Toyota quality concerns

[Cjburn]

Even though I have owned 3 different Toyota's, 2 Honda's, and 5 Nissan's, and I'm biased towards these brands, I do believe that quality standards of GM's brands and Fords are actually quite good, rather different than what you'd read in your average automotive rag. We've had discussions about this in the past (pertaining to perceived bias towards "foreign" car manufacturers) and I believe magazines tend to praise foreign manufacturers while even though a domestic manufacturer produces a similar product, is nit-picked to death.

http://forums.motortrend.com/70/6294595/the-general-forum/toyota-tundra-having-more-problems-camshaft-gone-c/

There were rumors from some dealers of garbage 5.7's coming straight off of the truck. Cheaper plastics, cheaper electronics, all in the future for Toyota, this giant who (in some people's eyes) can do nothing wrong. Even still, I pretty much will always drive what I like, and these tend to be a Honda, Toyota, or a Nissan...

[Cryptic]

the article isnt coming up for me... is this just one person saying they had a camshaft wipe on them?

[Windsors 03 Cobra]

No,no,no this must be a typo or an article about a Ford. Toyotas run to 700k with no problems, consumer distorts told me right there in the magazine. The camry was hand built by GOD.

[BOSS LX]

Nice!

I like how the Toyota dealer on Capitol has a Tundra pulling a bobcat, and they needed to place the bobcat about 2 feet from the dove tail.:rolf

But at least they look good.:thumbsup

[Yooformula]

no no no, the LS1 was built by GOD

[Windsors 03 Cobra]

Jesus built my hotrod.

[flackjacket]

pronounced hay-sus. he lives on the southside

[nismodave]

<<<<<<Waits for Coops comments.

[Breecher_7]

Nice!

I like how the Toyota dealer on Capitol has a Tundra pulling a bobcat, and they needed to place the bobcat about 2 feet from the dove tail.:rolf

But at least they look good.:thumbsup

Ive said it before and ill say it again.

New Tundra = Turd!

381hp? Where? If its under the hood it sure doesnt seem like it......

That transmission seaches for gears with a load on it more then a ricer that cant drive.........

[michelle]

At least Toyota is handling the cam issue better then Ford is with the V8 SHO motors. They are still in denial, even with 815 documented cam failed V8's so far.

[Windsors 03 Cobra]

Didnt the SHO engines last 100k tho ? These are zero mile engines breaking cams.

A co-workers sienna van killed itself with huge amounts of sludge. 50k miles on an 01 and he got a new or rebuilt engine installed by yota, $5,500 value.
Very common in yota and lexus 3L engines I guess, yota calls it "oil gelling". Also had alot of trans issues.

[michelle]

Some (or majority, rather) did last to 100k. Others weren't so lucky.

[Cjburn]

Point of this article is that Toyota's growth rate is starting to cost them in the quality department. They rushed product to market, it has some problems, they say it's fixed. Toyota goes a LONG way in pleasing their customers when there are problems, more so than any other manufacturer. Safro Lexus sent roses (for a mothers funeral) to a customer when they were having problems with the cold start fuel enrichment maps on the IS350 when they first came out. It was washing cylinders down with fuel with the first programming and they COULD NOT get it fixed initially. I think they build a great car, but are they leaps and bounds above everyone else, I have a hard time believing that these days, and all you read about is how every domestic manufacturer produces crap, and Toyota can do no wrong.

[Junky Giorgio]

statistics speak louder than words.....

TOYOTA out sold GM last quarter!

Obviously they're doing something right.

[Waver]

hasnt toyota outsold gm every quarter in the last few years?

[Yooformula]

still not number 1 though. I am sure it will happen soon but until then....2nd place is still 1st place loser.

[Poncho]

tides will change w/ new GM product. awaiting a G8, GTO, Camaro an a GN (in my dreams)

[Reverend Cooper]

yeah just like the fords gt-500 with crankshafts fractureing and the dampner falling off, just like chevy diesals that dont start on the lot off the truck
just like dodges and there shitty diffs and trannies.
saturns and there junk trannies. holy christ the list goes on. all i can say is at least toyota is taking care of it and fixing the problem not just letting it go hoping it might make it out of warranty.
delam on gm's paint, rear trac loc issues on my gen mustang, trans issues on my gen mustang. all i can say is dont hate appreciate. Toyota ftmfw period and if you dont agree its fine i dont give a shit

[Reverend Cooper]

Didnt the SHO engines last 100k tho ? These are zero mile engines breaking cams.

