Toyota quality...

[Crawlin]

http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/toyota-recalling-533000-sequoias-tundras/20070119075809990001?ncid=***00010000000001

hahaha, when you start making as many cars as they have been like the big three have been doing for YEARS you start to have problems. bet anyone $10,000 you barely hear a PEEP out of any of the big media networks like you do with a Gm/Ford/Dcx

[Cjburn]

Go read any article, pretty much written by any source, Toyota is the car god. They have done no wrong, no 5SFE ever sludged, no 2MZ ever had a blown head gasket, no 1ZFE ever had oil consumption problems. There are a ton of problems from interior quality, from Lexus on down, but you will NEVER read or hear about it from a automotive media outlet, let alone the major cooperate news outlets.

[88Nightmare]

damn, point proven. god forbid someone sneezes at GM the wrong way, or someone in the factory applies an exterior chevrolet symbol crooked, the news is all over them like joe reichard on V6 mustangs

[Reverend Cooper]

first off the sludge deal is bull shit get the facts straight. if you dont change to oil it sludges. headgaskets yes toyota stood behind them for 8 years get that out of a quad four recall. the corolla motors with ring problems toyota has taken care of most under factoy warranty and i just did one last week at 90k that they paid for half of the repairs. lets see where ford ,chevy or dodge have done that. then bring any of ford,chevy or dodges recall books from last year and lets compare them. guranteed toyota's is a third the size the others are. and at least they recall them,unlike gm with there gas tanks. never seen sludge or a headgasket burn someone alive.
lets face it all manufacturer's have their issues.....but by in far toyota/lexus has the least of the big four.

[Crawlin]

wasn't talking about the AMOUNT...

just the PRESS about the recalls....

[Reverend Cooper]

the press doesnt give them crap because they fix it right away or recall it. they dont fight nhtsa like most manufacturer's do

[Al]

Ball Joints becoming loose!?! What a load of bull$hit!

I have driven cars with terrible ball joints, but I could still stay between the lings while zipping down a winding road. The people who crashed their cars were probably on the phone while drinking java or something else.

[BAD LS1]

Ball joints hahah sounds like a dodge truck now. I know a guy that works ina toyota parts dept, he had said that every model eats evap charcoal canisters consistently. They are just like every other manufacturer they have issues.

[Lash]

I think the sludge deal has to do with a lot of Toyota owners thinking their Toyota's are maintenance free....as in you don't even have to change the oil...lol. Toyota has had such a good rep for such a long time that I think people have gotten the wrong idea about their reliability. They still require maintenance. Do you really think grandpa and grandma are changing the oil regularly?

[Crawlin]

the press doesnt give them crap because they fix it right away or recall it. they dont fight nhtsa like most manufacturer's do


the funny thing, is our toyota service department is BUSIER than our Ford/Chevy stores

[Cjburn]

The 3.0 liter V5's in Camry's and Lexus's also sludged, along with the 5S's., and they STILL sludged with regular oil changes and a long service history of regular maintenances.I'm not saying Toyota doesn't fix them, never did, I"m saying there are regular problems with their cars that isn't written about. The last 2 cars I financed were Toyota's. Ask any competent Toyota mechanic who has worked on them for more than the last 5 years, and they will agree that their overall quality in their vehicles have dropped in the last 10 years.

[Lash]

and they STILL sludged with regular oil changes

Sorry...but I dont believe that...lol. :)

[BOSS LX]

:thumbsup

[wikked]

the funny thing, is our toyota service department is BUSIER than our Ford/Chevy stores

because Toyota is outselling Ford/Chevy 100000000000/1 :goof

[Flight_740]

I will never have anything bad to say about Toyota/Lexus. Great car. Sludge was due to not changing the oil.

[TransAm12sec]

I always think of fight club when I hear about recalls.

Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
Business woman on plane: Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?
Narrator: You wouldn't believe.
Business woman on plane: Which car company do you work for?
Narrator: A major one.

Best line of the movie

"Do not... **** with us."

