ago....

So get over it.

[johnny--2k]

Huhhhh.....

Look, this article isn't a ***** fest, it is an article I posted for all the nay-sayers here that believe domestic is crap. How am I comparing a Mustang to a family sedan? It's easy, it beat most of them out because of initial quality as remarked in the article, that is why. Wow, you saw a piece of cardboard inbetween a pillar?! Geez, no other company has pulled shit like that (by the way, I worked at Ford over 7 years and saw my fair share of odds and ends). Go read the thread about Toyota quality concerns and read my posts. Please don't talk up Acura, they are not special, I also worked there so I don't want to hear it.

I posted this article because some people can't figure out why everyone rips domestic autos. They make pretty good vehicles. Toyota and Honda didn't build their reps in a few years, it took decades. So on the flip side, it has been taking domestic manufacturers decades to build their reps back up, and it will take some time.

So you have an Acura with no major problems yet? To be honest, I'd much rather have a Ford Taurus with a standard 3L in the long run, than that money pit you own right now. Leave your credit card at AOB and they will take great care of your wallet, I mean car for you. Problem is, Ford and G.M are trying to re-establsh their offerings to brainwashed Americans. My father has almost 90K on his Explorer with nothing wrong but the usual wear and tear. If most people knew that you do the scheduled maint, the vehicle will last for a very long time. But I'm assuming you know that tho?

What cars are being skimped on, and what is being skimped? Are you one of those people that complain when you have a rattle? Shit, come on man, maybe one Acura owner pissed and moaned about a rattle, and it turned out to be a TSB......one of many......

I believe you missed the point of the article. It is showing how many leaps Ford has made with their products. If you want to start a grass roots campain to find every little flaw in a domestic vehicle, you should've started decades ago....

So get over it.

OK. A bit over-reacting are we?

1) I never said they were crap. I even said there is no doubt that their quality has gone up.

2) Never talked up acura at all. I even said they have had their fair share of problems as well.

As for me, I have had 2 Acuras, and no major money spent on either of them.

3) Money pit? It is definitely not that. In comparison with every other car in it's class, it's actually the best priced. Find me another new car with all the options that can compare in size, performance, equipment, and everything else in that price range and I'll shut up.

I am in no means talking up acura, but when I bought the car, it was what I wanted and in the price range I wanted to spend. No Domestic or Import could touch it in terms of value for a new vehicle.

4) I have never ripped on domestics. I've owned my share of them as well, and never had any major problems with those either.

My main point was the fact that even though they are making improvements, and that's definitely a good thing for both the manufacturers and the consumers, they still have a long way to go to, as you put it, "re-establish their offerings to brainwashed Americans"

As for the cardboard thing, it was just one example. Chill out buddy. Don't get your panties in a bundle OK.

Again all I am saying is this:

Good, they are improving their quality. Thats great, but they still have quite a ways to go especially to get through to the "brainwashed americans" before they will have really made an impact.

Initial quality is not a true test of time though. Let's see how these cars are doing in 5 years in terms of reliability, resale, and all the other factors that go into these surveys. If their scores improve compared to current, great! That would be an awesome thing to happen for them and for the auto industry in terms of jobs etc here in the states.

Didn't mean to $hit on your thread (as you think I did) just expressing how I see the whole situation. I don't really think that initial quality is test that anyone should base their purchases on. 99% of cars are great in the first 90 days, it's the money that will be spent on them after 3 or 4 or 5 years that makes the impact. However, initial quality improvements are a good sign that overall quality will go up as well, so thats always good.

Only time will tell.

That's all. Didn't mean to get anyone upset or $hit on your thread, it's just my take on the whole situation.

The article is good, no doubt, but it's only one slice of the pie.

[GRM-REPR]

OK. A bit over-reacting are we?

1) I never said they were crap. I even said there is no doubt that their quality has gone up.

2) Never talked up acura at all. I even said they have had their fair share of problems as well.

As for me, I have had 2 Acuras, and no major money spent on either of them.

3) Money pit? It is definitely not that. In comparison with every other car in it's class, it's actually the best priced. Find me another new car with all the options that can compare in size, performance, equipment, and everything else in that price range and I'll shut up.

I am in no means talking up acura, but when I bought the car, it was what I wanted and in the price range I wanted to spend. No Domestic or Import could touch it in terms of value for a new vehicle.

4) I have never ripped on domestics. I've owned my share of them as well, and never had any major problems with those either.

My main point was the fact that even though they are making improvements, and that's definitely a good thing for both the manufacturers and the consumers, they still have a long way to go to, as you put it, "re-establish their offerings to brainwashed Americans"

As for the cardboard thing, it was just one example. Chill out buddy. Don't get your panties in a bundle OK.

Again all I am saying is this:

Good, they are improving their quality. Thats great, but they still have quite a ways to go especially to get through to the "brainwashed americans" before they will have really made an impact.

Initial quality is not a true test of time though. Let's see how these cars are doing in 5 years in terms of reliability, resale, and all the other factors that go into these surveys. If their scores improve compared to current, great! That would be an awesome thing to happen for them and for the auto industry in terms of jobs etc here in the states.

Didn't mean to $hit on your thread (as you think I did) just expressing how I see the whole situation. I don't really think that initial quality is test that anyone should base their purchases on. 99% of cars are great in the first 90 days, it's the money that will be spent on them after 3 or 4 or 5 years that makes the impact. However, initial quality improvements are a good sign that overall quality will go up as well, so thats always good.

Only time will tell.

That's all. Didn't mean to get anyone upset or $hit on your thread, it's just my take on the whole situation.

The article is good, no doubt, but it's only one slice of the pie.

First off, this is constructive criticism, not overreacting.

