I hate these kind of lawsuits [Archive]

Karps TA

04-03-2007, 07:47 PM

A wrongful death lawsuit was filed today against a Waukesha couple concerning the drowning of a 5-year-old boy in their pool in 2004.

William Fabian and Brenda Wandschneider, the parents of the boy, Tyler Fabian, filed the lawsuit in Waukesha County Circuit Court against Raymond and Judith Hatch. The boy died Oct. 23, 2004, after gaining access to the pool by passing through a gate with a latch that had been improperly installed on the outside of the gate, according to the lawsuit.

On May 30, 2003, according to the lawsuit, Waukesha police sent a letter to the Hatch residence "highlighting the dangers of having an in-ground pool and encouraging the defendants to ensure that they have locked access doors and gates" to the pool.

The lawsuit, filed by attorney Paul Bucher on behalf of the dead boy's parents, seeks unspecified damages.
Raymond and Judith Hatch could not be reached for comment on the lawsuit Tuesday.

How about parents pay attention to their kids and teach them not to go onto other peoples property? The death of a kid is tragic, but tell me how there is no negligence on the parents behalf?

And sure didn't take old Bucher long to become an ambulance chaser now did it?

Breecher_7

04-03-2007, 07:53 PM

This is complete crap! Is sueing someone for MONEY going to bring back your child? NO, your just going to RUIN someone elses life that ALREADY has to deal with the fact that a child was killed in there own damn pool. This is sick and shouldnt be tollerated. Courts should just throw out this kind of crap. Mabey the kid is better off being dead, not having to deal with the Idiocy of his money hungry and ignorant parents. This burns my ass. These people should just do the world a favor and shoot themselves. :flipoff: :asshole

Reverend Cooper

04-03-2007, 08:19 PM

if they are smart they will sell everything and ove to florida where they cant make you pay civil suits if i recall thats what oj simpson did

Cjburn

04-03-2007, 08:34 PM

The residents in the house should sue the parents for their "emotional damages" for having to find a dead cripple in their pool.

Reverend Cooper

04-03-2007, 08:35 PM

^oh snap yo....a ringa dinga ding you knocked that right the **** out

Yeehaw

04-03-2007, 08:47 PM

yea sad thing is they most likely will win

Yooformula

04-03-2007, 11:39 PM

sorry but in NJ, you were required by law to have a properly working lock for your pool that got checked by the city yearly. If you failed to have one, then you got a fine. Kids will wander in their own yard but as a home owner you have to protect yourself and have a good lock. If a kid can just open the latch and walk in then you deserve to held laible. The parents are paying a big enough price imo, the other party should hold some liability as well(not to say full guilt but some). Its no different than failure to shovel your walkway and someone falling and suiing you. You are responsible as a home owner.

Goldfinger515

04-04-2007, 12:47 AM

you could go both ways on this. i mean they were told to fix the lock but then again the other parents should have been watching their child. if it was me i would not sue them and try to deal with the loss rather than drag it out in court and let the fingers point where they may

Yooformula

04-04-2007, 12:53 AM

there are too many unknowns. They might have lived next to each other and they may have let those kids swin their often, hell the kid might have chased a ball or something and fell in, we dont know. Which is why there should have been a working lock ESPECIALLY since they were given an officially warning for it. I agree they shouldnt be held criminally responsible but I think some sort of restitution should be in order. You cant put a price tag on a child but even the life insurance maxes out at like $10k for a child so any monetary compensation is better than none.

Breecher_7

04-04-2007, 05:49 AM

I think some sort of restitution should be in order.

Im sorry you feel this way because I think this is rediculous. Those people already have to deal with the mental trama that a child died in there pool. You dont think that will be punishment enough and haunt them for the rest of there lives? Money is not going to bring the kid back. Its all about money money MONEY! Plain and simple..... "You didnt lock the gate and my child died, NOW PAY ME!" This makes no sense... Sorry if you dont agree... but this is my oppinion.

