General Motors puts Rear-Wheel-Drive Models on Hold!

[Flicktitty]

GM to hold out on RWD (http://omidr.typepad.com/torque/2007/04/general_motors_.html)

Following the announcements made by President Bush to raise corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) standards, Vice Chairman of GM, Bob Lutz has announced that the company is going to have to put their RWD cars on hold. The Bush administration wants to raise fuel economy standards by 4% a year so that cars will average 34mpg by 2017, compared to 27.5mpg today. In addition the Supreme Court ruled that the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) can now regulate carbon dioxide expelled by cars.

According to a story published by the Chicago Tribune, Bob Lutz has announced that the company's future offerings may be in jeopardy due to the new government announcements. Last week Lutz, announced that the new fuel economy standards could raise the price of cars by $5,000. But now the Vice Chairman is saying that the new standards could also cancel or delay future models that are needed to improve the companies revenue.

The much publicized "zeta" platform that is the basis for the new 2009 Chevy Camaro and upcoming Chevy Impala is in question. "It's too late to stop Camaro, but anything after that is questionable or on the bubble," said Lutz, noting that also means Camaro derivatives -- along with a big Impala sedan, "if we call it Impala."

The main issue is the fact that RWD cars are heavier than FWD cars and the company is going to have issues reaching the lofty mpg goals with RWD cars.

So it comes down to the matter of fuel economy. Or as Lutz says: "We don't know how to get 30 percent better mileage from" RWD cars.

"We'll decide on our rear-drive cars when the government decides on CO(-2) levels and CAFE regulations," Lutz said.

Besides the new Camaro and Impala, other future GM models are also in jeopardy. Future Pontiacs, Buicks and possible high-performance versions of the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky may also be affected

[Poncho]

Goodbye Camaro, Impala, G8, GTO, Solstice, Gran Sport, Sky, and anything else cool we were gonna get.

Goodbye GM.


FU(K YOU GEORGE BUSH.

[Flicktitty]

time to figure out how to make a LSX powered AWD CAR with a 6spd :)

[Heat Seeker WS6]

WTF

Although that makes our RWD cars more desireable

[Beagle]

bush is a fvck stick!

[Yooformula]

I jsut read that GM will be stopping minivan productions and are starting to concentrate more on crossovers to lower the amount of big suvs they sell and thus raising their overall mpg average. I am sure that will help out alot more than simply discontinuing rwd. Half the so called news that comes out rarely pans out with them anymore.

[Poncho]

time to figure out how to make a LSX powered AWD CAR with a 6spd :)

They did.

Holden Monaro Coupe' 4

LSx/AWD/T-56

[Poncho]

I jsut read that GM will be stopping minivan productions and are starting to concentrate more on crossovers to lower the amount of big suvs they sell and thus raising their overall mpg average. I am sure that will help out alot more than simply discontinuing rwd. Half the so called news that comes out rarely pans out with them anymore.


damn I hope it helps enough! otherwise this is the end of the muscle car/horsepower wars.

AGAIN.....

[Flicktitty]

They did.

Holden Monaro Coupe' 4

LSx/AWD/T-56

WHAT WHAT WHAT?????//

pics! specs! Now! lol

[Poncho]

http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/hsv_coupe4.asp

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,11687169-13232,00.html

[Waver]

how come gm cant figure out what ford and chrysler are doing. For every rwd vehiclee that ford sells, they sell 4 few, wich raises the average....chrysler does the same thing.....is this too hard for gm to figure out?

[PonyKiller87]

how come gm cant figure out what ford and chrysler are doing. For every rwd vehiclee that ford sells, they sell 4 few, wich raises the average....chrysler does the same thing.....is this too hard for gm to figure out?

Its not hard to figure out, but nobody wants the little econo boxes that GM makes, only thing people want are the Trucks, SUVs and RWD cars.