[Reverend Cooper]

The 3.0 liter V5's in Camry's and Lexus's also sludged, along with the 5S's., and they STILL sludged with regular oil changes and a long service history of regular maintenances.I'm not saying Toyota doesn't fix them, never did, I"m saying there are regular problems with their cars that isn't written about. The last 2 cars I financed were Toyota's. Ask any competent Toyota mechanic who has worked on them for more than the last 5 years, and they will agree that their overall quality in their vehicles have dropped in the last 10 years.


that sludge is bullshit we have them apart many times and they do not sludge on there own. it is a result of lack of maintenance period read the cust. support policy. or stop by and i will show you. if by regular you mean every 8-12000 miles find a car that doesnt. as for chris's comment. toyota owners are more loyal than any other manufacturer as far a service retention. hmmmm may be the toyota service guys are nicer to deal with than the for or chevy service guys. now theres something to think about

[Reverend Cooper]

oh yeah and andy by the way about 80% of the toyotas produced are made in the states

[BOSS LX]

oh yeah and andy by the way about 80% of the toyotas produced are made in the states

Money still goes over seas.

[Reverend Cooper]

yeah but not as much as it was when it was 90% made in japan and only 10% here. and by the way the american workers in the plants here dont go home to japan on the weekends and spend their money there dood

[BOSS LX]

yeah but not as much as it was when it was 90% made in japan and only 10% here. and by the way the american workers in the plants here dont go home to japan on the weekends and spend their money there dood

I know.

[floaters]

hey lexus has made the #1 reliable car 12 years in a row, thats pretty impressive. not because im a supra and gs400 owner, i owned many cars from 427ls1 camaros, ttypes, stangs, trans ams, 300c etc, i think these 2 cars out rank them all as far as performance styling and rareness, yes they are cars so there will be problems but i think they do a great job with theyre cars as far as styling interior to exterior where it seems gm cars have been lacking for years imo.

[LIL EVO]

Toyotas for life d00d

[88Nightmare]

eh, im just not a fan of the toyota styling. gm has been doing a lot to try to keep their #1 spot. From what I read, GM understands that toyota will probably dethrone them as number 1, but instead of GM struggeling to make ends meet, they might actually try concentrating on what they got goin for em right now and improve what they have instead of introducing new models every year that are flawed with countless problems. GM has turned the saturn name around, from the Aura to their new Outlook crossover that is based on the GMC version and the more luxurious Buick version. Their Sky is phenomenal. I keep seeing more and more vehicles on the road out of their new truck line. I had the opportunity to drive an LTZ Z71 silverado and man was that thing nice. I also drove a Z71 Avalanche and the interiors are so refined on them. The fit and finish is great. Problem is, this new truck line from GM may be coming out onto the market a little late, Toyotas new truck line hitting dealerships any month now are supposed to be kickass. Time will tell.

[Cjburn]

Alright, I have 3 friends who are Toyota techs at Wilde, two of which been there at least 10 years. Safro Lexus is a customer of mine, both of which are places that have seen sludge motors on (4cyl, 6 cyl) motors with all the recommended maintenance done. Toyota's service is outstanding, only eclipsed by Lexus's. I've seen them warranty a sludged 3.0 V6 with 214,000 miles on it. When it comes to Lexus, whether it is the customers fault or not, they'll get just about anything replaced for free. However, there are problems that are not read by, or heard about by the regular consumer. Like when the IS's check engine lights last year for a run rich code during extremely cold temps. Several Safro customers were in multiple times, and the updated flash wasn't fixing the cel. Lexus service departments were just kissing ass until Toyota figured out a way to fix it. I have no doubt they're a great car company, but I GUARANTEE you will see a LOT more service problems with their vehicles the higher their production volumes get, it is inevitible that their quality will suffer with increased production runs. Their material quality has dropped recently, and so will overall quality (which has been noted by several major publications). Like I said, it has been seen in the last 10 years, a consistent drop in overall product quality.

[floaters]

eh, im just not a fan of the toyota styling. gm has been doing a lot to try to keep their #1 spot. From what I read, GM understands that toyota will probably dethrone them as number 1, but instead of GM struggeling to make ends meet, they might actually try concentrating on what they got goin for em right now and improve what they have instead of introducing new models every year that are flawed with countless problems. GM has turned the saturn name around, from the Aura to their new Outlook crossover that is based on the GMC version and the more luxurious Buick version. Their Sky is phenomenal. I keep seeing more and more vehicles on the road out of their new truck line. I had the opportunity to drive an LTZ Z71 silverado and man was that thing nice. I also drove a Z71 Avalanche and the interiors are so refined on them. The fit and finish is great. Problem is, this new truck line from GM may be coming out onto the market a little late, Toyotas new truck line hitting dealerships any month now are supposed to be kickass. Time will tell.

and gm is turning to honda for the redline engines in the saturn

[88Nightmare]

edited...... see below

[88Nightmare]

also, see below

[88Nightmare]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Ecotec_engine#Ecotec

according to that:

The Ecotec name was adopted in 2000 for the new generation of Family II engines. The name was already used for the Opel Family 1 and Family 0 ranges. GM intends this new Ecotec to become its global 4-cylinder.

