Suprised this hasn't been a thread yet.....

[67-400]

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=571398

Randy Moss comin to the Packers? What are your thoughts?? I think it may be difficult cuz all the bridges that were burned in the past, but if that is all looked past in the eyes of true packer fans & Moss cooperates, things could be good. If he gives up, like he did with the Raiders, its a waste of time & the Packers Budget! IMO

[Nix]

This has been talked about Mike, but this time it really seems like it is a true possability. I think it would be a good thing for the Packers and he will keep his mouth shut until they start winning.

I know that Favres agent is the same one that Moss uses from time to time so that may have some type of impact. Also this comming season Moss is scheduled to make a little over 9 million and in the following season he is suppose to make over 11 accroding to Oakland.:wow

I really don't see the Packers being able to afford that much. Seeing as how T.T. is a huge douchebag and won't spend money where and when it is necessary. But then aain they may be set for WR after Robinson comes back from jail time. What they really need is RB help. Just my 2 cents...

[Karps TA]

I'm for it. For 1 year what's it going to hurt to try and make a run. And with the brutal schedule the NFC north has this year they need more offensive firepower. Favre is a strong enough competitor that he won't shy away from getting in Moss's grill should he quit on a play.

Moss's issues have mostly been childish things. Maybe he can have a year like Rison did when he came to the Packers.

[70challenger452]

I hate randy moss with a passion and would have a really hard time rutting them on if they did get him. We don't really need him. We have two studs in Driver and Jennings, and just need a solid #3 WR. After that we have some decent depth with ferguson, Martin and that one guy who was a QB at ND. It's too bad that Koren Robinson is not gunna be there because I really think either he or ferguson would have made a solid #3 WR so the need for a WR would have been eliminated. He also fits the WCO very well. Also he would have been good for the below average kick return the packers have. He was a pro bowler in minnisota for kick returns.

[70challenger452]

This has been talked about Mike, but this time it really seems like it is a true possability. I think it would be a good thing for the Packers and he will keep his mouth shut until they start winning.

I know that Favres agent is the same one that Moss uses from time to time so that may have some type of impact. Also this comming season Moss is scheduled to make a little over 9 million and in the following season he is suppose to make over 11 accroding to Oakland.:wow

I really don't see the Packers being able to afford that much. Seeing as how T.T. is a huge douchebag and won't spend money where and when it is necessary. But then aain they may be set for WR after Robinson comes back from jail time. What they really need is RB help. Just my 2 cents...

being able to afford him is not the issue. The issue is weather or not the pacekrs are willing to give up what the raiders want for him. TT is smart and thats why he doesn't spend the money on free agents. Just look at Lavar Arrington, someone who was interested in the packers, TT decided against him, now he's not even on the giants, people were pissed they didn't resign marco rivera or mike flanagan. Both of them lost their starting jobs by the end of the season and are on the very tail end of their carears. I did a little research awhile back. I looked at the stelers super bowl roster. All but 4 starters on that team were drafted by the stelers. The 4 who wern't had been with the team for 5 years or more. Moral of the story, big name free agents arn't the answer.

[Karps TA]

I would take one of those carts with a wooden figure of a player on it before allow Fergie back on the team. The guy is always hurt, and can't catch a cold when he's healthy.

We need a big play deep threat. As much as Jennings looked good early, he looked terrible at the end of the season. Hopefully alot of that was injury, but he seemed to lose alot of focus.

They really need 2 tight ends badly, but since there is none out there, I'd take Moss since there is no other WR's in FA.

[GRM-REPR]

He won't come here. He is more interested in staying in Oakland because Art Shell got fired. If I remember right; isn't Ken Wizinhunt the new coach in Oakland from Pittsburgh?

Rumors are just that, rumors....

[GRM-REPR]

being able to afford him is not the issue. The issue is weather or not the pacekrs are willing to give up what the raiders want for him. TT is smart and thats why he doesn't spend the money on free agents. Just look at Lavar Arrington, someone who was interested in the packers, TT decided against him, now he's not even on the giants, people were pissed they didn't resign marco rivera or mike flanagan. Both of them lost their starting jobs by the end of the season and are on the very tail end of their carears. I did a little research awhile back. I looked at the stelers super bowl roster. All but 4 starters on that team were drafted by the stelers. The 4 who wern't had been with the team for 5 years or more. Moral of the story, big name free agents arn't the answer.

