Overpriced work?!?

[Al]

I think I am getting royally screwed on the exhaust on my integra race car.

I had a guy in Cedarburg weld together a 4-2-1 header with a resonator, a 45-degree bend, and a side exhaust in front of the right-rear tire. The resonator can be removed and replaced with a muffler due to tube-in-tube connections at each end. The whole thing is held on my regular exhaust mounts.

The material used is stainless steel, but is $2500 the right price?

The bill
Labor 15hrs @ $55/hr $825
Stainless Muffler $285
Other supplies $1390

I received a few quotes from other local shops which were half of this. I chose this individual because he said he would beat the price of the others, but never put it in writing. I kept mentioning keeping the price around $600-700, over the past three months that he has had the car.

[Flicktitty]

that sucks that is WAY to much i would think!

[theavenger333]

oh my lord. A: why would you bother with Stainless steel on a race car. B: a stainless steel street exhaust isn't that much. you have a short amount of piping due to a side exit, and the resonator is cheap. only thing i don't know much about is the tube in tube connections. if this is a track car anyway, why bother with the interchangables. either way, you're getting bent over

[Al]

Tube-in-tube is when one tube fits in another. It is an alternative to flanges with gaskets.

I wanted stainless because the guy said that it would cost about the same in the end when compared to mild steel + ceramic coating.

I also wanted the interchangeable muffler so when 2007 rolls around, I could go with hobbyist plates and drive the thing around town without getting in trouble. Stainless steel means I would not have to worry about the thing rusting together over the winter.

[Firefighter Z]

Holy hell man, Your ass is gonna feel sore, better get Prep H cause you might get hemroids from this.

[Yooformula]

did you stretch out BEFORE you grabbed your ankles? wouldnt want the hams to cramp up.

[mrz28M6]

lmao@josh&yosama

[Al]

Holy hell man, Your ass is gonna feel sore, better get Prep H cause you might get hemroids from this.

How about some input? What do you think about the price?

My brother has been finishing up on a series of welding courses. He insists that the work took far too long to complete (hours). Even for stainless steel, which he said takes a long time to work with, the time is excessive.

[Al]

I didn't pay for it yet.

Other people quoted me around $1200-1300 total.

The only reasonable explanation why I think it would cost this much is if he ported the head and installed my brake controller while he was at it.

[Yooformula]

you may not have paid for it yet but you are going to! He could refuse to release your car until you pay the bill.

[Firefighter Z]

^^^ Agree with Yoo, if your car got worked on by him, he's gonna make you pay whatever price he wants...

[Al]

True.

I've just been so used to talking to him about keeping the price low. This is a big suprize to me.

I'm wondering what Bee would have charged for something like this?

Does the price even seem rational?

[Bart H]

Does he work out of his house? I knew a guy out there who did and if it's him it's worth it.

[Korndogg]

did you sign anything or ok the price over the phone?? if you did. your screwed.

[Flicktitty]

did you sign anything or ok the price over the phone?? if you did. your screwed.
he said it was ok'd by voice :(

[PureSound15]

what in the hell are the "other materials"?

"I'll believe that when me shit turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbet"

[Al]

Does he work out of his house? I knew a guy out there who did and if it's him it's worth it.

Yes. He lives west of Cedarburg just south of hwy T (western ave). He has lots of British cars scattered around this driveway and he drives an old Mini.


did you sign anything or ok the price over the phone?? if you did. your screwed.

Nothing over the phone and nothing signed. He mentioned a few times, once in front of my brother, that he could keep the price of the header cheaper than that of a DC Sports stainless steel header. For that, I kept saying "keep it below $400-500." I expected the exhaust to be a simple pipe with a bend and two slip-connections for the muffler, which would cost less than the header itself.

[Al]

he said it was ok'd by voice :(

An exact price was never quoted. I just provided a limit.

[PureSound15]

Sit down with him and ask him to break it down piece by piece. Then ask him if he's comfortable with you telling everyone you know about his price gouging.

[UnderPSI]

Um Yea, That is a lot for "other parts" or what ever. I guess other parts included some :alcoholic

[jbiscuit]

you could have had King do it for that price!!!!!

[Al]

Um Yea, That is a lot for "other parts" or what ever. I guess other parts included some :alcoholic

The "other parts" is the steel used. I wrote down that the second muffler was $285.

I'll post the materials list when I get it.

[PureSound15]

It still seems rediculous.

The only way that I could spend $2500 on a exhaust system, would be if it provided happy endings. :rolf

[88Nightmare]

I can get 1.8 roller rockers, ceramic coated headers, cold air intake, a diablo programmer, and header back exhaust for $2,500 bucks for my silverado, so spending $2,500 bucks on a short, side exhaust exit system for an acura seems obscene.