Karps TA

04-04-2007, 08:37 AM

That official warning sounds like a form letter the city puts out to everyone who has a pool to me.

The parents are shifting the blame in order to make themselves feel like they did nothing wrong so they can sleep better at night.

Breecher_7

04-04-2007, 10:45 AM

The parents are shifting the blame in order to make themselves feel like they did nothing wrong so they can sleep better at night.

Exactly how I feel!

Feature Pony

04-04-2007, 10:55 AM

If I remember this right I think it was a birthday party and they are family. I remember they were looking for the kid for a couple of hours untill they checked the pool. I think it bogus to sue someone for that when the parents sould of been watching their kid!!! But again this happened in Waukesha and Paul Bucher is always looking to throw people in jail, except for when his daughter hit the waukesha cop head on while they were driving.

Breecher_7

04-04-2007, 10:56 AM

Im off today, mabey we should go make a scene infront of his office!

Nix

04-04-2007, 11:01 AM

The residents in the house should sue the parents for their "emotional damages" for having to find a dead cripple in their pool.

True true so damn true.

GRM-REPR

04-04-2007, 11:10 AM

I read another article on this today and remembered it when it happened, I also remembered the first thing that popped into my mind, where in the hell was the dead kids stupid parents?

Attack this post if you will but blaming someone for supposedly having a "bad" lock on THEIR pool (yes, the owners pool, not anyones elses) is stinkin' ridiculous! So this article is telling me that for the last 2+ years, this family has not been mourning their loss; but rather contemplating a way to sue the other folks for something that isn't their fault?! WTF is this world coming to?

On the same subject, this reminds me of that fat piece of shit that sued McDonalds because his 2 daughters were fat fuks because all he did was feed them garbage......Now there is the cheeseburger clause: No one can bring such bullshit lawsuits to the courts anymore....thank God.....

My 2 cents.....

GRM-REPR

04-04-2007, 11:12 AM

The parents are shifting the blame in order to make themselves feel like they did nothing wrong so they can sleep better at night.

x1million:fire

subliminal1284

04-04-2007, 11:50 AM

Yup parents messed up. Its their responsibility to look after their kid. Like you said all they are doing is trying to make themselves feel better and think its not their fault. Suing someone isnt going to bring them back. Knowing the douche bags up here in WI they will probably win.

Flight_740

04-04-2007, 12:12 PM

Amazing how parents refuse to take responsability for their own children these days.

Yes, the lock should have been on there properly but the parents should also be keeping an eye on their flippen kids!!! That should really be first and foremost as to a locked gate!!

flyin_blue_egg

04-04-2007, 12:39 PM

On the same subject, this reminds me of that fat piece of shit that sued McDonalds because his 2 daughters were fat fuks because all he did was feed them garbage......Now there is the cheeseburger clause: No one can bring such bullshit lawsuits to the courts anymore....thank God.....

My 2 cents.....

thats the same exact thing i was thinkin about

Teufelhunden

04-04-2007, 12:55 PM

I don't know how the rest of you grew up, but I sure the hell didn't grow up tethered by a leash. Neither did any of my of friends for that matter. But then again, I knew my Dad would "knock my block off" if I did anything stupid. Also, there was always the threat of my dad "reaching down my throat and turning me inside out" as well. The guy was a genius.:thumbsup

:devil Devils Advocate:devil : FACT, If the gate was secured/locked per the written warning from the cops, this would not have happened. Who freaking ignores a EASILY FIXED safety violation when the cops warn you about it? It's a tragedy that a $50 fix would have kept a little boy from drowning.

GRM-REPR

04-04-2007, 01:13 PM

:devil Devils Advocate:devil : FACT, If the gate was secured/locked per the written warning from the cops, this would not have happened. Who freaking ignores a EASILY FIXED safety violation when the cops warn you about it? It's a tragedy that a $50 fix would have kept a little boy from drowning.