I use the term brainwashed Americans because it seems to be one of the most popular terms, and it is true. The media spins the pot differently than the manufacurer would like to have them. I don't like Consumer Reports biased views, but even they stir the import/domestic pot. I wouldn't mind an Acura CLS, in fact, I REALLY wouldn't mind having one, I enjoyed driving them. However, as we both seem to agree, no, one company makes a flawless vehicle, and sadly when the CL's break down out of warranty, I was turned off by the amount of money it takes to repair them, that is MY opinion and it's arguable by anyone.

You didn't shit on the thread, and didn't get my jock in a bunch. I'm an adult and I can take others criticizm, (would I be accurate in assuming you're doing the same)?

If initial quality means nothing, why do companies push the ads so much on t.v when the results come out? Why do the media outlets make such news on it? The auto segment in America is gigantic, and it sells, that is why.

I posted this article in hopes of bringing good news to some BCM'ers. Besides, you wont see this on the news, radio, or Consumer Reports. It is good advertisement for Ford. I also wonder about the long term. How come no one talks about Ford Escape Hybrid, and how they all have been working flawlessly in N.Y and California as taxi's with well over 100k on them? I have no answer, it was an article I read last year in the back of the business section.

Did you read the article a couple of days ago in business (Journal/Sentinel) about the Honda Accord Hybrid? They are discontinuing it because of poor sales and mpg for the price.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that the American public should be made more aware of the good things our domestic companies are doing.

My 2cents....

[07ROUSHSTG3]

and the awards just keep coming!
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/06/07/whaa-big-3-wins-big-in-wards-interior-of-the-year-awards/

[GRM-REPR]

Interesting.

Is this a joke?

Best Cup Holder: Chrysler Sebring

[johnny--2k]

First off, this is constructive criticism, not overreacting.

I use the term brainwashed Americans because it seems to be one of the most popular terms, and it is true. The media spins the pot differently than the manufacurer would like to have them. I don't like Consumer Reports biased views, but even they stir the import/domestic pot. I wouldn't mind an Acura CLS, in fact, I REALLY wouldn't mind having one, I enjoyed driving them. However, as we both seem to agree, no, one company makes a flawless vehicle, and sadly when the CL's break down out of warranty, I was turned off by the amount of money it takes to repair them, that is MY opinion and it's arguable by anyone.

You didn't shit on the thread, and didn't get my jock in a bunch. I'm an adult and I can take others criticizm, (would I be accurate in assuming you're doing the same)?

If initial quality means nothing, why do companies push the ads so much on t.v when the results come out? Why do the media outlets make such news on it? The auto segment in America is gigantic, and it sells, that is why.

I posted this article in hopes of bringing good news to some BCM'ers. Besides, you wont see this on the news, radio, or Consumer Reports. It is good advertisement for Ford. I also wonder about the long term. How come no one talks about Ford Escape Hybrid, and how they all have been working flawlessly in N.Y and California as taxi's with well over 100k on them? I have no answer, it was an article I read last year in the back of the business section.

Did you read the article a couple of days ago in business (Journal/Sentinel) about the Honda Accord Hybrid? They are discontinuing it because of poor sales and mpg for the price.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that the American public should be made more aware of the good things our domestic companies are doing.

My 2cents....


I agree with you on the after warranty stuff, but any car, in reality, gets expensive to maintain after warranty if something breaks. Where is the majority of the cost, labor......

The reason for pushing the ads is exactly as you said, the brainwashed americans. They dont know the difference between their ass and a hole in the ground when it comes to stuff like that. In marketing/advertising it's called selective hearing. They hear best and quality, but not necessarily initial or any of the other important information that could sway their decision one way or another.

Overall, I agree, and like you said, it's all about opinion. I think it's a great article, but as with anything else, there is always two sides to the story.

[70challenger452]

I doubt this will have any impact on the market, all the consumer reports and such are still going to be bias, I just read this article on a different forum, and like I said there I guess it is true what some are saying about toyota's overall quality going down as the company grows. For me like the rest of the world, i don't care, really don't, it's not going to change my decision on buying a vehicle, but it's nice to see the cold hard facts not just opinions

[281Cubes]

It's nice to see the domestics coming around, be it GM, Chrysler, or in this case, Ford. However, initial quality doesn't mean a whole lot, as was mentioned previously. So it's nice when it's new...Great. Most cars are. :shades Although maybe I shouldn't talk as my little '96 GT is about to turn 94k with only normal maintenance done. I'm not always nice to her either. :D

[fireguyrick]

There is one thing that always bothers me about these cutomer surveys and so forth. It never really goes into detail about what the actual complaints are/were.

I mean really let's think about it.

There are plenty of people that will except poor fit and finish, rattles, etc... on cheaper cars such as Kia's and Hyundai's, because they realize that it is a CHEAP car in the end. Conversely, I would not be happy if I had some crappy fit and finish items on my near $50K Lexus that I am EXPECTING to have outstanding quality (as that is what they hype).

Hell, just expectations for getting normal service are completely different for me with the Lexus and the Trailblazer. I expect decent service at both places, but when they do not have my choclate chip cookies and cappuccino at the Lexus dealership while I am there for my oil change I am pissed (not really...but).

Hell, I just had my first oil change done on the Lexus on Monday while it was raining. They came back to tell me that the car was done, but they needed to wash it first. I was like WTF it is raining, but they insisted on cleaning the car for me inside and out. Furthermore, the service manager stopped me and said that he noticed a few scratches on the paint. He said when I come in for my 15K mile service to remind them to touch up any scratches I had, FREE of charge. I have my doubts that I could expect or even request that from many of the domestic dealerships.

Rick