[GRAMPS SS]

call METZ (BRIAN ) ASK HIM .HE DOES THAT TYPE OF WORK ALL THE TIME, HE WILL TELL YA IF YOU GOT BENT OR NOT....I TRUST METZ OR SKEETER
DON'T HAVE SKEETERS NUMBER BUT YOU CAN FIND IT ON THE HOME PAGE BY CLICKING ON 57CHEVY..OR LOOK UP L.A. WELDING 107TH ST MILWAUKEE
BRIANS NUMBER IS 262-251-3535

[Nix]

Man if I were you I would tell them to take all the shit off and go get bent. I cant believe in anyway that an exhaust system could cost that amount of money. That is just insane, for that price it must be coated in diamonds and other priceless rocks the size of quarters.

So you already have the car back and paid for this to be done and its all final?

[juicedimpss]

The bill
Labor 15hrs @ $55/hr $825
Stainless Muffler $285
Other supplies $1390


the time doesnt seem to be to far out from what it couldtake to custom fit a header,but the materials are on the heavy side.

[Bart H]

It isn't the same guy I knew out there, he was in downtown Cedarburg.

[Teufelhunden]

Just for clarity...is this guy working out of his house? Is the new exhaust on your car already?

Go get your car back with your Dad. Tell that guy to get bent. (pun intended)

Try to pay him the amount you both agreed on first obviously. Get a receipt or pay with a check.

[scottie K]

dude you should of hit one of the local race car builders up

like shane windsor or pat from rod and competion

i think either one prob could of helped you out

a set of one off headers for our mustang was only 1000 bucks

[pOrk]

That is not a bad price for custom made headers, I would ask to see some sort of receipt's for the material cost because that does seem high

[Slow Joe]

Sounds expensive, but I'm not an expert by any means...

[TransAm12sec]

I had my exhaust installed by Car Maid in Ceaderburg. My dad has done work with Dennis for 20+ years. I think it cost around 300 to install, with a minor modification to the y-pipe.

[Al]

The Bill

Quantity Description Rate Amount
1 O2 Sensor Ring 15.40 15.40
7 Straight Tubing, 304, 2.25 OD 14.641 102.49
1 Tubing, 90 deg bend 304SS 2.25 od 63.624 63.624 U bend 304ss 1 5/8 od 42.47 169.88
1 ultra lightweight muffler 235.059 235.06
2 J-bend 304ss 1 7/8 od 53.295 106.59
1 Shipping 213.63 213.63
2 Merge collector 1 5/8 to 1 7/8 129.80 259.60
1 Merge collector 1 7/8 to 2 1/4 143.00 143.00
1 Shipping 32.44 32.44
1 SS Rectangular Bar 64.196 64.20
1 Shipping 6.16 6.16
2 SS Rod 3/8 6.039 12.08
1 SS Exhaust Band Clamp 10.142 10.142
1 O2 Sensor 38.698 38.70
15 Hours shop labor 65.00 975.00

TAX 5.6% 122.97

TOTAL 2570.96

The bill is in PDF form.

[Al]

This is for ONE header!

[TransAm12sec]

The bill
Labor 15hrs @ $55/hr $825


Was that just a guess?

What did he say when you told him "This is five times over the price of the limit I gave you". That is assuming $500 included everything.

[Al]

Was that just a guess?

That is what I thought I heard him say last night.

I asked right away if the labor cost was more than the parts. He said "yes," then I saw this. He also said 285 for the muffler.

But the thing that gets to me the most is that I kept saying "keep the price down" and comments related to keeping the price below that of a DC Sports header (for the header, not exhaust), which he originally commented about last summer. How the hell do we go from something costing $500 to this? I know the exhaust is additional, but my brother was there to hear me talk to him about the price and the limits of price when we dropped the car off.

What should I do? I simply cannot afford this.

Should I just tell him to fk himself?
Then what would happen to my car? IDK
Would this end up in court? IDK
Should I take it to court?

He knew the limits for cost and he exceeded it without letting me know!!!

[Yooformula]

you are going to have to prove it Al. But then again he doesnt have anything signed by you either so I have nothing of value to add.......so, um.......sorry grab some more vasoline and stretch just a bit more.

[mrz28M6]

or get some keys made and go get that car. haha

[Al]

Are some of you really serious when you say "tell him to fk it?"

Can I do that: Tell him to take the parts off and give me my car back because it cost waaaaaaaaaaaay more than what he originally said.

[88Nightmare]

Are some of you really serious when you say "tell him to fk it?"

Can I do that: Tell him to take the parts off and give me my car back because it cost waaaaaaaaaaaay more than what he originally said.

only one way to find out. otherwise, you may need a lawyer. this in court would be a case of he said/she said. nothing in writing by either parties involved, just a witness on your behalf. tough case. I dont have a clue who would win. But see what happens if you tell him to take the stuff of and give you your car back. This guys work seems to be about as much of a rip off as a hooker charging for a handjob.

[PureSound15]

Wouldn't hold up in court. Technically by not agreeing to a set price, or according to my contracts book, your terms weren't definate enough for an outside person to comprehend. Saying that you want it "less than price A" , although agreed upon, isn't a set price.