Aside from the true tragedy, the flip side of this the shear fact that the parents of the deceased are doing the American Twist; a lawsuit. That is in the absolute poorest taste imaginable. Personally I'm sick and flippin' tired of people like the ones suing making headlines about "justice" having to be served. Hey, how about you do your duty as a parent and watch your kids better.

As for your comment about you being younger and not held on a leash, when you're old enough to grow up and realize your surroundings, you damn well better be on a VERY short leash! We were, and guess what, we didn't wander into anyones pool or get lost. For the record, I'm just using your comments and I'm not ripping you at all, it provided a good base for argument.

Well ladies and gentlemen, learn from this, fix all your "broken" things and wrap your sharp objects in bubble wrap when your kids friends are coming over, because it might be you that is next in line for a pathetic lawsuit like this one...

My 2cents

subliminal1284

04-04-2007, 01:32 PM

Or teach your fing kids to swim! I grew up in Florida so I always knew how to swim as a kid.

Karps TA

04-04-2007, 01:41 PM

When I was in high school we tore down our pool because so many kids moved into the neighborhood and their parents would just let them wander all over the place. It wasn't worth the risk. It's pretty shitty though that as a homeowner you have to spend a bunch of time and money securing your stuff on your property so that some waterhead kids don't hurt themselves while trespassing.

Wouldn't surprise me if a car thief stole your car and the seat belts didnt work and the guy ends up in an accident and sues you over it.

indyzmike

04-04-2007, 01:42 PM

Even if the fence was locked and was code legal, the parents could still sue and win a lawsuit. My lawer told me that he would never have a swimming pool. Waaaaay too much risk. Someone could climb over the fence and still win in court.

GRM-REPR

04-04-2007, 02:13 PM

Wouldn't surprise me if a car thief stole your car and the seat belts didnt work and the guy ends up in an accident and sues you over it.

Remember the asshole who broke into the lady's house years ago, fell thru the skylight and broke his leg? He sued and won.:rolleyes:

indyzmike

04-04-2007, 02:15 PM

A worse scenario is when someone dives off the diving board and breaks their neck when they carelessly plow head first into the bottom of the pool. When the plaintiffs wheel the quadrapelegic's wheelchair into the courtroom in front of the jury, the defendants loose. The owners of the pool, the installer of the pool, the manufacturer of the diving board, and the manufacturer of the pool are all at risk.

Teufelhunden

04-04-2007, 02:28 PM

:) For argument sake...

As for your comment about you being younger and not held on a leash, when you're old enough to grow up and realize your surroundings, you damn well better be on a VERY short leash! We were, and guess what, we didn't wander into anyones pool or get lost. For the record, I'm just using your comments and I'm not ripping you at all, it provided a good base for argument. Can you honestly say your parents were attentively watching you and each of your siblings 100% of the time, 24/7/365?

Well ladies and gentlemen, learn from this, fix all your "broken" things and wrap your sharp objects in bubble wrap when your kids friends are coming over, because it might be you that is next in line for a pathetic lawsuit like this one... It was a lock on a pool gate. A couple hours of work to fix, if that. Not some ambiguous safety hazard. Fix it, it's not like the city wanted a 10' fence put up around the pool. It was spelled out to him in writing and he CHOSE to ignore it.

Who's the bigger bigger dumbass?
-A guy who puts his family's well being in jeopardy by ignoring a well known safety hazard which opens you up for a lawsuit (and not mentioning the regret and emotional damage) or
-Parents of the dead 5 y.o. suing the pool owner's insurance company within the law.

I bet he lays awake at night regreting he didn't fix the lock and wishing he wasn't a lazy dumbass.[/devil's advocate]

Teufelhunden

04-04-2007, 02:30 PM

For the record, I wouldn't sue.

GRM-REPR

04-04-2007, 02:38 PM

:) For argument sake...

