Bowflex..................

[awsomeears]

Thinking about getting one, any users here ?

I would like to tone my body up, and try to gain some mass

I'm not the type to go to the gym and work out, id rather have winamp playing in my house and fridge near by :thumbsup

Ohh yea when I did go to the gym ( 2 weeks total ) I felt out of place:rolf witch is odd because nothing bothers me but ohh well ..............

So who has used this machine and how do you like it.

I know of two people that use it and love it :thumbsup just looking for more feedback because these units can be found from $300 to $500.

I'm focusing on legs/backs/arms so yea total body :banana1:

- Brad -

[nismodave]

U trying to lose weight? Tone? Build Mass?

[awsomeears]

U trying to lose weight? Tone? Build Mass?

Tone and TRY to buld some mass. I think tone would be better suited for me.

I'm 5' 10"" 140lbs. so I have the slender weight advantage sort of , but then again if I had a bit more weight it would benifit me to turn that into muscle.

My metabolism is super fast so my 140 weight has stuck with me since I was 16 ( 23 now )

[Korndogg]

im kinda in the same boat. Im 6'-6'1" and I weigh 150

[Car Guy]

What's wrong with me...??? I'm 6' and 210.....:wooo



Here's Brad in two years.....

http://homepages.wmich.edu/~l5bucknell/super_muscle_man.jpg






:3gears::3gears::3gears:

[Breecher_7]

5'8" 230lbs, BEAST!!!!

Nah, i need to knock down about 30lbs to be back where I like to be

How the HELL can you be 6' and 150lbs? TWIG!!!! I felt small at 190lbs a few years back...

If you want to build up mass, let me know......

[awsomeears]

im kinda in the same boat. Im 6'-6'1" and I weigh 150

Yea same boat id say, for me its hard to gain any weight or mass !!!!!!!!!

you ?

I'm skinny but not weak, I can lift my fair share of shit ( furnaces and a/c ) by myslef. Not the smartest thing to do but :banana1:

[Car Guy]

5'8" 230lbs, BEAST!!!!

Nah, i need to knock down about 30lbs to be back where I like to be

How the HELL can you be 6' and 150lbs? TWIG!!!! I felt small at 190lbs a few years back...

If you want to build up mass, let me know......


I makes me wonder how much weight (other than muscle) I could really loose....:wow






:3gears::3gears::3gears:

[Breecher_7]

Yea same boat id say, for me its hard to gain any weight or mass !!!!!!!!!

you ?

I'm skinny but not weak, I can lift my fair share of shit ( furnaces and a/c ) by myslef. Not the smartest thing to do but :banana1:

You can build it up....Its not hard, just costs money!!!!

[awsomeears]

You can build it up....Its not hard, just costs money!!!!

That really isnt a problem, $ for your health shouldnt be a issue for anyone.

I dont eat bad and I dont eat great. Im not picky with food either :thumbsup

I think myself and pretty much everyone that wants to get into shape is scared to even begin. Mainly for the fact that there is 1,000,000 ways to do it and countless books out there. Witch ones to read, witch ones to stay clear of, wrong info ect. ect.

As long as I can get good info and the basics down to start ill do fine, like I said im not much of going to the GYM because thats not me.

Ive been searching reviews online about bowfelx and most are positive, lot of replys are talking about how bowflex is just like using free weights and such..............

Then again who knows so thats why I posted this thread to get real feeback :-)

[Breecher_7]

Start eating alot of small meals all day long. Stop worrying about what your eating, calories and garbage will help you build mass. You will be working out anyways. Lifting alone will get you nowhere, got to do atleast 40 mins of cardio for a good workout. I usually will run for 20 mins, lift, then bike or swim for 20 mins when im done. Get on some supplements, mainly proteins. Prepare to have some serious swamp ass!!!

[Breecher_7]

THEN... There is alway steroids!!! The easy way!!

[Korndogg]

yeah i cant really gain any weight. But im not weak by any means just because I'm skinny doesn't mean anything. I lift pipe all day and its not the lightest shit lol.

[awsomeears]

got to do atleast 40 mins of cardio for a good workout. !!!

Cardio and me never met :rolf

This is probably the down side of my body, running and such im a puss at.