The Ecotec Family II is a modern chain-driven DOHC 4-valve design with an aluminum block and head (L850), designed for displacements from 1.8 to 2.4 L. It was developed by an international team of engineers and technicians from Opel's International Technical Development Center in Rüsselsheim, Germany, GM Powertrain in Pontiac, Michigan, and Saab in Trollhättan, Sweden. Much of the development work on this project was carried out by Lotus Engineering, Hethel, United Kingdom. The engine uses aluminum pistons and cast iron cylinder liners. Vibration is reduced with twin balance shafts.

The current Ecotec line is manufactured in Tonawanda, New York, Kaiserslautern, Germany, and (for Saturn) in Spring Hill, Tennessee.



hmmmm. Guess Honda owns Lotus too now eh?

[Reverend Cooper]

Alright, I have 3 friends who are Toyota techs at Wilde, two of which been there at least 10 years. Safro Lexus is a customer of mine, both of which are places that have seen sludge motors on (4cyl, 6 cyl) motors with all the recommended maintenance done. Toyota's service is outstanding, only eclipsed by Lexus's. I've seen them warranty a sludged 3.0 V6 with 214,000 miles on it. When it comes to Lexus, whether it is the customers fault or not, they'll get just about anything replaced for free. However, there are problems that are not read by, or heard about by the regular consumer. Like when the IS's check engine lights last year for a run rich code during extremely cold temps. Several Safro customers were in multiple times, and the updated flash wasn't fixing the cel. Lexus service departments were just kissing ass until Toyota figured out a way to fix it. I have no doubt they're a great car company, but I GUARANTEE you will see a LOT more service problems with their vehicles the higher their production volumes get, it is inevitible that their quality will suffer with increased production runs. Their material quality has dropped recently, and so will overall quality (which has been noted by several major publications). Like I said, it has been seen in the last 10 years, a consistent drop in overall product quality.
i have worked for toyota in the service dept. for 15 years. sludge is bullshit unless its not maintained period. i wanna see the maint. records for the sludge cars they have done and i bet any dollar they have not been maintained even close to properly. i have a gelling leter sent out from the class action lawsuit in y hand for my wifes car. and that is exactly what it states. also the lawyers made toyota honor a once a year oil change as enough maint. to honor the program. wtf tell me any car on the road that needs one oil change a year (no mileage restrictions ) shiat i put on over 35k a year if i only change my oil once the ****er would need work too., so pardon me if i call bullshit on your story. your getting second hand info. come on down some time and i will show you and it will change your mind. we have had countless toyotas in with factory oil filters on them (the gasket on the filter is a diff. color than dealer repl) at 30000 plus miles and they still run and do not knock but the oil light may flciker. tell me how many fords,dodges,chevy's or other ,manufacturer will make it that long

[Lash]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Ecotec_engine#Ecotec

according to that:

The Ecotec name was adopted in 2000 for the new generation of Family II engines. The name was already used for the Opel Family 1 and Family 0 ranges. GM intends this new Ecotec to become its global 4-cylinder.

The Ecotec Family II is a modern chain-driven DOHC 4-valve design with an aluminum block and head (L850), designed for displacements from 1.8 to 2.4 L. It was developed by an international team of engineers and technicians from Opel's International Technical Development Center in Rüsselsheim, Germany, GM Powertrain in Pontiac, Michigan, and Saab in Trollhättan, Sweden. Much of the development work on this project was carried out by Lotus Engineering, Hethel, United Kingdom. The engine uses aluminum pistons and cast iron cylinder liners. Vibration is reduced with twin balance shafts.

The current Ecotec line is manufactured in Tonawanda, New York, Kaiserslautern, Germany, and (for Saturn) in Spring Hill, Tennessee.



hmmmm. Guess Honda owns Lotus too now eh?

