BCM Drag guys are really stepping up!!!

[nismodave]

In liu of Scottie Ks new best time, it got me thinking how the BCM regulars/locals are stepping it up.

Scottie, Mark(SmokedU), Andy(Bosslx), Jake(TopStreet), Sam+Tina(HRSEPLA), Bobby(427 S/c)(Who Im sure will run very quick when the new pistons are in)...........And all the other guys climbing the TOP 50 list.

Im not a "DRAG" guy........I prefer the twisties, but I see the hard work time and $, you guys running the 1/4 are doing. And really starting to give those girls from south of the boarder a run for thier $.

Congrats to all!!!!!:haveabeer

Im really looking forward to KOTH!!!!!!:headbang

**One other thought......I know SSM is a team effort, but I dont believe they are Major shop sponsered, along with the others I mentioned.

Thats Damn Impressive, when you see some of the other cars running similar with some good amount of $ behind them.



Im really looking forward to KOTH!!!!!!:headbang

[scottie K]

thanks dave

[Lash]

Yeah...seriously. There are some quick fkin cars on here.

[sidewayzbimmer]

I agree congrats guys!

[theavenger333]

there's a few Ellis One cars that might make some noise at the end of the season still...

[97z2801ss]

congrats fellas!

[FourEyedFord]

Thanks Dave! The pistons are supposed to arrive at the machine shop this Wednesday, so the motor should be done by next weekend.

She should deffinately run a good number. Especially with the CORRECT pistons in the motor! ;)

[Flicktitty]

yeah, congrats to all of you, when is KOTH again?

[SouthSide1]

thanks dave

[Adamsy87]

Thanks Dave! The pistons are supposed to arrive at the machine shop this Wednesday, so the motor should be done by next weekend.

She should deffinately run a good number. Especially with the CORRECT pistons in the motor! ;)

Who woulda thought that you actually need to put blower pistons in a blower car?!?! :rolf Who built your motor??? :stare

[MIKESPACECAR]

Who woulda thought that you actually need to put blower pistons in a blower car?!?! :rolf Who built your motor??? :stare
Much respect for all those cars:headbang Good luck to all of you

[HRSEPLA]

Thanks Dave!

Bobby, who gets the credit for your engine internals purchasing and installation?
I sure hope it wasnt a professional engine builder!:fire

[DoubleAron]

Bobby, who gets the credit for your engine internals purchasing and installation?
I sure hope it wasnt a professional engine builder!:fire


:wooo :wow Oh you did it now, you done peed some folks off.
Come on it's the greatest most timely shop around....:rolf
















...for a carb'd BBC.

[HRSEPLA]

Or did you mean Pontiac?:)

[sloLs1]

i <3 single digit STREET DRIVEN cars!!!:headbang






+1 for all the fast a$$, loud a$$ hell, street machines to originate from S.E. Wisconsin!!!:headbang :headbang :headbang

[FourEyedFord]

Who built my motor? Hmmm, seems to have slipped my mind. I used to have a sticker on the back of my car from them, but I still can't remember. I do know who is building it now though, and he has built plenty of small block blower motors like mine. :headbang

[HRSEPLA]

^^^^^^^^

[BOSS LX]

Woa wait a minute, Bobs car is broke?

Now you gun dun it.:rolf

[FourEyedFord]

C&S Built Bobby's motor
^^^^^^^^

Now that is some funny sh!t right there! :rolf

[BOSS LX]

there's a few Ellis One cars that might make some noise at the end of the season still...

Oh Oh, the annual LS1 comment. LOL:rolf

Chill, I said LOL!:thumbsup

[FourEyedFord]

Who woulda thought that you actually need to put blower pistons in a blower car?!?! :rolf Who built your motor??? :stare

If my memory serves me correctly, I believe you got similar treatment. Whoever thought off the shelf pistons would be a good candidate for a blower car is sorely mistaken!!

[HRSEPLA]

Then its OK!

[Adamsy87]

^^^^^^^^

oh I had plenty to say about that but I think I'll keep it to myself...:fire

On a lighter note, anyone notice that 5 out of those six are Mustangs? :banana1:

[Adamsy87]

If my memory serves me correctly, I believe you got similar treatment. Whoever thought off the shelf pistons would be a good candidate for a blower car is sorely mistaken!!