[MurphysLaw88GT]

bush is a fvck stick!

i agree, he also sold us out, he vowed so sign the newest AWB if it crosses his desk too

[Waver]

Its not hard to figure out, but nobody wants the little econo boxes that GM makes, only thing people want are the Trucks, SUVs and RWD cars.


So you are saying the people would rather have a fusion or a focus than somthing bigger? Ford and chrysler just saw what the govt was doing earlier, and dont produce as many models of full size suv's, have fewer crossover vehicles, and came out with flex fuel vehicles and hybrids sooner so they could keep their rwd platforms

[MurphysLaw88GT]

godammit

[Poncho]

how come gm cant figure out what ford and chrysler are doing. For every rwd vehiclee that ford sells, they sell 4 few, wich raises the average....chrysler does the same thing.....is this too hard for gm to figure out?

uhhhh the only thing RWD @ ford right now is the mustang and the crown vics anyway...... this'll bone fords future RWD plans and chryslers plans as well, only difference is that globally GM was going RWD onl nearly anything that MATTERED. and chrysler is stuck cuz the big body cars get worse mileage than the last lx type platform, and the v6's that they sell don't do that well mileage wise either for what you get.

[Waver]

uhhhh the only thing RWD @ ford right now is the mustang and the crown vics anyway...... this'll bone fords future RWD plans and chryslers plans as well, only difference is that globally GM was going RWD onl nearly anything that MATTERED. and chrysler is stuck cuz the big body cars get worse mileage than the last lx type platform, and the v6's that they sell don't do that well mileage wise either for what you get.

wrong you are forgetting the other brands under ford....like jag. if you are looking at ford just the brand, then you are correct.

[Poncho]

the miniscule sales of those jags don't affect shit. high-priced british cars aren't the major seller at ford.

i'm talking about the domestic brand ford/lincoln/mercury. they are the large bulk of all of fords sales, not jag.

[Waver]

the miniscule sales of those jags don't affect shit. high-priced british cars aren't the major seller at ford.

i'm talking about the domestic brand ford/lincoln/mercury. they are the large bulk of all of fords sales, not jag.

um arnt most lincoln vehicles rwd?

[Poncho]

aren't most lincolns suvs? i dunno.. do they sell well?

[Prince Valiant]

the miniscule sales of those jags don't affect shit. high-priced british cars aren't the major seller at ford.
Uh, even the "miniscule" amount of cars sold from a premium outfit like Jaguar can help significantly with ford obtaining a rwd platform for ford's own use...similar scenario with possessing the mustang.

It has everything to do with economies of scale...Have the premium brand develop and engineer the platform, and then help pay for the cost of the platform by using it in cheaper models.

Chrysler did this with the 300/magnum/charger...the foundation for the chassis is essentially the last generation "E-class" mercedes. There are two ways to look at it...the cost and development, ie the investment in that platform, continues to pay dividends as opposed to if they had retired it. Or, the cost of development is much less considering it was mostly developed when it came to them...making it a win win situation.

This is also why ford had proposed the "mustang sedan"...not so much because they wanted to make a sedan and call it a mustang, but because they wanted to get greater return on their investment in the mustang platform by building other more mainstream type cars off of it.

But having a premium brand developing RWD chassis means that ford has greater ability to simply grab a chassis from elsewhere to amortize the cost of egnineering.

In as far as not making the target fuel economy, that's bunk. They could do it...they just don't want to pay the development cost to do so.

However, don't think that this really affects GM's plans (or any other manufactuer either). This is, what is called a "ploy".

They KNOW that everyone and their mother knows that the RWD platform is critical to the survival of GM as we know it...

And as we all know, pro-bussiness politicians have long railed against arbitrary CAFE standards...and ESPECIALLY against instituting regulation of "carbon emissions"

I don't think it's a stretch to call bush a "pro-business" politician either...

