Border patrol agents get prison time for shooting smuggler!?!?!???

[d0nut]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-agents20oct20,0,798296.story



Nothing like getting jail time for doing your job.....

[Yooformula]

I didnt realize illegal immigrants had the same rights as us....funny how they can also sue for $5million??? What a joke.

[TransAm12sec]

Important Quotes-

“Ramos and Compean said they had scuffled with Aldrete-Davila and he appeared to be holding a gun. Aldrete-Davila said he was unarmed and had held up his hands in surrender; he said he fled only after Compean tried to beat him with the end of his shotgun.”

“Federal prosecutors say the facts — including evidence that Ramos and Compean did not report the Feb. 17, 2005, shooting near Fabens, Texas, to their superiors — clearly warranted a tough prosecution. They say illegal-immigration opponents have spread lies and half-truths in a calculated campaign to turn the agents into martyrs.”

"Federal agents do not get to shoot unarmed people as they are running away in the back and then lie about it and cover it up," said Johnny Sutton, U.S. attorney for Texas' Western District. "It is very important for border agents to follow the laws they enforce, and in those rare instances where they do not do that, it is our job to bring them to justice."


There's more involved then a guard simply shooting a smuggler.

__________________________________________________ ____________________

Ok, there are lots of variables with this case, so here's my very unorganized version. **I am assuming that the guards shot at the driver before finding the marijuana.

First off, it is important to note the fact that there was marijuana in the van does not apply to this lawsuit. I’ll go into why later.

One uncertainty is whether the Aldrete-Davila(the driver) had a firearm or not. He says he didn’t, while the guards said he appeared to have one. Had they reported that the man appeared to have a gun, and that they shot at him, it would not be as much of an uncertainty.

An issue in the case is whether or not you cannot shoot a person without probable cause. I could imagine he found the marijuana after he shot the victim, because then he would have had no problem reporting it.

One thing to note is even though he didn't report it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Kind of like the quote from Training day "It's not what you know it's what you can prove."

The fact that Ramos and Compean did not report the incident gives them no leeway. It does not mention reasons for them not reporting it. I’m wondering what they told their supervisors, because they had a van filled with marijuana. Did they just tell him the driver ran away?

Had the guards known he had a gun and saw the marijuana before firing; he would have not been taken to court. (This is also assuming he reported everything: A man ran away after appearing to have a gun, firing at that man)


Now, the fact that Aldrete-Davila was attempting to transport marijuana into the U.S. is a completely different story, and a completely different lawsuit. It’s not taken into account with the current lawsuit, because it says nothing about Ramos and Compean knowing about the marijuana before shooting him.

Yes, it is a good thing that the guards stopped 700 lbs of marijuana from coming into the U.S., but he shot at Aldrete-Davila before knowing that.

Do I think the guards deserve 10 years in jail? Not at all. That’s because I am taking into account that Aldrete-Davila was transporting a large sum of marijuana. The lawsuit does not take that into account, because it was not known before he shot him.

__________________________________________________ ________________________________________________

Here’s an example that may relate to this case. I am walking down the street with a bag of marijuana, and I see a cop. I start to run, and the cop tackles me, giving me a brain damage. The cop has not found marijuana on me until after I am down. The bag was in my pocket the entire time, invisible to the cop. He has no probable cause to come after me. Therefore, the fact that I had marijuana would not be evidence in court.

Had I thrown the bag out before/while I was running and the cop spotted it, then the marijuana could be used as evidence.

[0TransAm0]

eh i think they should just shootem all.. the peeps comeing across the border illegaly that is. good target practice for the army. it would sure stop most of them from trying to come over illegaly.

[TransAm12sec]

Wow, after basing my argument on that one article, I looked up another one and found the starting paragraph to be this.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51417

"When Border Patrol Agent Ignacio Ramos pulled the trigger last February, all he knew was that his partner was lying on the ground behind him – bloodied from a struggle with a fleeing suspect – shots had been fired and now, it appeared, the drug smuggler he was pursuing had turned toward him with what looked to be a gun in his hand. "

[junk mx6 no rly]

i love hearing white ppl ***** about mexis jumping the border when most of them come to work the jobs that most ppl here wouldnt even do such as(fast food,hard manual labor in 100degree plus weather)yes im mexican but i dont do the following

*put my last name on the back window of my car
*chrome fender lips on my cars
*nike symbol or anything such as that
*and im not 5'5" lol
*put 315/35/13 rims and tires on a cavy or chevy 1500
*big or dramadic window rain guard thingys that pretty much cover the whole window.

yeah thats pretty much it and i love how the us pays for medicare for them jumping the border when they get hurt but they wouldnt even help my friends dad that was dying.:fire

[TransAm12sec]

There are some movements for the president to pardon Ramos and Compean.

http://www.capwiz.com/jbs/issues/alert/?alertid=9005021&type=CO

Another thing I find intersting about this story is Agents cannot pursue fleeing suspects. So, what can they do? Arrest someone only if they're not moving? There was so much media over how much more effort is going to protecting the borders, but they aren't even allowed to purse a suspect if he's running?