A co-workers sienna van killed itself with huge amounts of sludge. 50k miles on an 01 and he got a new or rebuilt engine installed by yota, $5,500 value.
Very common in yota and lexus 3L engines I guess, yota calls it "oil gelling". Also had alot of trans issues.

yup and they extened the warranty on the trans also youll never see a aerican copany do that. the oil gelling is a direct reflection of not changing the oil. i have and do own a 3L and it has 100k on it and its spotless inside we do oil changes around 5k on it. some its a 1999 and falls right in the middle of the gelling campaign. some asshole with a lawyer started a class action suit because the owners maint manual wasnt worded just right and toyota settled out of court. it was cheaper to take care of the engines people didnt change the oil in then drag it out in court. part of the stipulation is that you produce one oil change reciept per year for the gelling issue, what kind of bullshit is that i would like to see any american produced engines live that life. every manufacturer has their issues toyota just like anyone else. but anytime you american tech's wanna compare tsb books or recall books i will gurantee one thing, our books will be smaller

[88Nightmare]

every auto company has had their good times and bad times. right now toyota is kicking ass. this makes the other automakers step up and try to keep up. everyones got their favoritism, thats what keeps the economy going.

[Cryptic]

Ive said it before and ill say it again.

New Tundra = Turd!

381hp? Where? If its under the hood it sure doesnt seem like it......

That transmission seaches for gears with a load on it more then a ricer that cant drive.........

Have you driven a ford lately? The Tundra certainly shifts better than that hunk of garbage.

My brother has a 2007 5.7L Tundra CrewMax. I'll load up my 24' enclosed car trailer and take it for a spin... I'll report my findings here, but I can honestly say I didn't think the truck was a "turd" for a 5.7L gasser. I'd take that truck over my 5.7 Chevy 2500 any day. My truck doesnt even come close to the mpg and HP that truck puts out.

I'll give it my own real world test and see how it handles a big load.

[Reverend Cooper]

^ now there is a smart man, actual testing not just bench testing and reading other peoples bench test reports. thanks andy

[Waver]

Any vehicle in the first year of production is going to have problems.....look at he corrent hemi ram....in the first year of production there were (at last count) 97 recalls/tsbs out for it....same can be said for ford, gm, and every other manufacturer....when it is a brand new design, it is going to have issues.....they usually get resolved by the 2nd....look at kia, first year they were total junk, now, while they are still are shitty cars, they are some of the more reliable cars out there (and that 100k warrenty helps too)

[88Nightmare]

the tundra's 5.7 cannot realistically be compared to chevy's 5.7. chevy stopped using the 5.7 in 1998, even though afew popped up in the HD trucks in 1999 and 2000, but that engine is 7 years older, and 7 years behind in technology.

[jamest]

tides will change w/ new GM product. awaiting a G8, GTO, Camaro an a GN (in my dreams)

V8's that guzzle gas is going to change GM? I am all for nice muscle cars but lets face it, at 3.40-3.55/gal they will sell more fuel sippers than guzzlers.

[88Nightmare]

idk about that. there are still the people out there that dont care how much fuel their vehicle uses

[84hurst]

statistics speak louder than words.....

TOYOTA out sold GM last quarter!

Obviously they're doing something right.

This is only a result of biased opionions coming from Motor Trend/Consumer Reports, etc. People believe every word that comes out of their mouths, as if these Editors and such are being paid by Toyota/Honda for good reviews. I've personally owned all but one Japenese car, and trust me, no more of that crap again. The domestics make great cars, and somebody besides the consumer should praise them too....

[GRM-REPR]

. but anytime you american tech's wanna compare tsb books or recall books i will gurantee one thing, our books will be smaller

I like the posts and comments you always make (most of the time:)), but this comment made me spit up my cheerios. I worked at Ford for 7yr's as a tech and thought they had a lot of TSB's......That was, until I worked at Acura (Honda)...I had never seen soooo many TSB's (and many of them should've been recalls but weren't) that I had to give Ford a break.

I enjoy reading these threads. As being a tech, I know Toyota makes a "superior" product. Every manufacturer is going to have issues and Toyota is no exception. I wish I had links to some of the articles from last year when Toyota was being put under investigation for many TSB's that were supposed to be saftey recalls, and major fraud...and that is just in Japan, which spread into the American division.

As to talking about a Tundra and the BIG HORSEPOWER it has...oh boo hoo. I didn't know it was soooo important for a big truck to able to merge the fastest into traffic. Frankly, I don't even give a crap that a Chevy has 3xx h.p either, it think truck manufacturers have lost focus, and Tundra's werent selling for shit, so they did what Nissan did and went to truck ralleys (in America of course, cuz a Titan wouldn't be welcome in Japan) and changed their trucks to be more "American". And they are, they break down more often and have gaudy numbers where it makes no difference.

