Here you go treehuggers

[Korndogg]

Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
By Chris Demorro
Staff Writer









The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer. Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.
The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?
You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.
However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn’t be writing this article. It gets much worse.
Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.
The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.
“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.
All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?
Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet.
When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius’s arch nemesis.
Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.
The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.
So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.
One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.


http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188

[07ROUSHSTG3]

good find. i get a kick out of the huge hybrid craze going on. in about 10 years when all these old batteries are filling up landfills who are all the hippies going to blame? themselves..... hell no, it will be George Bush, the republicans, global warming, gas companies, cigarette makers, and all the other fall guys for these morons.

[fireguyrick]

good find. i get a kick out of the huge hybrid craze going on. in about 10 years when all these old batteries are filling up landfills who are all the hippies going to blame? themselves..... hell no, it will be George Bush, the republicans, global warming, gas companies, cigarette makers, and all the other fall guys for these morons.

You forgot Christians in that list...

You know that the left would see this article and cry bias. They would claim that Hummer bought the author and research.

Rick

[70challenger452]

yeah some kid in my gym class was trying to tell me that a prius doesn't produce any emmisions at all. I asked him if he was mentally disabled. Great article that is very satisfying

[SSDude]

Great post korn

[T-TYPE]

CAN SUCK THE BIG ONE:banana1: :banana

[Baddriver01]

Good find under the "editorial and commentary" section...c'mon guys it's ok to be biased and have your opinions but if you're claiming them as facts its best to do some real non-partisan/non-biased research in trusted, peer edited journals.

This is an unsupported editorial and nothing more. Are there problems with battery production and disposal? Yes, but the last time I checked your car has a lead battery too and probably doens't get even 45 mpg.

I drive a sports car also but there's no way I'd try to prove it is better for the environment than a Prius. Face it, I'm a hypocrite too but this article should be in the Onion.

[SSDude]

Interestingly the writer is pointing out that the claims made by the eco nazi's raving about the prius should be challenged. He made a great point of the Scion or Aveo being a much better choice for the economy minded driver.:thumbsup

[Baddriver01]

I agree that there are other options, the technology is getting better with the hybrids but there are other (cheaper) choices. The Aveo, while getting better gas mileage than most, is a crap car, rated one of the worst in CR. Of course, the SMART car - the supposed savior of clogged European streets everywhere is also a crap basket.

Every energy source has its downfall. I am a big e85 fan, its cheaper than gas, has better octane and is less pollutant. Of couse you need to create pollution to make it and it is less efficient than petrol. But...it's getting better and at 1.79 a gallon should be pretty appealing now.

Big oil doesnt want more efficient cars, it's a bad business plan and that's understandable from a profit standpoint. But not even trying to make more efficient cars is irresponsible for everyone. Gas is going to get more expensive, oil is going to become more scarce...how long is a question not answerable and debated by both sides. But in the end how long do we wait before we seriously start looking to something else.

I will be upset when I can't drive my TA or another gas powered sports car anymore because gas is gone or $60 a liter...but Lotus has a nice all electric Elise that's fast as hell. If only it weren't $100K.

[SSDude]

US refined ethanol is a big rip off. If it wasn't for the $0.54 tariff on imported ethanol and the $0.51 subsidy per gallon we would be getting all of our ethanol from Brazil as we couldn't compete with them.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/weekend/hottopic/?id=110009587
A acre of sugar cane yields twice as much ethanol than a acre of corn. To try and gain independence from foreign oil using corn we will ruin our economy and starve ourselves in the process.
We do need alternatives but we need smart ones.

[70challenger452]

I did a big report on it last year, ethonal really really is not the answer of any sort. I'm in support of mabye just having like a small fraction just to take some of the depense off but, that is a very small fraction. The reason why it's so cheap is because there arn't that many cars using it.

[88Nightmare]

I run Optima yellow top deep cycle batteries in everything I drive. Why? because even if you drain the battery all the way down, it doesnt lose any of its charging capability. With normal batteries, if they are drained down, they lose 50% of their charging capability. If it is drained down again, it loses another 50%, so it could potentially be down to 25%. Even if those numbers I just stated are high, we all know it isnt good to drain a car battery all the way down. Thats why I run the Optima yellow tops. I just change it from car to car if I get a new vehicle. They last way longer then any regular battery (at least 10 years).

[Korndogg]

I have a redtop and Im thinking of switching to a yellow top.

[88Nightmare]

I love my yellow top. I even bought it used for $100 bucks, it still works great.

This whole pollution thing is being over exaggerated by environmentalists. I know there are more cars on the road, but think about the cars from back in the day that had 0 emission controls on em? I think its all a scam. Just a conspiracy for people to get money, and for them to rape us of our hard earned money. bastards.