I can talk to my law professor about it if you'd like and if I get a chance to, I intern for him so it's not a problem.

Definate terms would be the 3rd element of a contract, if you are going to research it further.

[Al]

Please do so.

I was thinking about this being one of those "time to get a lawyer" situations.

The total is just too much. Not as in how much I am willing to pay, but how much I can spend. If I start saving now, at the rate I earn money (net income and after other unavoidable expenses), It will take me till about march to pay if off.

[Al]

I just looked at jegs for the prices of comparable parts. For the some of the SS parts, they charge about HALF as much.

Does anyone here question if I am getting gouged on the materials prices?

[pOrk]

I just looked at jegs for the prices of comparable parts. For the some of the SS parts, they charge about HALF as much.

Does anyone here question if I am getting gouged on the materials prices?

My concern lies in the cost of materials that you listed, the labor isnt the question since that is pretty reasonable. I would ask for a layout of prices that cover all the materials used

[jbiscuit]

I think you need to call your lawyer. You obviously aren't satisfied with the price compared to work performed. This is going to get ugly

[juicedimpss]

i think the shipping prices are another big concern..holy crap,did he "same day air" that shit?

[Al]

you could have had King do it for that price!!!!!

I went to Beeyond earlier today and Bee thinks that King would not charge as much.


i think the shipping prices are another big concern..holy crap,did he "same day air" that shit?

I was thinking the same thing.


Here is an update:
I got some advice from the police and they said that there are a bunch of things I can do.

The biggest pointers they gave me are that he is using a rented facility to run a business which is strictly for non-commercial/industrial use. Second thing is that his business is not registered, so he might not be paying taxes.

They also mentioned something about notification being required for any price which exceeds the original estimate by 10%. Even without a written estimate, this rule still needs to be followed. Getting other estimates for the same work is also important so that there is something for me to base the excess off of.

[PureSound15]

They also mentioned something about notification being required for any price which exceeds the original estimate by 10%. Even without a written estimate, this rule still needs to be followed. Getting other estimates for the same work is also important so that there is something for me to base the excess off of.

Exactly what I just came on here to tell you what I found in my book today. Just go to him with all those facts, try to settle it in person first." It's not so much of a threat as it is an offer" is the way I would put it.

Good luck.

[Al]

I contacted the Wisconsin Division of Financial Institutions and found that Stonefield Vintage Garage was a registered buisiness as of May, 2005. This takes away from the illegitimate business question.

I have since been trying to get ahold of him, but to no avail. This is alright for now because I have an exam to study for.

[Teufelhunden]

Have you even talked to him about the price since he gave you the invoice/bill?

Talk to him first, be VERY firm about getting the price lowered. Keep reminding him of your earlier discussions with him on price. He's not re-inventing the wheel here. He didn't even have route the exhaust pipe to the back bumper...


I chose this individual because he said he would beat the price of the others

Do not burn any bridges by mentioning that you might hire a lawyer to help with this. That won't help you at all...

[Al]

I'm going to try to get ahold of him tomorrow and talk things over. Right now, I'm comparing the materials prices of major suppliers to what the invoice contains.


Do not burn any bridges by mentioning that you might hire a lawyer to help with this. That won't help you at all...

I have been thinking of that as the final solution for this situation.

Do you think I should keep quiet about the possibility of a lawyer for the near future?

I could proabably get another quote or two before I see him tomorrow, but I'm thinking that I should try to get a better grasp of his end of the scenario first (listen to what he has to say).

I'm going to get a few real quotes tomorrow.

[Al]

Another update:

I met the guy a little after noon today. I brought a friend along who is a bit of a car-guy who is also at arguing any point (didn't really need his assisstance in the end).

First off...
He did NOT do the interchangeable muffler thing. So $2570 gets me a header and only a 6-foot exhaust with a very small muffler. No chassis work was needed because he managed to find factory mounts which were suitable for the side exit.

For his supplies, he used Burns Stainless, a company out in California. He said they cost more because their bends are better; less inner flatening. I mentioned that I did not consider the ever-so-slight increase in power from a slightly better bend to be worth the doubling cost.

For the time charged, I asked if there was a competence issue with his welding. He said he took his time to do it well, but the welds were not the stack-of-nickels I would expect that amount of time to result in.

There were lots of other things we talked about, particularily the "call me about price" aspect. I could not stress it enough that if I had known that the price would be that high, I would have never had the work done in the first place. I also questioned why his work was so expensive compared to all others.

In the end, he dropped the price down $900 and said that he would be losing money if it went any lower. I told him that I had lost money in the past because I did not conduct business in a proper manner and that the same rules should apply to him.

At $1700, I still think the price is waaaay too high. I would be satisfied below $1000, but could live with $1200.

The thing I asked more than anything else was "why did you not call me about the price?" followed by "why is this so expensive compared to everyone else?"