When I was a little shit just like everyone else we Biked everywhere, hell I probably biked a few miles a day. Now were all grown up and drive :rolf

Would you say biking and running are totally different ?

I would much rather bike in a high gear ( peddlin fast ) around then run.

Whats your take ?

[Korndogg]

yeah I hate running because I have a bad knee. (flipped my dirtbike when i was 12 and saw my knecap, it was great). But I love biking. Except I have noone to go with and it gets boring going alone all the time so I haven't been going.

[SlowStee]

How the HELL can you be 6' and 150lbs? TWIG!!!! I felt small at 190lbs a few years back...



have you seen the dude in Ultimate Fighter?? 6'4, 155lbs...INSANE

[Breecher_7]

Running is totally different then biking.... RUnning works almost every muscle in your body. If you dont want to run, i would recommend swimming.

[awsomeears]

Running is totally different then biking.... RUnning works almost every muscle in your body. If you dont want to run, i would recommend swimming.

ic

well then I may just have to run a bit, and bike to work. Infact that is a great idea. Bike to ******* work witch is 3 miles away or maybe more

[Breecher_7]

3 miles on a bike will not take 20mins..... I can STILL run 3 miles in 22 mins and im out of shape like all hell right now

[hrsp]

have you seen the dude in Ultimate Fighter?? 6'4, 155lbs...INSANE

yeah must hace "thin" bones???

[flyin_blue_egg]

im kinda in the same boat. Im 6'-6'1" and I weigh 150

you sound just like me

[70challenger452]

Man I feel like the beef here, I'm 6'0 250

and that whole bowflex thing is a joke, don't waste your time and money, get some dumbells, a bar and some free weights

[Breecher_7]

Man I feel like the beef here, I'm 6'0 250

and that whole bowflex thing is a joke, don't waste your time and money, get some dumbells, a bar and some free weights



Agreed!!!!

[PureSound15]

I'm a fan of free weights and a few of the machines at my gym. It's amazing what the right combo of supplements can do for a skinnier guy, especially the right kind of protein. When picking out what you take, don't get sold on the marketing, look at whats in it compared to others.

I tried the bowflex a couple times and din't like it, it seemed as though it was harder on my joints, but that may have all been in my head.

[Reverend Cooper]

^ agreed, its a good machine,but i think free weights are more effective in the long run,they work the muscle your training as well as your stabilizer muscles, and yes to the supplements,creatine,protein,glutamine,taurine, like ryan said read whats in it not just the name on it

[fireguyrick]

NO to creatine. That stuff WILL seriously cause you issues in the long run. I could go into this large diatribe about what it does physiologically to you, but let me put it this way. Let me start by explaining insulin to you. Your body naturally makes insulin. However, some diabetics have insulin issues, so they take insulin injections. Over a period of time your body will STOP making insulin on it's own. Therefore, once a diabetic starts on insulin injections they will be on them for the rest of their life. The interaction with your body and creatine supplements is very similiar to this. Your body will stop or significantly reduce it's own production of creatine, requiring you to take more in a supplemental form. Now, the most recent studies have shown that creatine production in the body can return to normal after you stop taking supplements, but it takes a period of time (not days, we are talking weeks to months) for this to happen. There also have been no long term studies to determine the long term interactions with creatine.

Understand this, if something is labeled and sold as a supplement it does NOT need to get FDA approval.

But this is all just my professional medical opinion, so you can take it or leave it your choice.

Rick

[70challenger452]

Theres no problem with creatin if you use it right. 12 weeks on, 4 weeks off, I went through a jug of it and gained a solid 25 pounds in 2 months lifting 5 times a week, I haven't gone back on it yet though becasue of rugby and other stuff. If you use it right you have nothing to worry about but if you just keep taking it then thats where you start having problems. I know lots of guys that took creatin many years back and there are no long term affects

[Karps TA]

That reminds me of all the hoopla over ephedrine. People just refuse to listen to their bodies. The old original formula of Hydroxycut was a huge help to me in starting to lose wieght like 4 years ago. It showed me some real good results fairly quickly which encouraged me to work out more and lose weight. I lost around 60lbs over a year. Went from around 320lbs to around 260lbs, while upping my strength and muscle mass. The directions on the bottle were kinda crazy, and it didn't take me long to figure out what my body tolerated.