BUT, if GM (and soon, others) start putting out the vibes that these new standards might significantly hurt, if not KILL the thing that is critical to the survival...well, all but the most crazed die-in-the-wool liberal tree-hugging politician will, at least want to compromise on what the new standards might be...IE, maybe not a 30% higher CAFE standard...but a 15%. Also, when setting standards to carbon emissions, this will be considered as well.

What? Do you REALLY think the guys at GM didn't think that they'd EVER increase the cafe standards again?

And of course, by putting out the anouncement out there that they want to see higher CAFE standards, at least it can look like to the general voters that the republican party can and does at least work somewhat toward the environment...and that's important because if they didn't, then it can be used in future elections, which then might result in the election of someone who doesn't just "care" about the environment (which is how it'd be played out), but by an enviro-zealot who doesn't give a rats-ass about cars, and thinks everyone should bike and ride buses anyways who'll impose impossible standards anyways so as to make cars so cost-prohibitive (along with arbitrary gas-taxes) that driving becomes beyond costly.

It's a game of politics...you guys bought it hook, line and sinker.

Also, don't forget...trucks and cars are catagorized differently, and have different cafe standards. GM and DC have partly subverted any standards by making "flat-floored vehicles" that are classified as trucks by the EPA, such as the PT and HHR, that get significantly better gas mileage and are favorites of rental car companies.

But even then...blame bush? Ha. It's not like he outlawed rwd cars :rolf

[Waver]

aren't most lincolns suvs? i dunno.. do they sell well?No better than cadillac.....

[Nix]

Does the Vette count?:confused

[Holeshot]

The G8 will not be canceled. Its already being built as the Holden Commodore, The Impala SS for the Middle East and the G8 for PMD. It will be built in Oz through 09. The in Canada on the same platform line as the Camaro.

[Poncho]

I just don't want to see this good thing we have go down the tubes. it happened when my dad was around my age, I don't want to see it again.

funny, my sister is getting all nose in the air, "i bought a hybrid, it has like no emissions whatsover and gets 34mpg on the freeway at like 80mph"

then I say good for you, I just canceled you out. i bought a muscle car, it dumps all sorts of emssions (still a LEV) and gets 20mpg on the freeway at 80mph, and mines no electric scooter like yours.

[lilws6]

only 20? i get an average of 17mpg in my car with my foot to the floor board 90% of the time.

[Poncho]

how much horsepower, how heavy, what gearing?
475+ crank, at least 4000 w/ driver, and 3.46 here.

stock is rated at 21city/25freeway

[300pny]

Goodbye Camaro, Impala, G8, GTO, Solstice, Gran Sport, Sky, and anything else cool we were gonna get.

Goodbye GM.


FU(K YOU GEORGE BUSH.

Wait till the Vette is front wheel drive...That will ba a sight

[TPI Maliblu]

Valiant is right on the money.

Literally.

[300pny]

I heard they were going to do Right wheel drive in the new Camaro but it was a bit hard to control?

:P:

[PB86MCSS]

FU(K YOU GEORGE BUSH.

:rolleyes:

You really think he is the root of the problem here? If the left side had their way it would be even *worse*, depending how you are looking at it.

[Poncho]

:rolleyes:

You really think he is the root of the problem here? If the left side had their way it would be even *worse*, depending how you are looking at it.

yea I see how things have turned around for us since he got in office. :rolleyes:

[TPI Maliblu]

If the left won we wouldn't be dinking around with EGR valves, AIR pumps, or the myriad of vacuum hoses that go with all of the band-aid fixes for emissions compliance. We would have the car manufacturers relying on technology and ingenuity.

Take into account that electric cars have existed for decades, my 66 Fullsize Chevy gets 22 mpg with a 327, and '87 Chevy Sprint Turbos were mildly quick and very fuel efficient (upper 30's). Still the car companies freak out at the thought of raising fuel economy standards? Has technology been dormant for 50 years?!?

We've gone back to the stone ages with everything else since GW took his high chair into office, why not skip fuel economy as well.