End of story....I will debate till my face turns blue because I've worked in the field for a long time...

P.S. Consumer Reports can kiss my asscheeks.....:headbang


Jon

[GRM-REPR]

Any vehicle in the first year of production is going to have problems.....look at he corrent hemi ram....in the first year of production there were (at last count) 97 recalls/tsbs out for it....same can be said for ford, gm, and every other manufacturer....when it is a brand new design, it is going to have issues.....they usually get resolved by the 2nd....look at kia, first year they were total junk, now, while they are still are shitty cars, they are some of the more reliable cars out there (and that 100k warrenty helps too)

HEMI hasn't been American since it was bought (now sold) to a Euro company. A company that builds their cars on ancient tech (Mercedes :rolleyes:)

There is no reason why ANY engine should have that many "supposed" TSB's on it today. With dyno research, it should go into the vehicle, and provide reliable service for years to come. Diamler rushed this junk out, not America.

KIA?! Come on Neu, don't stick up for that crap. You know where the term "disposable car" came from? Now you know, and others like it. The only reason KIA is getting some "praise" is because Hyundai picked them out of bankruptcy. They are consistently rated low. Just wait till Cherry Auto (from Japan) makes their debut. We will see a whole new wave of garbage flooding an already saturated auto market:fire. They were supposed to be here already, but lucky for us, their shit still couldn't meet our country's emissions standards.

A question: why on Earth does a vehicle need to have an 100k mile warranty? One thing I don't know, does Toyota or Honda? Any facts?

[xxsn0blindxx]

Every auto manufacturer, heck any manufacturer of any product is going to have failed products and design flaws from time to time. How the manufacturer responds to these failures is what sets them apart. It seems like Toyota has been handling things quite well so far. Toyota has a good reputation for building quality vehicles which no doubt is inflated by a lot of the automotive press, but to say their quality is going down the garbage based on a small percentage of their product id hardly fair. Its easy to target any flaws and place them under a microscope since Toyota is considered to be king of the hill as far as quality goes, but to say their quality is gong down the tubes is a bit extreme.

As far as 100k mile warranties go, they are a great tool for companies that are losing sales due to perceived (or actual) inferior quality. This is one of the ways Hyundai became as successful as they are today. A consumer is more likely to take a chance on a product that has a warranty that will last them about the lifetime of their ownership. The key then is to follow that up with a product that isn't poor quality and the customer will consider that manufacturer for their next purchase as well as recommend them to friends. The 100k mile warranty is a great marketing tool to win over buyers who wouldn't normally consider a company's product. Hyundai has put this into practice with Kia and has also helped to greatly improve their products. A company may drastically increase the quality of their prodcucts, but it takes something special to get a consumer to take a chance on it.

[Nix]

statistics speak louder than words.....

TOYOTA out sold GM last quarter!

Obviously they're doing something right.

Lets see if you say that sometime down the road. Toyota and other foreign auto makers are starting to slip. they are growing too big too fast and they are getting sloppy!!! :durr

So for the time being yes the statistics are in, but all in good time the statistics will be different. Cause it seems to me that the Domestic market has been on the up and up when it comes to the quality of work and the Foreign market is getting sloppy the way the Domestic market use to be.

[GRM-REPR]

A company may drastically increase the quality of their prodcucts, but it takes something special to get a consumer to take a chance on it.

Please don't be one of those types that say KIA is quality:(. Please read above posts if you haven't already. You think gas conscience people are buying KIA?! That is a company building cars aimed at a class that cannot afford to have something more "special". Most people wouldn't mind a Camaro or Mustang, not everyone can afford it, so logically they buy what they can afford.. ala' KIA.

There are some really good replies on this thread, but the thing is, people think Toyota and Honda are good (because they are) and they spent decades trying to prove it. Domestic cars were heaps of shit back in the ol' days, and Japan capitalized on that and burned America. It will also take decades unfortunately to once again gain the publics approval of American autos.

All these bandwagoners can get the hell off of the "hate American cars" crap. Some people can't handle the idea that America has been producing better products, and keep getting better. Although I loath C.R, they are accurate in the facts of reliability: Japan, America, Europe....in that order, with European FAR behind in quality and reliability. That fact can't be argued.