Unfortunately, I quit working out, and eating well a couple years ago and my body went back to hell. lol But none of the supplements I've found have done anything to help give me that starting boost, like the old Hydroxycut did. And if I don't see measureable results fairly quickly, I get discouraged and go back to Ding dongs.

[Reverend Cooper]

creatine is found in red meats, not just supplements, its just like any supplement too much is not better. its just like vitamins if you take to many they will harm you. your point is valid. but if you look it up there are thousands of other people doctors included that will argue it. i dont claim to know more than the next person but if you body produces x aount naturally and your not eating enough of the right foods to produce this,it can be supplemented. its neither here nor there. truth be told the only way you are really gonna get alot of mass is to eat big and work out.

[Car Guy]

I get discouraged and go back to Ding dongs.


Nooooooooooooooooo, not DING DONGS...!!! :wooo




Well as long as we're on the subject of weight training what's the deal with whey protein...??? Does it work, can too much of it be a negative, when should you take it (if you should), etc.....






:3gears::3gears::3gears:

[Reverend Cooper]

Theres no problem with creatin if you use it right. 12 weeks on, 4 weeks off, I went through a jug of it and gained a solid 25 pounds in 2 months lifting 5 times a week, I haven't gone back on it yet though becasue of rugby and other stuff. If you use it right you have nothing to worry about but if you just keep taking it then thats where you start having problems. I know lots of guys that took creatin many years back and there are no long term affects

exactly it has nothing to do with the supplement its taking to much of a good thing that goes bad. just like 2 glasses of red wine are good for your heart, 2 bottles a day will ruin you liver eventually

[Reverend Cooper]

Well as long as we're on the subject of weight training what's the deal with whey protein...??? Does it work, can too much of it be a negative, when should you take it (if you should), etc.....






:3gears::3gears::3gears:

i trained with 1 gram of protein for 1 lb of body weight per day,lifted hard every other day. it will give you bad gas until your body adjusts,you should drink lots of water also. in the morning around noon and after workout. this is what worked for me. may not for you

[Reverend Cooper]

That reminds me of all the hoopla over ephedrine. People just refuse to listen to their bodies. The old original formula of Hydroxycut was a huge help to me in starting to lose wieght like 4 years ago. It showed me some real good results fairly quickly which encouraged me to work out more and lose weight. I lost around 60lbs over a year. Went from around 320lbs to around 260lbs, while upping my strength and muscle mass. The directions on the bottle were kinda crazy, and it didn't take me long to figure out what my body tolerated.

Unfortunately, I quit working out, and eating well a couple years ago and my body went back to hell. lol But none of the supplements I've found have done anything to help give me that starting boost, like the old Hydroxycut did. And if I don't see measureable results fairly quickly, I get discouraged and go back to Ding dongs.

another great example of too much of a supplement that caused deaths due to people takeing double,triple doses of what they should be, like the pro players that have heart attacks due to the abuse of it.its just like drinking way to much water did you know that can kill you also?

[fireguyrick]

The only reason I caution on creatine is due to a rather lengthy discussion I had with an aquaintance of mine. She does research for MCW and at Marquette, specifically she has been doing alot of research in the breakdown of Adenosine Triphosphate (ATP) which is what fuels the body and helps in cell impulse propogation. Creatine is something that comes into play with this. It has been her findings, which will be published shortly, that even the on and off style of creatine can be harmful. She has noticed an increase in kidney issues associated with the usage of creatine, along with other more severe issues involving the central nervous system and the blood circulatory system. I merely am attempting to educate some of you on the danger's of creatine usage.

Yes, there are disputes as to the issues with creatine, which alot has to do with the lack of studies done (up until the last few years). Another issue is, like I said, it does not require FDA approval. So there is really no way in knowing what a "proper" dosage of creatine is. Therefore, there is no guidline as to what one should take, other then uneducated guesses. As it stands most people have an adequate intake of creatine between what they create in the pancreas and what they eat.

Hey, I have known people that have smoked all their live, and they never had any sort of breathing issues or cancers. Besides, it is legal to smoke. Does that mean that it is safe or that the research out there is in dispute?