Can you honestly say your parents were attentively watching you and each of your siblings 100% of the time, 24/7/365?

It was a lock on a pool gate. A couple hours of work to fix, if that. Not some ambiguous safety hazard. Fix it, it's not like the city wanted a 10' fence put up around the pool. It was spelled out to him in writing and he CHOSE to ignore it.
Who's the bigger bigger dumbass?
-A guy who puts his family's well being in jeopardy by ignoring a well known safety hazard which opens you up for a lawsuit (and not mentioning the regret and emotional damage) or
-Parents of the dead 5 y.o. suing the pool owner's insurance company within the law.

I bet he lays awake at night regreting he didn't fix the lock and wishing he wasn't a lazy dumbass.[/devil's advocate]

This ISN'T the point, it also isn't that the owner had a faulty lock on his gate. The problem here is that the parents DIDN'T watch their kid as well as they should've. It is painfully obvious that this kid must've wandered around quite a bit, the parents sure the hell didn't care, if they did, they would've have provided better parenting skills then they exhibited.

No parent in the world can watch their child 24/7-365, it's damn near impossible. But when you consider the dangers that can happen to them when you're not watching them, then who is held responsible when something like this happens? Of course it is the parents responsibility.

This article has turned my stomach and seems like many others. It is the typical bullshit that we have become accustomed to. People NOT taking responsibilty for their actions, because it is the parents lack of actions that led to their childs' death.

I also think the family suing will win, because now we all have to have bleeding hearts for them because of their stupidity.

Breecher_7

04-04-2007, 02:59 PM

I still dont agree with the lawsuit and believe the parents should be Hung for such stupidity. MONEY DOES NOT BRING YOUR KID BACK!

They were not convicted of Homicide, Murder, Manslaughter or anything along those lines, some bastard kid wandered on THERE property and threw himself in the pool. Tough sh!t, it sucks, but deal with it and move on. To sit there an resurect the past for MONEY is rediculous.

He threw himself in the pool, its HIS fault or the parents fault, I dont give a damn if the gate was unlocked.

These people have a one way ticket to hell waiting for them.

Teufelhunden

04-04-2007, 03:06 PM

People NOT taking responsibilty for their actions.You're saying the pool owner can't share any of the blame in this situation?

Breecher_7

04-04-2007, 03:10 PM

You're saying the pool owner can't share any of the blame in this situation?

Was the pool owner the childs parent? NO

Did the pool owner want that kid on there property? PROBABLY NOT!

I dont feel they should be liable at all, but liablility isnt the question here. The question is weather it is acceptable for the family to seek a MONITARY settlement? Because thats going to make everything better right?

Like i said, Hang em.......

Teufelhunden

04-04-2007, 03:20 PM

Easy killer...step away from the coffee. ;)

Yeah, hang 'em, thats the answer.

Do you know the whole story in this case? PROBABLY NOT! :durr

Karps TA

04-04-2007, 03:22 PM

I'm sure Bucher will get the truth out in court. I bet it turns out that Chumura was nailing the babysitter who was suppossed to be watching the kid.

Breecher_7

04-04-2007, 03:26 PM

I'm sure Bucher will get the truth out in court. I bet it turns out that Chumura was nailing the babysitter who was suppossed to be watching the kid.

Bwahahahahahahaha.

Now hanging them may not be realistic but the point im trying to get across is that they are morons for filing this lawsuit. Its just not right and shouldnt be tollerated. Screwing up that families life more then it probably already is makes no sense and is greedy and serves no purpose other then making there wallet bigger.

subliminal1284

04-04-2007, 03:31 PM

I agree homeowners should not be held responsible for someone tresspassing on their property and getting hurt. If the kid was visiting their house and drowned on the homeowners watch then I think it would be fair for them to file a lawsuit. The homeowners should file a counter suit against the parents for the emotional distress their child tresspassing and drowning in their pool has caused them. I hope they get a conservative judge and the judge tells the parents to get out of his courtroom.