[Reverend Cooper]

the prius lifespan is not 100000 miles thats b.s. they warranty the whole hybrid system for 100000 miles. we have plenty that are well over 100k that we see in the shop. furthermore if that car can acc. the car is not designed for 8mph in 1 sec. it is designed to acc. slowly using the hv battery to cut down on emissions and inc. fuel mileage. also 80 percent of the batteries out there for any type of rechargeable items,phones,laptops what not are nickel lithium hydride based cant reallly blame toyota or any hybrid company for that. the other reality is that the hybrids are not a completely mass produced line yet causing the production cost to be higher at this time but not for long. the article also fails to show the fact that the emissions produced from the hummer over 300000 miles will be more that 3-5 times that of the prius. say what you will but facts are facts. i would like to see how many hummers even make it to 150k let alone 300k miles lolol thats a good one. just goes to show others have to hate not appreciate. a prius is not marketed as a tool to eleviate all earthly problems. it is produced to reduce emissions and a persons dependancy on fossil fuels. it was never designed or sold as the end all save all veh. they also fail to addres the fact that both are made with caustic materials, plastics,paints and rubber tires. oh yeah the epa ratings are rated for all vehicles the same,so if the prius is over exaggerated which i fell it is,that means the hummer is to take one out drive it and see what it really gets for fuel mileage, i like to see non biased and non influenced reports like this they are funny. not to mention if all hybrids are gonna destroy the world why is every manufacturer either making and researching to make one? did everyone know that gm is working with toyota for a hybrid model? oh well not my issue i drive gas guzzlers i just think the report is funny and lacks substantiation is all

[Reverend Cooper]

yeah some kid in my gym class was trying to tell me that a prius doesn't produce any emmisions at all. I asked him if he was mentally disabled. Great article that is very satisfying

its a super-ultra low vehicle emissions rated vehicle. he is not that far off. but yes there is emissions left from the vehicle. whn the battery is propelling it it has no emissions. on certain accel. or on the highway when the engine runs obviously it has emissions

[Reverend Cooper]

I agree that there are other options, the technology is getting better with the hybrids but there are other (cheaper) choices. The Aveo, while getting better gas mileage than most, is a crap car, rated one of the worst in CR. Of course, the SMART car - the supposed savior of clogged European streets everywhere is also a crap basket.

Every energy source has its downfall. I am a big e85 fan, its cheaper than gas, has better octane and is less pollutant. Of couse you need to create pollution to make it and it is less efficient than petrol. But...it's getting better and at 1.79 a gallon should be pretty appealing now.

Big oil doesnt want more efficient cars, it's a bad business plan and that's understandable from a profit standpoint. But not even trying to make more efficient cars is irresponsible for everyone. Gas is going to get more expensive, oil is going to become more scarce...how long is a question not answerable and debated by both sides. But in the end how long do we wait before we seriously start looking to something else.

I will be upset when I can't drive my TA or another gas powered sports car anymore because gas is gone or $60 a liter...but Lotus has a nice all electric Elise that's fast as hell. If only it weren't $100K.

toyota will have very soon a awd 400 hp sports car coming soon with hybrid technology

[Al]

BIASED AND INCOMPLETE!!!

The whole $3.25/mile/100,000miles thing is complete bull. That means the driver will spend $325,000 in 100,000 miles! How does that add up!?! Who has spent that much on a Prius!?!

If gas costs an average of $3.00/gal, and the prius only averages 45 mpg, the total cost for gas over 100,000 miles will be about $6,666.00. Add all maintenence and you will be around $8,000. Outside of the $2x,000 cost of the car, where does the addition $295,000 come from!?!

This guy must have written this article assuming that a replacement lightbulb would be loaded, by its self, on an 18wheeler and shipped from Mexico to Vermont.

That line about the Aveo is incomplete. The mileage rating of the aveo is by the old rating system while the prius is of the new system. At 80 mph, the aveo is at 30 or 31 mpg, so there is a %50 difference. Also, not everyone drives at 80 mph, so that is overkill on the EPA rating. The Prius is still very efficient.

How about that 80 mph line? The new highway test involves acceleration of 8 mph/second. That means any car should be able to do 0-80 in ten seconds. My Integra cannot do that and it will blow the doors off of an aveo.

Kilouea (sp) on the big island of Hawaii, releases about 10^6 times the sulfur as the plant in Canada does.

The energy to produce a hummer and a prius might be different, but the fuel used to ship a hummer to a dealership compensates for that. What is the actual kW/H rating to produce a Prius? If the cost is there, why don't they cost more at the dealership?


I cannot believe this was posted and some of you believe it!!!

[Baddriver01]

toyota will have very soon a awd 400 hp sports car coming soon with hybrid technology


:wooo let me know more!!!