Both Marco Rivera and Mike Whale were worth keeping, any diehard football fanatic would know this. What most people don't realize is, Ted Thompson isn't a smart guy, he has made more stupid mistakes in 3 years than Mike Sherman made. You're telling me that picking up Koren Robinson was a good idea? No, it was a fart in the wind, Deion Branch could have been here but TT didnt want to bring any offensive weapons here. TT still quoted "I'm not going to acquire off season talent just because Brett Favre is coming back." That doesnt sound smart to me. And Mike Whale is nowhere near the tail end of his career, he is still considered "young" by NFL standards.

I hope no one takes offense to anything I've stated, I just eat, sleep, and shit football, it sucks when it's not on. :)

[70challenger452]

Both Marco Rivera and Mike Whale were worth keeping, any diehard football fanatic would know this. What most people don't realize is, Ted Thompson isn't a smart guy, he has made more stupid mistakes in 3 years than Mike Sherman made. You're telling me that picking up Koren Robinson was a good idea? No, it was a fart in the wind, Deion Branch could have been here but TT didnt want to bring any offensive weapons here. TT still quoted "I'm not going to acquire off season talent just because Brett Favre is coming back." That doesnt sound smart to me. And Mike Whale is nowhere near the tail end of his career, he is still considered "young" by NFL standards.

I hope no one takes offense to anything I've stated, I just eat, sleep, and shit football, it sucks when it's not on. :)

I never said anything about Whale. He's the one move that I question TT on. The thing is I don't think we had the cap room at the time. Mike sherman was the worst GM the packers ever had. Go back and look at how many players are still one the team that sherman drafted. Four years he was the one drafting. 5 players drafted by sherman are still on the team. TT is a way better drafter. Find me a better avaible kick returner than Koren Robeinson

[hrsp]

Randy Ftw

[GRM-REPR]

Find me a better avaible kick returner than Koren Robeinson

We had him, Antonio Chatman, plus we werent paying him more money than he was worth and besides, Koren had to serve a suspension which made him useful for 4 games.

I mentioned Whale because he is part of that bad trade, Flannagin was a china-doll and needed to go anyways.

TT needs to remember he supervises the Packers, he doesn't own them.

Should've never got rid of Holmgren....

[GRM-REPR]

Just look at Lavar Arrington, someone who was interested in the packers, TT decided against him, now he's not even on the giants.

Lavar Arrington is a hell of a player, but you cant play when you are hurt.

[GRM-REPR]

I hate randy moss with a passion and would have a really hard time rutting them on if they did get him. We don't really need him. We have two studs in Driver and Jennings, and just need a solid #3 WR. After that we have some decent depth with ferguson, Martin and that one guy who was a QB at ND. It's too bad that Koren Robinson is not gunna be there because I really think either he or ferguson would have made a solid #3 WR so the need for a WR would have been eliminated. He also fits the WCO very well. Also he would have been good for the below average kick return the packers have. He was a pro bowler in minnisota for kick returns.

You have some good points, however, Jennings has yet to prove he can play a full season without getting hurt. I belive he would've been rookie of the year offensivley had he not have injured himself.

I agree with you on Moss tho. WHY? Because he has proven only one thing to me since leaving Minnie, he is a quiter. I don't want to see an overpaid quiter on this team personaly.

Robert Ferguson is a bust and at best a late third stringer. Count how many times this turd has had the opportunity to become a bonafied #2 or #3 and totally blew it. Hopefully he will be long gone because he has had more than enough chances to have a good starting position, oh yea, he is another china-doll.

[Karps TA]

You have to look at how bad Oakland was before labelling him a complete quiter. They were so bad on the O-line that most time before a WR even ran his route the play was busted or the QB was laying on his back.

Heck I though Woodson was a terrible signing cause of his play in Oakland. But I'm beginning to think Oakland is just a terrible place to play. My god they brought Art Shell back last year to coach. That speaks volumes. That would be like Detroit bringing back Wayne Fontes.

[Nix]

I'm gonna leave it at this, Ted T is a waste of space and he sucks at his job. Koren Robinson won't even come back until week 6 I believe if he ever does. Now how can you justify picking up a player that you know almost 100% damn well will be spending time I jail in the near future?

I think its a shitty idea to go and pick someone up in that position. Its stupid and makes no sense. Way to go Ted, great decision making.:loser

Where did that get the Packers nowhere, becuse he knew damn well that he was going to have to pick up Korens replacment a few weeks later. It just makes no sense to me. I agree also that they should have never let Holmgren go if they could have helped it at that point in time.