"Further, Kanof argued, it was a violation of Border Patrol policy for agents to pursue fleeing suspects.
(http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51417)

[Crawlin]

i love hearing white ppl ***** about mexis jumping the border when most of them come to work the jobs that most ppl here wouldnt even do such as(fast food,hard manual labor in 100degree plus weather)yes im mexican but i dont do the following

*put my last name on the back window of my car
*chrome fender lips on my cars
*nike symbol or anything such as that
*and im not 5'5" lol
*put 315/35/13 rims and tires on a cavy or chevy 1500
*big or dramadic window rain guard thingys that pretty much cover the whole window.

yeah thats pretty much it and i love how the us pays for medicare for them jumping the border when they get hurt but they wouldnt even help my friends dad that was dying.:fire


you wanna stereotype? here how about this? WHITE people complain because while you do those jobs, you are expecting healthcare FOR FREE while we work just as hard(while not hard labor) and end up having to PAY for it through taxes. They jump the fence, and expect everything provided for them. WHITE people complain because all this bullshit takes up taxpayers money for the courts, for the lawsuits, and all this stupid ass shit. I love how I have to pay extra on my car insurance... SPECIAL coverage even, to protect myself against an UNDER insured or UN insured person(mostly mexican). How about them stereotypes? LASTLY, learn ******* ENGLISH! There is NO reason when I make a phone call to pay a bill, or ask a question, that I should be FIRST asked if i want in in english or spanish. Same thing goes for ATM's. If they can't read english, how are they supposed to read "no passing lane" or "stop" or any of that shit? OH, cause they can recognize a big ass sign color. **** THAT. If jumping the fence is so easy, how hard is it to become a citizen? Oh and then take all the money they made and bring it BACK to mexico to feed their economy and not ours. REAL nice.

[junk mx6 no rly]

you wanna stereotype? here how about this? WHITE people complain because while you do those jobs, you are expecting healthcare FOR FREE while we work just as hard(while not hard labor) and end up having to PAY for it through taxes. They jump the fence, and expect everything provided for them. WHITE people complain because all this bullshit takes up taxpayers money for the courts, for the lawsuits, and all this stupid ass shit. I love how I have to pay extra on my car insurance... SPECIAL coverage even, to protect myself against an UNDER insured or UN insured person(mostly mexican). How about them stereotypes? LASTLY, learn ******* ENGLISH! There is NO reason when I make a phone call to pay a bill, or ask a question, that I should be FIRST asked if i want in in english or spanish. Same thing goes for ATM's. If they can't read english, how are they supposed to read "no passing lane" or "stop" or any of that shit? OH, cause they can recognize a big ass sign color. **** THAT. If jumping the fence is so easy, how hard is it to become a citizen? Oh and then take all the money they made and bring it BACK to mexico to feed their economy and not ours. REAL nice.

yeah and what about when germans,italians,all other types of ppl were coming across the seas noone says shit about that how they brought certain types of disease's over but w/e keep being racist.its obvious you are and how many ppl do you know that come across the border and want things handed to them get a life i dont care that my english typeing skills *is not* perfect srry masser.how hard is it to become a citizen why dont you go to china and say you want to become a citizen and see how easy it is.ppl liek to keep things they dont like donate money to the 3rd worl countrys but how many ppl would actually let them live among them the only difference is they live across the ocean other wise theyed be here to beside mexicans you ******* pieace of shit.

[Korndogg]

go back to mexico.

[88Nightmare]

I agree with both parties here. there are some illegal hispanic immigrants who come here, work hard, dont try to hussle the government out of benefits and collect a weekly paycheck and dont complain about tax deductions and social security deductions and just keep quiet and keep to themselves. I don't have a problem with them. But there are those who cross the border illegally, kill people, transport drugs, demand rights when they arent even citizens, and try to say they didn't do anything wrong. to hell with them.

as far as the guards go, they were simply stopping an illegal immigrant from crossing the border. I don't care if he had pot, I don't care if he had a gun, I don't care if he was going to blow himself up, he was crossing illegally, and therefore the guards should be able to carry out their job and stop him from crossing. If yelling "hey stop, don't cross the border" doesn't stop this guy, what are they supposed to do?

[Yooformula]

i love hearing white ppl ***** about mexis jumping the border when most of them come to work the jobs that most ppl here wouldnt even do such as(fast food,hard manual labor in 100degree plus weather)yes im mexican but i dont do the following

what does this have to do with the case that was presented? Ok, that aside...are you defending illegal border jumpers or what? So what if they clean up the poo on the road in 125 degree heat, if you come in illegally then tuff sh!t!

Back to "Transam" , if you begin to run from a cop on sight, then you just gave him probable cause.

[Yooformula]

yeah and what about when germans,italians,all other types of ppl were coming across the seas noone says shit about that how they brought certain types of disease's over but w/e keep being racist.

too bad the majority of illegals come over from mexico, so by default they bring more diseases with them and poverty. NEXT?