[Baddriver01]

US refined ethanol is a big rip off. If it wasn't for the $0.54 tariff on imported ethanol and the $0.51 subsidy per gallon we would be getting all of our ethanol from Brazil as we couldn't compete with them.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/weekend/hottopic/?id=110009587
A acre of sugar cane yields twice as much ethanol than a acre of corn. To try and gain independence from foreign oil using corn we will ruin our economy and starve ourselves in the process.
We do need alternatives but we need smart ones.

Yes sugar is capable of producing more ethanol per unit but plants like switchgrass are also viable alternatives and are much more environmentally friendly. Also, the tarriffs are to help jumpstart the processes, help farmers and raise money. If we had the foresight to do what Brazil did we wouldn't be in the position we are. It's not the end all answer but it is a start.

I find the red top/yellow top idea interesting. I guess it works and is another small step to helping us become more efficient and environmentally responsible. Good idea guys!!!

Finally, the WSJ "opinion journal"? Does anyone have support that doesn't come from an obviously slanted source? I know it's out there, but....wow...

[awsomeears]

yeah some kid in my gym class was trying to tell me that a prius doesn't produce any emmisions at all. I asked him if he was mentally disabled. Great article that is very satisfying

hahah I would have kicked him in the nuts :rolf

Any engine out there that uses anytype of fuel will emmit exhaust. If there was a motor out that that would produce %0 exhaust I think it would be on the market. And the hippes would call it " GOD "

Then smoke some weed, and in fact that smoke from the weed will kill a baby bird in a nest because he had the munchies and decided to eat 1 grain of rice from a local weding

:eek:

[SSDude]

Here's another
http://www.earth-policy.org/Updates/2007/Update63.htm

The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) projects that distilleries will require only 60 million tons of corn from the 2008 harvest. But here at the Earth Policy Institute (EPI), we estimate that distilleries will need 139 million tons—more than twice as much. If the EPI estimate is at all close to the mark, the emerging competition between cars and people for grain will likely drive world grain prices to levels never seen before. The key questions are: How high will grain prices rise? When will the crunch come? And what will be the worldwide effect of rising food prices?

Switch grass has a better yield than corn but still not as good as sugar cane.
No matter what resource is used to produce ethanol it will divert cropland from food production or livestock feed and negatively affect food prices.

[Reverend Cooper]

hahah I would have kicked him in the nuts :rolf

Any engine out there that uses anytype of fuel will emmit exhaust. If there was a motor out that that would produce %0 exhaust I think it would be on the market. And the hippes would call it " GOD "

Then smoke some weed, and in fact that smoke from the weed will kill a baby bird in a nest because he had the munchies and decided to eat 1 grain of rice from a local weding

:eek:

there is its called hydrogen burning engines the by product is water......they will be here soon

[Korndogg]

I cannot believe this was posted and some of you believe it!!!

I just posted it for the hell of it so dont get all on my case about it.

[awsomeears]

there is its called hydrogen burning engines the by product is water......they will be here soon

I dont see them ever coming around in our life time, then again im not up to par with the lateset Tech stuff :thumbsup

[Reverend Cooper]

gm promises them in five years or less they are already around. its a matter of mass production and fuel stations

[Baddriver01]

Here's another
http://www.earth-policy.org/Updates/2007/Update63.htm

The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) projects that distilleries will require only 60 million tons of corn from the 2008 harvest. But here at the Earth Policy Institute (EPI), we estimate that distilleries will need 139 million tons—more than twice as much. If the EPI estimate is at all close to the mark, the emerging competition between cars and people for grain will likely drive world grain prices to levels never seen before. The key questions are: How high will grain prices rise? When will the crunch come? And what will be the worldwide effect of rising food prices?

Switch grass has a better yield than corn but still not as good as sugar cane.
No matter what resource is used to produce ethanol it will divert cropland from food production or livestock feed and negatively affect food prices.

Now this is a good argument from a reliable source. Yep, we will face problems as changes are made. Good support for your opinion!!

[Teufelhunden]

What about Bio-diesel?

Does biodiesel take more energy to make than it gives back?
No. Biodiesel actually has the highest “energy balance” of any transportation fuel. The
DOE/USDA lifecycle analysis shows for every unit of fossil energy it takes to make
biodiesel, 3.2 units of energy are gained. This takes into account the planting,
harvesting, fuel production and fuel transportation to the end user.

[Al]

Petroleum from Thermal Depolymerization!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization

Thermal depolymerization (TDP) is a process for the reduction of complex organic materials (usually waste products of various sorts, often known as biomass and plastic) into light crude oil. It mimics the natural geological processes thought to be involved in the production of fossil fuels. Under pressure and heat, long chain polymers of hydrogen, oxygen, and carbon decompose into short-chain petroleum hydrocarbons with a maximum length of around 18 carbons.

Sidenote: this method of making petroleum is a strong support for the creationist theory of how fossil fuels came to be post-deluge (the flood).