Some good points are being made here but TT is not one of them.

[GRM-REPR]

Karp, I would almost agree with the Oakland sucking thing but the defense was one of the best in the NFL. They picked up their boot straps and tried like hell to be in every game.

Moss quit, pure and simple. Their O-line is putrid and when you have a youngin' like Walters trying to get used to the NFL and play q.b, shit will hit the fan. I'm also disappointed with Aaron Brooks, what a boob, he could'nt even inject life into that offense. So Moss quit, the D didnt...go figure?

[Karps TA]

We didn't let Holmgren go. He left to be coach and GM cause his ego was out of control at that point. He was a good coach, but he needed to be brought down a few pegs. Especially after his shitty coaching job in the Super Bowl against Denver.

Remember too that Holmgren turned out to be as bad a GM as Sherman was. Holmgren nearly lost his job because of it. He had to give up his GM powers in order to stay a coach there. So I'm not sure we wouldn't be in the same place right now.

[GRM-REPR]

We didn't let Holmgren go. He left to be coach and GM cause his ego was out of control at that point. He was a good coach, but he needed to be brought down a few pegs. Especially after his shitty coaching job in the Super Bowl against Denver.

Remember too that Holmgren turned out to be as bad a GM as Sherman was. Holmgren nearly lost his job because of it. He had to give up his GM powers in order to stay a coach there. So I'm not sure we wouldn't be in the same place right now.

Are you serious? Holmgren is easily one of the best NFL coaches ever, and learned from Bill Walsh, the creator of the WCO and Joe Montana's q.b coach!

We DID let Holmgren go by not giving him the G.M job. Prove to me that he is doing a bad job in Seattle as Head Coach and G.M. He left and we hired Ray Rhodes, who didnt even get a chance. Then let him go to get that yutz Mike Sherman.

Say what you will about him, he is a great coach, hell, I'd take Andy Reid up here too but we let him go to Philly.

[Nix]

Are you serious? Holmgren is easily one of the best NFL coaches ever, and learned from Bill Walsh, the creator of the WCO and Joe Montana's q.b coach!

We DID let Holmgren go by not giving him the G.M job. Prove to me that he is doing a bad job in Seattle as Head Coach and G.M. He left and we hired Ray Rhodes, who didnt even get a chance. Then let him go to get that yutz Mike Sherman.

Say what you will about him, he is a great coach, hell, I'd take Andy Reid up here too but we let him go to Philly.


Nicley put, you took the words right out of my mouth. :thumbsup

[Karps TA]

Holmgren in Seattle has been to how many playoff games since he left GB, despite having a team picked nearly every year to go. Despite playing in a weak conference with 2 crappy teams most of the last 10 years.

Holmgrens record in Seattle was

9-7
6-10
9-7
7-9
10-6
9-7
13-3
9-7
He's 3 and 5 in playoff games in Seattle.



I couldn't stand Sherman but he did better then that.

He was a very good coach here. But he got a huge head and you can ask anyone associated with the Packers. He would have got the GM job here in time. Wolf only had 2 more years in him. But Holmgren didn't want to wait so he bolted. Basically before the Super Bowl. Cause it was obvious he was thinking of his next job during the game.

He lost his GM duties after his 4th year cause the team was going nowhere and he drafted poorly.

Besides it's a stupid arguement. He's not the coach here and won't be.

As for TT the jury is still out. Last year he did a pretty decent job putting together a team. They won 4 more games then I expected and actually got some good play out of some draft picks. They wiffed on Safety again, might as well kept Roman at less money the Manuel. Essentially the same player.

[GRM-REPR]

Are you saying Holmgren drafted poorly in Seattle or in G.B?

[Karps TA]

In Seattle he didn't do the drafts in Green Bay. That was Wolfs job.

Who then drafted poorly at the end. Jamal Reynolds still makes me shudder when I think of that pick. Packers biggest draft bust ever.

[GRM-REPR]

Holmgren was smart enough to pull M.H out of G.B and mold him in Seattle, pretty damn good decision in my book. Seattle has let Holmgren and their fans down time after time on the field. That team should have won a s.b by now.

Thanks for the heads up on drafting in G.B, my mistake.

[GRM-REPR]

In Seattle he didn't do the drafts in Green Bay. That was Wolfs job.