Rick

And yes, I knew that drinking too much water could kill you prior to the radio incident. The exact problem is called hypernatremia.

[Car Guy]

another great example of too much of a supplement that caused deaths due to people takeing double,triple doses of what they should be, like the pro players that have heart attacks due to the abuse of it.its just like drinking way to much water did you know that can kill you also?



There was a lady on the Opie & Anthony show that drank a gallon of water and then died, it was in the news a few weeks back......






:3gears::3gears::3gears:

[Reverend Cooper]

seems like you getting your feathers ruffled rick, im not claiming to know it all just informing that supplements can be used safely and with great results, you also need to realize a training body needs ore sups than a unhealthey untrained body again jmo

[PureSound15]

I love creatine, aside from protein it is one of my favorite supplements. That being said, I do have a close friend that has had pain in his kidneys from taking 3x the recommended amount of creatine (I never said he was a smart friend).

Anyone who has worked out after cycling on to creatine will vouch that there is nothing else like it. The energy you have is ridiculous, getting in those extra reps really adds up. Also with that, there are people who take creatine and don't utilize it and end up looking "puffy" because they're body stores too much water. My point being, it's a great thing if used correctly but I do recognize that it could be harmful. I cycle it and do just fine.

Protein is a must. I try to stick as much protein in my body as I can with a somewhat "normal" diet, but I notice much faster gains while I'm supplementing what protein I lack during the day. The gas you get can clear a church, but eating before hand and your body getting used to it is a big help.

As far as nitric oxide supplements, I'm not a fan. I've taken them and have seen the results, but to me it's like going to a strip club. Other than "faster delivery" by in effect providing more blood flow, I don't understand of having a "perm-a-pump" for an extended amount of time only to have it leave you once you're off the supplement. The feeling is cool and while you're on it it's cool, but other than that I don't get it. It's like having a girl strip for you and then having to go to work, pointless (unless you're coop, who's infatuated with the men he can stare at when working).

[05caddyext]

I have an extremely hard time believing you gained 25lbs of solid muscle in 2 months by lifting 5x a week. Those are "barry bonds" type results. Creatine makes you gain water weight to, many people actually think they are getting more muscle mass when in fact you just look bigger because your muscles are saturated with water.

I lift 5x a week, all natural. Have had to deal with several injuries but have been lifting for about 2 years. I have nearly doubled my bench press, but now results are very slow. That becomes the problem over time, you see huge results in the beginning and then the rest takes forever.

Bowflex - waste of money. You can join a gym that has much more equipment for the same price youll pay a month for those. Look in the newspaper there are probably about 10 of them in there for sale right now. If you really want to get fit and gain muscle mass, you have to become dedicated to it. For every 1 week you take off, you lose at least 2 weeks of progress.

[awsomeears]

Glad I started this thread.......................

Good info on here more then I thought :-)

[Nix]

these units can be found from $300 to $500.

Where have you seen them at this price? Im only asking cause I was actually thinking about picking one up myself.:)

[Cryptic]

Where have you seen them at this price? Im only asking cause I was actually thinking about picking one up myself.:)

There's probably 100's of them out there barley used for sale.

[Prince Valiant]

Here's topics I deal with nearly everyday....

First of, I agree with Fireguyrick, not a big fan of creatine.

Aside from the unknown long term effects to health, another big objection should be this: if it works, it doesn't work well.

Most of the best designed, double blind studies done on creatine have come up with a big "Maybe? It might make a small, barely perceptable improvement as measured through objective means". That's not exactly a ringing testimony as to it's efficacy, you know?

I know that there are many who offer that "it works wonders for me" as anectdotal evidence...but there is a reason anectdotal evidence is considered unreliable.

First off, look at how the product is considered "best" used; Cycling on and off, coinciding the weight lifting regimen to reflect their creatine usage. When you are "on" you are encouraged to take advantage of the creatine and go "heavy" in the weight room.

Of course, it's the lifting that'll eventually make you stronger...everyone concedes this fact. But the creatine connoisseur says that you'll be able to lift "more" and recover "faster" helping you, again, lift "more". Thus increasing the efficacy of the "heavy" cycle.