I don't hate Toyota, I give them credit for what they have accomplished. For all the people that think they do no w

[xxsn0blindxx]

Please don't be one of those types that say KIA is quality:(. Please read above posts if you haven't already.

Umm... no... You seem to have completely missed the point and focused on a very minor part of my post. The quality of Kia has increased since Hyundai took over, there is no doubt of that. However, I never said that they have great quality or even above average quality. The point is that a 100k mile warranty (the something special) will draw customers in, then they must follow that up with a product that has at least average reliability if they want to have repeat customer. If they succeed it is a great way to turn around a brand image, case-in-point Hyundai, which is now attempting to do this with Kia.


You think gas conscience people are buying KIA?!

Well they make several fuel-efficient vehicles, so yeah I would think people who are gas conscience would consider a Kia.


That is a company building cars aimed at a class that cannot afford to have something more "special". Most people wouldn't mind a Camaro or Mustang, not everyone can afford it, so logically they buy what they can afford.. ala' KIA.

I would mostly agree there, although a lot of people can afford much more expensive cars than what they own. I also disagree with your comparison since buyers are typically choosing a Kia over other cars in the same class. Most buyers are comparing a Kia Optima with a Camry or Impala rather than a Mustang or a 350Z. I'd be more inclined to say they are appealing to people who don't want to spend much on a car. A lot of people simply want point a to point b cars and want to spend the least amount possible to meet their needs. A cheap Hyundai or Kia with a 100k warranty might appeal to this kind of person.

[GRM-REPR]

Umm... no... You seem to have completely missed the point and focused on a very minor part of my post. The quality of Kia has increased since Hyundai took over, there is no doubt of that. However, I never said that they have great quality or even above average quality. The point is that a 100k mile warranty (the something special) will draw customers in, then they must follow that up with a product that has at least average reliability if they want to have repeat customer. If they succeed it is a great way to turn around a brand image, case-in-point Hyundai, which is now attempting to do this with Kia.



Well they make several fuel-efficient vehicles, so yeah I would think people who are gas conscience would consider a Kia.



I would mostly agree there, although a lot of people can afford much more expensive cars than what they own. I also disagree with your comparison since buyers are typically choosing a Kia over other cars in the same class. Most buyers are comparing a Kia Optima with a Camry or Impala rather than a Mustang or a 350Z. I'd be more inclined to say they are appealing to people who don't want to spend much on a car. A lot of people simply want point a to point b cars and want to spend the least amount possible to meet their needs. A cheap Hyundai or Kia with a 100k warranty might appeal to this kind of person.

Good points, nothing to disagree with there.

I was told that the warranty doesn't cover everything on the car anyways. I'd like more info that to state facts from fiction.

My friend's gf had to get a car, the only one she could afford was a KIA Sephia. By 30k, the car had just about fallen apart. That is the image they hold for me.:(

[Cjburn]

All my point was, is that there is a large media bias towards foreign manufacturers, and Toyota's in general. Toyota's quality has slipped since the 90's, period. Drive what you like, it's going to break anyways. I guess you can consider me a Toyota fan boy, but I'm not blind. However, I don't think Ford or GM produces that inferior of a product because consumer reports sampling pool sucks.

[xxsn0blindxx]

Good points, nothing to disagree with there.

I was told that the warranty doesn't cover everything on the car anyways. I'd like more info that to state facts from fiction.

My friend's gf had to get a car, the only one she could afford was a KIA Sephia. By 30k, the car had just about fallen apart. That is the image they hold for me.:(

I believe the 100k warranties cover drivetrain and the bumper-to-bumper is shorter, but that seems to be standard affair in the auto industry.

The experience your friend's gf had with Kia and the opinion you, she and about 90% of America have formed about Kia's quality is exactly what they are trying to fix. This is in fact a perfect example. The Sephia is one of the pre-Hyundai Kias that totally sucked. From what I understand Kia is starting to make some pretty competent vehicles now. Really if a company is going to offer a 100k warranty they have a lot riding on that product being reliable. GM has implemented the 100k warranty as well because they too have gotten a bad rap for quality, deserved or not. Hopefully this will work as well for them as it did for Hyundai.

[xxsn0blindxx]

All my point was, is that there is a large media bias towards foreign manufacturers, and Toyota's in general. Toyota's quality has slipped since the 90's, period. Drive what you like, it's going to break anyways. I guess you can consider me a Toyota fan boy, but I'm not blind. However, I don't think Ford or GM produces that inferior of a product because consumer reports sampling pool sucks.

I can totally agree with that. Even Toyota techs will tell you that the new cars aren't as good as the late 80s and 90s cars.