Breecher_7

04-04-2007, 03:35 PM

The homeowners should file a counter suit against the parents for the emotional distress their child tresspassing and drowning in their pool has caused them. I hope they get a conservative judge and the judge tells the parents to get out of his courtroom.

OOOO...I really like this post. Yes I agree, this would be a great comeback for there nonsense lawsuit and would make a great statement. Mabey you should be a lawyer! :thumbsup

Teufelhunden

04-04-2007, 03:41 PM

Now hanging them may not be realistic but the point im trying to get across is that they are morons for filing this lawsuit. Its just not right and shouldnt be tollerated. Screwing up that families life more then it probably already is makes no sense and is greedy and serves no purpose other then making there wallet bigger.I don't think anyone is contesting that point.

Reality is that some people suck, and our judicial system sucks even more. Unfortunately with the current system you have to protect yourself from them and their lawyers.

Breecher_7

04-04-2007, 03:42 PM

Now thats the truth. Still shouldnt be tollerated though.

Teufelhunden

04-04-2007, 03:45 PM

Fighting one frivolous lawsuit with another isn't the answer either. I'd fine both parties for bringing it to that point.

Breecher_7

04-04-2007, 03:46 PM

If it got to that point. I wouldnt file the countersuit unless they didnt drop there "rob the bank" suit.

SmokinRAM114

04-04-2007, 04:28 PM

im not personally going through a law suit like this but some one i know is going through a similar thing. Some of you may remember my friend who was killed last december (05) while operating a tow truck in brookfield. Well the employer had him working illegally as he was in a work release for automotive class. they had him working illegal hours and operating a tow truck/flat bed. The employer recived A LOT of fines for this but now over a year later something came up where my friends parents have a choice of either they sue the auto teacher and the principal of the school or the state will. All because someone felt that the teacher and principal should have known what was going on at the job which they thaught they did.

Teufelhunden

04-04-2007, 04:49 PM

Where's all the "It's the stupid parents fault" posts now?

GRM-REPR

04-04-2007, 05:23 PM

Breecher_7

04-04-2007, 05:40 PM

I could justify that lawsuit, thats completely different

Cjburn

04-04-2007, 05:41 PM

Where's all the "It's the stupid parents fault" posts now?

Right here. Parents are being held accountable for their children's truancy these days. Why are they not being held accountable for their child's behavior while doing something ILLEGAL, like trespassing? If shit like this continues, you're going to start seeing PETA suing pool owners for drowned raccoons in their pools for cruelty to animals. I got an idea, if we make up enough laws, and sue EVERYONE when something unfortunate happens, then for sure nothing bad will ever happen. GO SOCIALISM!!!!

Breecher_7

04-04-2007, 05:42 PM

Right here. Parents are being held accountable for their children's truancy these days. Why are they not being held accountable for their child's behavior while doing something ILLEGAL, like trespassing? If shit like this continues, you're going to start seeing PETA suing pool owners for drowned raccoons in their pools for cruelty to animals. I got an idea, if we make up enough laws, and sue EVERYONE when something unfortunate happens, then for sure nothing bad will ever happen. GO SOCIALISM!!!!

Yet another great agree upon point! :thumbsup

Yooformula

04-04-2007, 05:44 PM

yet noone still knows the exact details of the drowning. My opinion hasnt changed and probably wont unless the parents were gone for the day and left him outside but I think the full facts really need to be brought out.

Who was it that said that after 2 years the parents werent grieving instead thinking about a lawsuit? Did you ever think that every waking and restless hour in bed isnt consumed with the loss of their child? I am willing to bet that most people here dont have kids that have such a sharp unmoving opinion. Parents may still be against the lawsuit but are more willing to listen and at least take into considerations ALL of the facts before basing their hard lined opinions.