This is debatable. Research has shown, at best only minimal, objective, and hardly significant, statiscal gains...

So, as any wise weightlifter would do, one then has a period where they don't lift heavy. They continue to lift, but in keeping the volume of the lifting, and the amounts of the weights somewhat less, there body is thus able to recover, repair, and more effectively add muscle tissue (since this is how the body builds muscle mass...you lift, this breaks down tissue, the body percieves a need for more tissue, and thus when it repairs, repairs with more muscle tissue thus making you stronger and more massive).

In running, cycling, swimming, this cycle is similar to what is called "tappering" in which you cut down the volume, and only infrequently hit high intensity to give your body time to recover from heavy and intense training. Tappering in these sports are oftentimes done so as to get a personal best effort in a competition, IE run, bike, swim as fast as they possibly can.

So after this off cylce, the body is repaired and ready to go...so when you go back on, guess what? You are surprised at how well you are lifting. You are surprised at how good it feels almost. You are probably putting up much more than you expected. And let me tell you, it can be startling, even for me when training with clients and how well they do.

But, let's say you were taking creatine....that's when you are cycling "on" with it too. You'll naturally correlate the cylcing "on" the creatine with the improved performance in the weight room...but this doesn't neccessarily reflect a "causation".

So two things are likely happening when erroneous anectdotal evidence is offered:
1. The placebo effect may be responsible; Through suggestion, belief, expectancy, cognitive reinterpretation, and diversion of attention, athletes given biologically useless substances often "feel" they've experienced measurable improvement; These are subjective changes that make athletes feel they've improved even though there would have been no objective change in their performance over doing the same exercises on that day without the supplement.

2. Crediting the wrong thing; When you are doing something "outside the norm", and you notice an improvement, you tend to give disportionate credit to your "alternative" approach. And while there is a perfectly valid reason to explain why one sees a dramatic improvement during the so-called "on" cylce that has nothing to do with creatine, most will simply attribute it to the creatine.

Another weightlifting fallacy is the importance of protien....I'm not saying that it's insignificant, because it does play an important role. I'm saying that it's always overstated.

Again, it's a confusion as to what the body needs to build muscle mass. Everyone gets it right in thinking that protien is the body preferred source for muscle building.

And most everyone knows that, again, weightlifting works via lifting causes muscle breakdown-body then rebuilds the tissue in greater quantity than it was before.

But, what people seem to want to assume is that this muscle breakdown and subsequent rebuilding needs is massive amounts of protien. It doesn't.

MOST of the protien that the body needs during this cycle is already in the body. Muscle is comprised primarily of protien...you break it down and what do you have floating around? Yup, protien...and the bulk of it is available to be re-used as muscle again.

Yeah, so the body wants to build MORE muscle than was there before...hence protien's REAL and BENIFICAL role in the diet of the weight lifter. Even then, only a moderate increase in the amount of protien over and above the daily recomendation is needed. So 10-20% of a normal diet is recommended to come in the form of protien, so we need 25% tops, if weight gain is the goal.

What SHOULD be noted is that the american diet is VERY rich in protien...for most of us, we already exceed the 25% that is needed for the weightlifter, so therefore supplementing with protien is effectively useless.

But can over supplementation be detrimental? IMO, yes.

The reason is this: When lifting, if you want to lift more, recover faster, and thus be able to come back and lift again sooner, the body needs energy.

Therefore, your diet should reflect that need...and should be suitable to giving you enough energy to meet the demands of lifting weight.

Problem is, that protien is THE poorest source of energy that the body has available to it. It utilizes oxygen the least effectively, even though it possess the same amount of calories as carbs...but carbs utilizes oxygen at a near 100% ratio, fat ~ 70% and protiens ~ 50%. So carbs is the best form of energy we have, even if it doesn't have the most calories per gram.

So, if you are dedicating a large protion of your diet to protien, then you aren't utilizing the calories you are ingesting as effectively as you could...you are leaving energy on the table, so to speak. Energy that could be going to the lifting that is needed to increase the lean muscle mass....energy that is needed to repair muscle tissue....energy needed to recover more quickly for the next lifting session.