I think American manufacturers are putting out much better vehicles today than the crap that came out in the 90s. Let's just hope that the new cars can save them before its too late.

[300pny]

Buy what you like and take care of it the best ya can. All cars and car companies have shitty issues and parts that suck!

[Reverend Cooper]

dood grim no offense lets check fords tsb's that should be recalls for people dieing,dates back to the pinto,the exploder toyota has not had a recal to date that i am aware of that has caused a death, now i would need to didg into that further to be positive, but we all know ford has had deaths that spurred recalls how about the infamous chevy truck gas tanks that exploded on side impacts so lets look at that fact first. toyota also has cust. support policies for items that arent safety related to extend and help a customer past its reg. warranty. name one manufacturer stateside that does that,you cant they dont. there are plenty of domestic cars i like, but you cant ignore the fact that any american car comp. is so far behind toyota or most other foreign manufacturers in quality its not funny. thats what happens when you bomb the piss out off a country (which is ok in war) but then you sure as hell dont pay to rebuild it with technology that is 40-50 years newer and superior to your own. belive it or not this is how it all started. toyota still ftmfw

[Beagle]

^^^ what he said... toyota for the mother f in win!!!!!!!!!!

[hrsp]

i think toyota i think DURABLE AS HELL....
i think honda i think durable as heck
i think gm i think......."if your lucky"
i think ford i think....poop

this is what "first" comes to mind....


and kia thats a whole other debate about them...lol

[hrsp]

alot of people i know are still "brand loyal"...which to me is stupid if a company builds a good product why not buy it if you can????

[Junky Giorgio]

Lets see if you say that sometime down the road. Toyota and other foreign auto makers are starting to slip. they are growing too big too fast and they are getting sloppy!!! :durr

So for the time being yes the statistics are in, but all in good time the statistics will be different. Cause it seems to me that the Domestic market has been on the up and up when it comes to the quality of work and the Foreign market is getting sloppy the way the Domestic market use to be.

You don't make any sense what so ever on that entire statement. First of all provide proof ie: facts to support your biased opinion. Second of all don't be soo vague when your mainly directing your negative thoughts towards Toyota together with foreign cars as well.

When you guys can sell a 99' Cavalier with 150,000 miles and still get $10K for it then we'll talk about quality and a good product. A 99' Toyota Corolla for example with 150,000 miles in average condition still brings around $8-$10K. Why is this??? QUALITY and good resale value because Toyota builds value in their vehicles unlike GM giving their crap away with $8000 rebates ect.

Just my 0.02

[Slow Joe]

When you guys can sell a 99' Cavalier with 150,000 miles and still get $10K for it then we'll talk about quality and a good product. A 99' Toyota Corolla for example with 150,000 miles in average condition still brings around $8-$10K. Why is this??? QUALITY and good resale value because Toyota builds value in their vehicles unlike GM giving their crap away with $8000 rebates ect.

Just my 0.02

If a '99 Corolla is 8-10k with 150k miles on it... Then I did good when I bought my BRAND NEW '07 one for just over 15k (S, Automatic, Roof, Spoiler, Alloys, PW, PL, CRUISE, TILT, ETC, ETC). Just getting down to it, a '99 Corolla with 150k on the clock is worth about 3500-4500 depending on condition. Similar Cavalier 1500-2500. Dealership perspective.

I'll throw in my .02 right here...

We traded our '06 Fusion for a '07 Corolla... Yes, a step down in size. Fusion is about the same size as Camry. I expected the Toyota to have better materials used for trim and such like my Ford did. I was dissapointed there, but then I realized that I traded in a 23k (window sticker) car for a 18k (window sticker) car. It all gets down to this, what do you like more? You can make anything go the miles with proper maintinence (IMO). My '01 Mustang had damn near 90k of abuse on it with very little maintinence over and above oil changes.

[Junky Giorgio]

I was referring to the "retail buyer". fyi

[Slow Joe]

I was referring to the "retail buyer". fyi

So was I...

[Slow Joe]

Example:

'99 LE 125K Miles.. 4995 : http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=223902924&dealer_id=554624&car_year=1999&search_type=both&num_records=25&keywordsfyc=&make=TOYOTA&transmission=&model=COROL&distance=100&make2=&address=53022&default_sort=priceDESC&advanced=&certified=&max_mileage=&max_price=&sort_type=priceDESC&min_price=&body_code=0&end_year=1999&keywordsrep=&color=&start_year=1999&drive=&engine=&fuel=&doors=&style_flag=1&cardist=15