I found an article about it and it stated that the kid was looking for his friend and fell into the pool that was not locked and completely covered with leaves. Even the police and father that found the boy couldnt tell there was a pool there as it was completely covered over. Ftr, a young boy died just 3 months earlier in the same town due to a drowning in an unlocked pool.

Teufelhunden

04-04-2007, 05:49 PM

Karps TA

04-04-2007, 05:59 PM

I can tell you what likely happened. 2 years ago when this happened the neighbor felt terrible about this and grieved with the parents. The parents told him it wasnt his fault. Bucher being the county DA at the time wanted to press charges against the neighbor for negligence, however the police found no evidence stating as such and refused to continue it. Bucher now out of a job is going and knocking on the doors of all the poor souls who were "wronged" during that time and told the parents how terrible it was that their neighbors killed their child out of laziness and negligence and how he's no longer part of the "system" he could finally bring closure to their pain and suffering by getting them a bunch of money. Bucher figures out that he can make a new living this way, all he needs is a high profile case to get him started.

That's what I think happened.

Teufelhunden

04-04-2007, 06:07 PM

Parents may still be against the lawsuit but are more willing to listen and at least take into considerations ALL of the facts before basing their hard lined opinions.Ahem.

P.S. I hate lawyers.

GRM-REPR

04-04-2007, 06:09 PM

[QUOTE=Yooformula;258724]
Who was it that said that after 2 years the parents werent grieving instead thinking about a lawsuit? Did you ever think that every waking and restless hour in bed isnt consumed with the loss of their child? I am willing to bet that most people here dont have kids that have such a sharp unmoving opinion. Parents may still be against the lawsuit but are more willing to listen and at least take into considerations ALL of the facts before basing their hard lined opinions.

QUOTE]

I posted this: So this article is telling me that for the last 2+ years, this family has not been mourning their loss; but rather contemplating a way to sue the other folks for something that isn't their fault?! WTF is this world coming to?

I've heard that setiment a million times...the whole "well if you had so and so you would understand" crap. I don't have kids and don't need them to understand that this lawsuit was in the making since their child drowned. And no one can know the whole story, so your's and my opinions are just theories at best. I merely state that the parents are wrong for suing and they are to blame for their childs death, as sad as it is.

If there were more FACTS, maybe then when it happened there would've been more of it in the news. Since no one really knows what led up to the events (probably the parents not paying attention to a child and drowned) VIOLA!!! the child drowned.

My 2cents

Cjburn

04-04-2007, 06:16 PM

HA, nice try. Not gonna work.:thumbsup

I bring everything to a political level to highlight a point here. There is a large movement in this country to regulate, tax, and fine every part of your life. This is basically socialism, at it's roots. It's the idea that the government "knows better" what is good for you and how to live your life, since you're obviously not capable of successfully living independently (ahem...welfare society!). Nobody takes responsibility for their own actions anymore. Yes, it is very unfortunate that this happened, and yes the pool owners should feel really bad for what happened. But, seriously why should it be the pool owners responsibility for someone else's actions. Say I were to find a rock on the side of the road, throw it at a passing car, causing it to crash, should the state be sued for providing me the rock (the opportunity to misuse an item for bad), or should I be held accountable for my irresponsible actions? This type of thinking, where I am only partly responsible, but somehow not completely for throwing the rock and causing the accident, is where the collective societal thought has gone wrong in the last 30 or so years. Personal responsibility is the burden the individual must take when given the personal freedoms/liberties given in this society. I am not responsible for someone misusing my property (albeit doing something illegal to come into possession of my property, or onto it), however that person should be held account for their actions, and not vice versa. I was aware of what I was allowed and not allowed to do very young, my father made this very clear. I knew if I were to do something that I was not allowed to do, and hurt myself doing it, I was to be solely responsible for what I did. That is one of the first lessons you're supposed to do with your life. If you are not teaching this to your children (personal responsibility/accountability) you are failing as a parent and hurting your child.