Who then drafted poorly at the end. Jamal Reynolds still makes me shudder when I think of that pick. Packers biggest draft bust ever.

Tony Mandrich?

[Karps TA]

Jamal Reynolds was a bigger bust then Tony. Tony may have sucked, but he atleast played. He even went ot Indy for a couple years and started.

We traded a Pro Bowl QB, Hasselback, and a draft pick to move up several spots in the draft to take Jamal Reynolds who played in like 6 games, and was out of the league in 3 years.

People can point to us not drafting Sanders that year we took Tony, but Sanders would not have been the player he was, playing on grass in GB his whole career. His ability to cut and move would not have worked up there once the weather turned. Which was proven by the amount of times GB was able to shut him down on grass.

[GRM-REPR]

I often wonder about the stars that have come thru the NFL over its inception. Could they have been as good if they were on another team or not. I do belive the systems have much to do with it also. Tom Brady for example, do you think he would be "as good" as he is behind a shitty O-line, crappy coach, and system?

[Karps TA]

I think some guys like a Brady would have excelled anywhere. And Sanders would have still been a damn good back, but his effectiveness at the end of the season would have been lessened due to the field being terrible. Guys like Levens, Green and Benett excelled because they are mostly up the field runners. They weren't guys who danced around alot, like Barry did.

It will be interesting to see the difference the new Field Turf will make on the level of play in GB this season. There shouldn't be any worries about footing issues.

[70challenger452]

Holgrem wanted out of Green Bay. All the players knew it and MArk Chumra said in an interview that Homgren's mind was other places during the second super bowl and he didn't really care about what went on before the second one

[GRM-REPR]

Holgrem wanted out of Green Bay. All the players knew it and MArk Chumra said in an interview that Homgren's mind was other places during the second super bowl and he didn't really care about what went on before the second one

LOL, of course he wanted out, they weren't going to give him what he wanted.

[67-400]

LOL, of course he wanted out, they weren't going to give him what he wanted.

x 2

[70challenger452]

other than the Koren Robinson which is arguable, what "bad desions" has Ted made? Marquan Manuel is one other one but nobody saw that coming. TT is a good GM and a really good drafer in my eyes and I like the direction he is taking with the team and getting rid of all the players with character concerns. Carrol, Hunt, Walker...

[Karps TA]

Holgrem wanted out of Green Bay. All the players knew it and MArk Chumra said in an interview that Homgren's mind was other places during the second super bowl and he didn't really care about what went on before the second one


I do think Chumura had a problem with Holmgren. I'm assuming it's cause Mike didn't give him a shot at his daughters while they were still underage.

[70challenger452]

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/packer/img/news/feb07/x5pack109.jpg
anybody who wants this guy to become a packer discusts me

[70challenger452]

I do think Chumura had a problem with Holmgren. I'm assuming it's cause Mike didn't give him a shot at his daughters while they were still underage.

hahah- +1 for that, I actually past his house on my way home from a buddies house today. He lives at the Legend golf course in Wales

[Karps TA]

other than the Koren Robinson which is arguable, what "bad desions" has Ted made? Marquan Manuel is one other one but nobody saw that coming. TT is a good GM and a really good drafer in my eyes and I like the direction he is taking with the team and getting rid of all the players with character concerns. Carrol, Hunt, Walker...


Manuel was something that you could see coming. He looked exactly like Mark Roman except more expensive. All you had to do was check a Seahawks message board and they were doing cartwheels we took him.

And his first draft in GB wasn't very good. Rodgers hasn't shown even the slightest ability to be a starting QB. Collins is Mediocre at best. Underwood's spends most his time hurt. Poppinga is probably the best of the bunch. Not really 1 impact player.

But his draft made his FA moves that first year look like a hall of fame class. We went into that year knowing we needed 2 guards and he did nothing but pick up a couple jabronies that couldn't make any other team that ended up being cut or completely ineffective. He could have atleast resigned Wahle. Yes they didn't have the cap room that year, but they ended up 30 mil under the cap the following year and could have structured a contract to take advantage of that.

[70challenger452]

Your going to tell me that Rodgers was the wrong pick?????? Collins is going to be a stud. Underwood had one injury. He would have been starting by the end of the year if he would have not gotten injured

[Karps TA]

Yes 150% Rodgers was a terrible pick. He was the 2nd best QB in a terrible draft for QBs. Had he came out last year he would have been a 4th round pick. Guys that slide like that, slide for a reason. He didn't fill a need, and didn't make the team better. Craig Nall showed to be a better QB then Rodgers did.