I think he was referring to the V6 engines in the Saturn Vue's. They are the same HONDA motor that comes in the Odysseys.

[floaters]

thanks lash.
im not knocking anyone i like cars in general, i love my mkiv supra like none other, it is imo one of the nicest cars out there, like i said before cars will have problems no matter what, and if they didnt car companies wouldnt be in business im just down for toyota/lexus and yea the sludge problem they may have had, at least theyre taking care of it.

[Cjburn]

Coop then you can go tell the techs I've talk to at Safro and Wilde that they're full of shit. If you want to go to one upsmanship here, my closest friend's dad has owned his own shop since the mid 70's working exclusively on Toyota's, my friend has been turning wrenches on them since he was 10, so he's been working on them for 18. I've never once said their cars were bad, just that their dominating superiority isn't as great as EVERYONE in the automotive literature business would have you think. It's just not.

[Lash]

They may not be any better than domestic manufacturers...but they sure aren't any worse.

[Reverend Cooper]

Coop then you can go tell the techs I've talk to at Safro and Wilde that they're full of shit. If you want to go to one upsmanship here, my closest friend's dad has owned his own shop since the mid 70's working exclusively on Toyota's, my friend has been turning wrenches on them since he was 10, so he's been working on them for 18. I've never once said their cars were bad, just that their dominating superiority isn't as great as EVERYONE in the automotive literature business would have you think. It's just not.

bring 'em on. make sure they bring the documentation of proper maint. also. they wont be able to if they question it have them call me. if it was found to be a issue it would have been long ago the v-6 and 4cyl motor has been the same or similar to cars from early 1990's. other than minor changes and balance shaft additions. they would have had issues earlier. according to items ive seen if it was found to be a issue when the sludge causes engine failure this would be a safety issue and nhtsa would have been involved thus a recall. this is no recall it is a csp. cust. support policy. to help people that have not maintained there vehicles. primarily cause because of leasing vehicles was huge in the mid 90's, we know how lease people generally treat cars,just like rentals they are beat to shit. then a cust. would buy the car used and get stuck with a non maintained sludged pos. check out the last 5 years in toyotas lease history and see how hard they havent been pushing it.
not saying the techs arent good techs at wilde or safro never said that. they just may not be getting the whole story from the cust. or the serv. person taking care of the cust.

[Reverend Cooper]

Coop then you can go tell the techs I've talk to at Safro and Wilde that they're full of shit. If you want to go to one upsmanship here, my closest friend's dad has owned his own shop since the mid 70's working exclusively on Toyota's, my friend has been turning wrenches on them since he was 10, so he's been working on them for 18. I've never once said their cars were bad, just that their dominating superiority isn't as great as EVERYONE in the automotive literature business would have you think. It's just not.

its got nothing to do with one upsmanship at all you seem to be getting upset because i know wtf i'm talking about and your using hear say. ask your friend how many sludge toyotas he has seen at his independant shop that have been properly maintained. i have one of these so called sludge motors in my wifes car and guess what its spotless inside. we had to put valve cover gaskets on it. it has over 90k on it and honestly there have been plenty of times it has been over on its oil change intervals. and yes its a 1999 v-6 that deff. falls under the policy., so it its a issue with the motors it should happen on every single one. that is under the csp. sludge only occurs due to lack of oil changing period and thats on any car out there. not even sticking up for toyota anymore now. tanke any car out there and dont change the oil often enough and see what happens. ask judgethis with his o5 goat. no oil in it didnt have time to sludge im sure at 15k miles .

here is even a link for a famous oil company. i just saw a commercial by them also. read it
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=82915464&contentId=7018508

[88Nightmare]

and gm is turning to honda for the redline engines in the saturn


From what he said, he was not referring to the Vue or Outlook. He said "redline engines in the saturn". There are 2 saturns right now where the redline package also comes with a different engine. That would be the Ion Redline and the Sky Redline. Both of those engines are the 2.0 ecotec engine, which is designed in United Kingdom by Lotus. The Ion Redline is supercharged, which is engine code LSJ, and the Sky redline is turbocharged (I do not know that engine code offhand). The Vue redline is simply a bodykit/ground effects and does not change performance or the engine at all. As far as honda engines being in the Vue or the Outlook, I have to plea ignorance on that one, as I know nothing about them.