Yea about that....:flipoff2:

You post to d@mn fast I can't even respond! lol

[DoubleAron]

Or did you mean Pontiac?:)

Same thing

[Slow Joe]

I wish I had a fast Mustang... :rolf I feel left out having the slow car... Congrats Guys!

[DoubleAron]

If my memory serves me correctly, I believe you got similar treatment. Whoever thought off the shelf pistons would be a good candidate for a blower car is sorely mistaken!!

Off the shelf pistons and they still take that long?:alcoholic :party:

[Crawlin]

Oh Oh, the annual LS1 comment. LOL:rolf

Chill, I said LOL!:thumbsup


hey now... i ran a SOMEWHAT decent number this past friday.

got much more to improve on :)

[FourEyedFord]

Off the shelf pistons and they still take that long?:alcoholic :party:

Don't even get me started on that one too........

[DoubleAron]

Don't even get me started on that one too........

Not only you but how many others?



What are you waiting for to host those vids?

[FourEyedFord]

Not only you but how many others?



What are you waiting for to host those vids?

I am doing it right now, I seriously just got done with work a little while ago.

GAAAAAWWWWWWD! :goof

[BOSS LX]

hey now... i ran a SOMEWHAT decent number this past friday.

got much more to improve on :)

I said LOL!:rolf

I am looking forward to seeing most of you guys run!

[MT98Z]

I am looking forward to seeing most of you guys run![/QUOTE]


Yea it should look like one of Brads firework displays coming out from under my hood when I go.:rolf :rolf

[HRSEPLA]

I said LOL!:rolf

I am looking forward to seeing most of you guys run! And I will polish up my rear view so I can!

[Crawlin]

haha, i'll have him at the 60ft..... and that's about it.

how about a chitown comment?

"pull the belt off that big s/c and i'll show you what's up"

[HRSEPLA]

"pull the belt off that big s/c and i'll show you what's up"

Fine, but it might overheat, be hard to steer, and not charge very well! Beoch

[Crawlin]

like i said...

chitown moment :) i've read that probably 20 times on there, haha

and yes i do get the reference for your car :) hahha

[nismodave]

http://www.revsoft.org/phpBB2/images/smiles/threadjacked.gif http://www.revsoft.org/phpBB2/images/smiles/cartman2.gif

[HRSEPLA]

I know, I deserve the ban. see you next week guys.:(

[Slow Joe]

I know, I deserve the ban. see you next week guys.:(

I'm way confused....

[nismodave]

I'm way confused....

Well of...........

Forget it, too easy.:rolf

[FourEyedFord]

I know, I deserve the ban. see you next week guys.:(


:rolf :rolf

[UnderPSI]

Well maybe not a ban, but at least cake on your face :goof

[Slow Joe]

Well of...........

Forget it, too easy.:rolf

Thanks Dave... :durr

[RedGSX]

Who built my motor? Hmmm, seems to have slipped my mind. I used to have a sticker on the back of my car from them, but I still can't remember. I do know who is building it now though, and he has built plenty of small block blower motors like mine. :headbang

So who built Boss Lx's Motor then?? Also, how old were those pistons bobby? Can't believe that new motor blew, sorry to hear that. Not trying to start anything with anyone, just trying to get the facts.

[FourEyedFord]

So who built Boss Lx's Motor then?? Also, how old were those pistons bobby? Can't believe that new motor blew, sorry to hear that. Not trying to start anything with anyone, just trying to get the facts.

C&S built Andy's short block, but Andy picked out all the parts for his motor. He bought the block and blower rotating assembly from some mustang performance place. (Sorry Andy, don't know which one) 6 of my pistons where only 1 season old when they were reassembled in my motor for this year, but 2 were brand new. Cylinders 7 and 8 got the two new ones, and yet they were the two that failed.

Here is my beef. I trusted C&S with my money to pick out parts for and build my motor. They knew last year that I was going to run a supercharger, but for some reason, blower specialized pistons were not included in the build. They were off the shelf wisecos, and as far as I can tell from the description, they were meant for an N/A combination. With 10psi of boost last year they did not seem to have an issue, fine and dandy.

However this year, I brought the motor back to them for a rebuild and some alterations. I told them how much power I was looking for and how much boost I was looking to run. Now if you were the machine shop and I told you that I was looking to make 1000-1100hp and looking to run around 21-23psi of boost, wouldn't you question the shelf piston choice you made from the previous year? They did not, and it was their responsibility to tell me that I really should invest in some custom pistons.