If they make it here and we dont catch em, thats our fault but if they are here and contributing, then I say let em stay BUT until they get in, I say hunt them down at the border like packrats!

[junk mx6 no rly]

too bad the majority of illegals come over from mexico, so by default they bring more diseases with them and poverty. NEXT?

If they make it here and we dont catch em, thats our fault but if they are here and contributing, then I say let em stay BUT until they get in, I say hunt them down at the border like packrats!


majority ok so just cuz one sick bastard come with aids and every other std you can think of means all of them have it too?i know a couple white guys that do coke and x does that mean every white guy does that too?hey and guess what all the comercials for stds show mostly white ppl that mean only they have stds ?ugh no so yeah all the ppl ive meet that cross the border coem here to work and for alot less then what you think why do you think you see most of them at factorys that say high school degree required i seriously dont think they have one.but you know whatthey get a job if they work for less money an hour.w/e think what you want if you wanna say just cuz one race is know for selling drugs and say so the rest of that race does the same then youve got probelms im not racist at all.my sisters bf is black my gf is white.but think what you want.i just hope you keep acting that way when your around the lower class race that you think your so much better than.

[Korndogg]

so these people that you speak of that crossed the border....are they here legally?? if so, then I dont give a shit what the fvck they do. But if anyone is here illegally then they need to get the fvck out. I dont care what race they are.

[junk mx6 no rly]

so these people that you speak of that crossed the border....are they here legally?? if so, then I dont give a shit what the fvck they do. But if anyone is here illegally then they need to get the fvck out. I dont care what race they are.


heres an idea go to milwaukee and every person you think isnt legally here tell them to leave ight and see what happens.:thumbsup

[Yooformula]

majority ok so just cuz one sick bastard come with aids and every other std you can think of means all of them have it too?i know a couple white guys that do coke and x does that mean every white guy does that too?hey and guess what all the comercials for stds show mostly white ppl that mean o............................
You said that other immigrants bring diseases with them and that was a basis for your argument, I merely pointed out that illegal mexicans bring more in the country because there are so many of them. Illegals are illegals.

I wouldnt say that I am racists btw, but I have no patience for morons, sadly they happen to be white, black, asian, mexican and arab.

[Al]

How long till the fence is done?

percieved in a microbiological perspective, the boarder is a gateway (how about that pun) for the spread of infectious diseases. Mexico is a literal cess-pool for pathogens. Keep em out and watch health care costs drop.

[Korndogg]

heres an idea go to milwaukee and every person you think isnt legally here tell them to leave ight and see what happens.:thumbsup


I actually have said it to a couple before but they didnt know what the fvck I was talking about because they COULDNT SPEAK ENGLISH.

[Yooformula]

I actually have said it to a couple before but they didnt know what the fvck I was talking about because they COULDNT SPEAK ENGLISH.
:rolf +50

[Korndogg]

Edited by: myself and Yoo....


cause uh....yeah just cause lol

[73Dustr]

i love hearing white ppl ***** about mexis jumping the border when most of them come to work the jobs that most ppl here wouldnt even do such as(fast food,hard manual labor in 100degree plus weather)yes im mexican but i dont do the following

*put my last name on the back window of my car
*chrome fender lips on my cars
*nike symbol or anything such as that
*and im not 5'5" lol
*put 315/35/13 rims and tires on a cavy or chevy 1500
*big or dramadic window rain guard thingys that pretty much cover the whole window.

yeah thats pretty much it and i love how the us pays for medicare for them jumping the border when they get hurt but they wouldnt even help my friends dad that was dying.:fire


Even if they do work the jobs others won't, illegal immigrants are illegal immigrants. Hell, I don't care if some Canadians come here illegally. The fact of the matter is that they are illegal. It's not just about Mexican immigrants, it's about any immigrant that comes into the country illegally. I've heard of illegal Chinese immigrants coming into the country also. Same thing: ILLEGAL. Bottom line is that it doesn't matter what country they came from, they are here illegally. I don't have a problem with families coming here from Europe, Asia, Africa, Southern America, Mexico, etc. and becoming legal citizens. That's what makes the United States what it is. As long as they become legal citizens like every other American, who cares what race, religion, color, or ethnicity they are. My ancestors came here from Europe and got their citizenship to become legal American citizens, why can't everyone else? Illegal immigrants are cheating all the American citizens whose ancestors or themselves went by the books and became legal citizens of this country!

[UnderPSI]

— were sentenced to 11 years and 12 years, respectively, for offenses that included violating the smuggler's civil rights.


?????Violating their civil rights???? :chair:

[88Nightmare]

how does an illegal immigrant have civil rights if they arent supposed to be here in the first place?

[saleenclone]

i had someone ask me if i was a immigrant one time .

english, spanish who gives a f-ck i dont care how a atm is
or how they ask anything just be open minded to thing

dont everyone get there panties in a bind

[88Nightmare]

I think Jorge (saleenclone) put it well.

in other countries, many things are in their own language as well as english. english is still one of the most common languages in the world.