The basic jist is this: In order to add mass, you DO need to ingest more calories...the amount of food you ingest should be roughly ~ 25% composed of protiens, and supplementation isn't needed to achieve this amount. Your diet should reflect your increased need for readily available energy, so carbs should still make up the most of it. To add the extra mass as lean muscle, then one NEEDS to do heavy ressistance training.

Hope that clears some things up....

[PureSound15]

^^^^

I'm not sure that there has been more of an informative post on this forum in quite a while, good information and thank you.

I do agree that a lot of the gains people experience while on supplements whether its protein or creatine, are from the person working harder and thinking that the supps arethe root of their strength. On the other hand, I'm very skeptical of supplements, I don't take much and the ones that I do take, I only use because without changing my routine, I notice performance gains in addition to a good diet.

Prince, in your opinion what is the best method as far as reps and sets? I have been lifting for a long time and honestly notice no difference in gains between a few reps at heavier weights and more reps at a lighter weight, if anything I'd say that it would seem that I am able to lean out faster while doing more reps (which makes sense) but at the same time I experience the same gains.

Is that all in my head or what have you experienced?

[Prince Valiant]

Prince, in your opinion what is the best method as far as reps and sets?
I'm big in the "design" of a program....so mixing up various techniques.

A short version of what I have people generally do for increased mass/strength is this:

1.Intro phase: 3 weeks of general lifting, 4 day a week with 2 days being chest/shoulders/triceps and 2 days being biceps, back, legs. I preffer 2 sets, 8-12 repititions, with at a weight that will cause failure by the 12th rep on the second set. If you fail before 8, then back off the amount of weight till you can get 8 on the second set. This will get the body aclimated to lifting, and coordinate the muscle contractile units giving you significant gains to the non-lifter right there.

2. 1st Building phase: 4-6 weeks. I use a basic pyramid set; 1 set a rep you can do 12-15 times and you go to failure. If you can't do 12, decrease the weight next time...if you can do more than 15, increase the weight for that set the next time too. True for all the sets in this scheme. 2 set is 8-10 reps. 3rd set is 4-6 reps. 4th set is 1-3 reps. 5th set, go back to the weight you used first set, and do to failure.

This gives a simple framework to do the most important part thing in weightlifting, and that's progression. Lifting more is the key...and this gives a good framework to progress at as fast as your body will allow.

Same thing though, 4 days a week, groups divided into synergistic muscle groups.

3. Then I take a three week easy as the first phase...just back to the basic lifts as in phase 1, but using only 65-75% of one rep max, 2 sets 15 reps max. 2-maybe 3 times a week...the 3rd day you'd just combine all muscle groups, but do less lifts for each.

4. Back into a building phase- But now you'll do three weeks of "overloading". You need a good partner/spotter for all lifts.

Basically you do most of your lifts with more weight than you can lift. First set is a basic warm-up and do an easy weight 15 times. Second set gets a good load going, a weight you can do 3-6 times. 3rd set, you lift greater than your one rep max...you'll do eccentric lifting so to speak, you just control the weight down as best you can with the spotter helping. Then you and the spotter lift it back to the starting point. You do a total of 6-10 reps like this...or if total failure occurs sooner.

Weight should be an amount that you can't actively lift on your own, but not so much as to be dangerous.

5. Back to two weeks of an "off" period where it's like section number 3.

6. Then back to section number two for a 3-4 week period.

This is a basic frame-work that easy to follow and extremely effective (as I find it). I do like to mix things up and bring out the medicine balls, or do cardio stuff...I'm less about the legs and ressistance than using body weight and endurance. But the above has the flexibility to accomodate all.

I also will take 2 days out during some of the heavy phases out during 1 of the weeks to do negative sets for 1 day with the basic lifts (starting with a short warm-up, then do a one rep max or till failure, so two or three reps. Then take a plate off and go till failure. Keep removing plates until you are pressing the bar only and each time, go to failure. Don't rest more than 30 seconds b/w sets).

My best case was one of our football player and I worked at this...he went from 175 to 195, still drop .3 ths in his 40 time, increased his bench from 225 to 285. Too bad, he's giving up football in college to play baseball.

[sidewayzbimmer]

on a side note i get a discount on supplements. No commision earned for me just helping out 25% off. Let me know it may still not be the cheapest but i can get prices. pm me for details.