Collins will be an adequate player, but not a stud. He'll be a steady player, but never make a pro bowl, or be a difference maker.

Underwood jury is out cause he can't get on the field. But again, no production for 2 years. And it's not like he had a bunch of pro bowlers ahead of him.

The draft reminds me of a Sherman draft. A whole lot of "potential" picks and no actual players. You need to be drafting alot better then that if you want to be better.

Last years draft was miles better.

[Karps TA]

One rumour being reported is that the Packers have offered Aaron Rodgers to Oakland for Moss. I'm thinking they need to sweeten that pot and throw in Bubba, Martin, Fergie and Manual as well.

[GRM-REPR]

other than the Koren Robinson which is arguable, what "bad desions" has Ted made? Marquan Manuel is one other one but nobody saw that coming. TT is a good GM and a really good drafer in my eyes and I like the direction he is taking with the team and getting rid of all the players with character concerns. Carrol, Hunt, Walker...

Someone for the sake of this thread (i'm enjoying talking football here) agree with me that hiring Moss would similar to hiring Rison. If TT were to hire Moss, it would be very similar. Don't get me wrong, Moss is still one of the most dangerous w.r's in all the NFL, but if he were to come (which i highly doubt) I'd like to see his talent here but would it be worth it?

[Russ Jerome]

Love him or hate him, I would put every penny I have on him
in a jump ball game....when he is willing!

That being said I am a longtime Vikqueen fan, you keep throwing
him the ball like he wants you to and the Packers will DOMINATE
the NFC. Look at Moss' early games with Chris Carter, there is just
nobody who can play him man on man, but like all those spoiled
millionairs ya gotta kiss there @$$'.

[Karps TA]

Someone for the sake of this thread (i'm enjoying talking football here) agree with me that hiring Moss would similar to hiring Rison. If TT were to hire Moss, it would be very similar. Don't get me wrong, Moss is still one of the most dangerous w.r's in all the NFL, but if he were to come (which i highly doubt) I'd like to see his talent here but would it be worth it?


My hopes is that it would turn out like Rison. But if it doesn't I don't see it as that huge of a gamble. For 1 year I'd like to see them make a run for it. Then Favre retires, we cut some dead weight, concentrate on building a kickass D that can keep us in games while we try to find a QB.

Moss and Jennings on the wings with Driver playing the slot and the mismatches would be crazy. No team could risk bringing their safeties up to play the run. Which would open that up immensely as well. We get a TE in the draft that can actually catch a football, and the offense would be potentially unstoppable.

[animal]

Moss and Jennings on the wings with Driver playing the slot and the mismatches would be crazy. No team could risk bringing their safeties up to play the run.

Finally someone who understands this without me having to explain it!

:wow

[GRM-REPR]

Moss and Jennings on the wings with Driver playing the slot and the mismatches would be crazy. No team could risk bringing their safeties up to play the run. Which would open that up immensely as well. We get a TE in the draft that can actually catch a football, and the offense would be potentially unstoppable.

Yes I agree but hopefully Jennings will stay healthy. I know he was a rookie and most of them don't last a full NFL season and injuries happen to the strongest player. D.G from N.E is going to be a free agent, he is the type of T.E we need here, God knows B.F can be let go, no other T.E on G.B is steppipng up. We need another Chamura type T.E (without the underage sex antics).

[Karps TA]

Graham is a blocking TE. He's not much of a receiving threat.

[GRM-REPR]

Graham is a blocking TE. He's not much of a receiving threat.

So is T.G on K.C, he seems to get the job done quite well. The only reason D.G is up for sale is because B.W took over when Graham got hurt in the 05' season, I think he would fit here pretty well. We haven't got much of any threat as far as T.E's go in G.B. Pretty pathetic.....

[Karps TA]

Actually I wouldn't mind Wiggens from MN. He's getting released. He's kinda tubby, but sure seems like all he does is make big catches. He burned us until Childress took over and made their offense non existent.

Gonzalez is a complete TE. Well atleast was. He's gotten old and is not quite the guy he used to be. Watson was someone I wanted us to draft pretty badly back in 04, but Sherman really wanted a 5'6" project of a CB who had maturity problems instead.... That was nearly a brick thru the TV moment...