[Cjburn]

Coop, if it was every motor Toyota would not have sent several of it's engineers from Japan to Wilde Toyota about 5 years ago to figure out what was going on. It was random, with no real defined patterns of failures. From what every tech I've talked to about the problem, most cars that did sludge (I do agree with you on this) were from cars without regular oil changes, however there were incidents where regular maintenance was performed and sludging still occurred.

[Reverend Cooper]

Coop, if it was every motor Toyota would not have sent several of it's engineers from Japan to Wilde Toyota about 5 years ago to figure out what was going on. It was random, with no real defined patterns of failures. From what every tech I've talked to about the problem, most cars that did sludge (I do agree with you on this) were from cars without regular oil changes, however there were incidents where regular maintenance was performed and sludging still occurred.

but i wil then say thats bull shit. it simply does not just happen here or there it weither happens on all or none. yeah i wanna see a japanese engineer at wilde. they may have had a tech rep from toyota there. he is from chicago his name is harry. did you read the article from castrol. think about it toyota has no vested interest in them. simply put if you change your oil and filter at recc. intervals it wont happen. the people with the reg maint. did they come in with reciepts that were from handwritten repair orders. like forged just to get it covered. think about it.

[Al]

The only recent engine with major sludge issues is the 1.8t from Audi.


[url]hmmmm. Guess Honda owns Lotus too now eh?

The Elise is Toyota powered.

[Reverend Cooper]

^thank you al

[Car Guy]

Does it make a difference if you are using 'dino' oil or synthetic, and is there a motor oil flush out there that helps or takes care of the sludge...?

[88Nightmare]

The Elise is Toyota powered.


whats that got to do with the sky redline being honda powered? :durr :thumbsup

[floaters]

whats that got to do with the sky redline being honda powered? :durr :thumbsup

i was just stating gm is turning elsewhere for some of their engines

[88Nightmare]

yeah, some of them. how many other car companies turn elsewhere for their engines? GM's duramax is made by Isuzu, and yes while GM does own Isuzu, GM does not help build the duramax, they are just a shareholder of isuzu. The powerstroke is made by International/Navistar, which ford no longer owns. Dodge turns to cummins for their engines, and while Ford was a shareholder of cummins back in the early 90's, Cummins is currently an independant company. But this all boils down to.... so what? Many other automakers turn to other companies for engines. Does this mean anything to me? Nope. Does this bother me? Absolutely not.

[floaters]

yeah, some of them. how many other car companies turn elsewhere for their engines? GM's duramax is made by Isuzu, and yes while GM does own Isuzu, GM does not help build the duramax, they are just a shareholder of isuzu. The powerstroke is made by International/Navistar, which ford no longer owns. Dodge turns to cummins for their engines, and while Ford was a shareholder of cummins back in the early 90's, Cummins is currently an independant company. But this all boils down to.... so what? Many other automakers turn to other companies for engines. Does this mean anything to me? Nope. Does this bother me? Absolutely not.

i hope it doesnt bother you

[88Nightmare]

why would it? as long as it has four effin wheels and a seat, goes down the road in a straight line, starts every morning and occasionally stops, why would I care? lol

[Al]

whats that got to do with the sky redline being honda powered? :durr :thumbsup

I thought that had a VVT-i Toyota engine in it, just like the Pontiac Solstice and Vibe (G6 too?).


Does it make a difference if you are using 'dino' oil or synthetic, and is there a motor oil flush out there that helps or takes care of the sludge...?

Some engines just suck for sludge. One of the biggest issues with audi A4 engines is that they sludge up easily due to overdue service. I have gone with standard oil for the most part and have no signs of sludge. One rumor suggests that the hot-spot in the turbo is where the sludge begins and later clogs up the block. My A4 did come equiped with an oil cooler which runs off the coolant system. After passing through the cooler, the oil line to the turbo branches off a few inches down.

There was a report by the SAE that stated that some of the lubricating qualities of synthetic oil were no different than the regular stuff. The difference comes when the oil breaks down. Syn oil takes longer to break down, and when it does, it has fewer contaminants to mess up the innards of your engine. I'd reccomend it if you have a turbo.

[Cjburn]

Vibe has the 1zzfe that was found in the Matrix, Corolla, Celica GT, also known to have soft oil rings. Toyota replaced quite a few of those motors. Solstice/Sky uses the Ecotec 4 cylinder.