Now I am sitting on the sidelines watching everyone else run in prime season, while my motor is down waiting for some pistons that, lord knows, I had plenty of time to wait for during last winter.

[Adamsy87]

C&S built Andy's short block, but Andy picked out all the parts for his motor. He bought the block and blower rotating assembly from some mustang performance place. (Sorry Andy, don't know which one) 6 of my pistons where only 1 season old when they were reassembled in my motor for this year, but 2 were brand new. Cylinders 7 and 8 got the two new ones, and yet they were the two that failed.

Here is my beef. I trusted C&S with my money to pick out parts for and build my motor. They knew last year that I was going to run a supercharger, but for some reason, blower specialized pistons were not included in the build. They were off the shelf wisecos, and as far as I can tell from the description, they were meant for an N/A combination. With 10psi of boost last year they did not seem to have an issue, fine and dandy.

However this year, I brought the motor back to them for a rebuild and some alterations. I told them how much power I was looking for and how much boost I was looking to run. Now if you were the machine shop and I told you that I was looking to make 1000-1100hp and looking to run around 21-23psi of boost, wouldn't you question the shelf piston choice you made from the previous year? They did not, and it was their responsibility to tell me that I really should invest in some custom pistons.

Now I am sitting on the sidelines watching everyone else run in prime season, while my motor is down waiting for some pistons that, lord knows, I had plenty of time to wait for during last winter.

I think that pretty much sums it up....:fire

[DoubleAron]

Don't forget about the part about questioning themselves if they would work or not. For some reason rather than spend .04 on a phone call to ask you they just throw the pistons in there anyways. I would think that when you are spending thousands and thousands of dollars you could invest a couple of cents in a call to the customer. As you know Bobby it isn't just them either, how about a place throwing in $225 500 hp rods with a 1500hp Dart block and 1500hp crank. Idiots!

[Syclone0044]

Guys I wouldn't drag C&S through the mud over this, they only did what they were told by the customer. Yeah they certainly could have offered some better advice but were not obligated to. I just don't think it's appropriate to set all the blame on them when they did the job they were paid to do.

The reason I say that is, compare it to some far more serious errors such as cross threading and stripping out a customer's transmission case, building from the wrong style core entirely, etc. :rolleyes: Those are the type of screwups that no professional should make and would be worth badmouthing a company over if they didn't make things right.

Bobby's motor makes a ton of power, and I'm sure at that level it doesn't take much for it to self destruct. Pistons don't fail from just simply too much power, have you considered the possibility that something else caused the failure? Maybe there was a hiccup in fuel delivery, or a head lifted and coolant mixed in the cylinder briefly, or the distributor had a glitch and suddenly advanced the timing (happened to a buddy of mine with an MSD Pro Billet and it cost him a motor when it did). Point is, I don't see a solid reason to blame C&S entirely for the failure.

$.02

[FourEyedFord]

Josh there is a reason for blower pistons. I think I talked to you about this earlier. A blower piston has more meat up in the crown of the piston so it is more capable of disipating the heat, and the ring pack is also lowered.

This is from Ross's website about ordering custom pistons for a Nitrous motor. Nitrous and boost place very similar demands on a motor.

"Nitrous places extreme demands on the pistons. For this reason, ROSS uses a different design criterion for pistons which will be used in nitrous engines. If you are going to run nitrous in your engine, be sure to advise ROSS of this at the time of your order. Also, please specify the approximate horsepower rating of the system you plan to use."

If it was not important then why would the poeple making your pistons ask for this information?

The pistons in my motor did not necessarily fail for a power reason, they failed more because they were not designed for my application. A motor seeing nearly 300 degree inlet temps being forced in at a pressure of 21-23psi just simply needs different pistons than an N/A motor seeing ambient tempereatures with no boost. Its just that simple!

How can you say it is not C&S's fault!?!?!? I didn't put the thing together or pick out the parts for it. That is what I paid and trusted their judgment for! Look at it this way Josh, lets say you paid a construction company to put an addition onto the second story of your house. (Just humor me here) They decide to go ahead and attach the addition to the existing structure of the second story without reinforcing it for the added stress and weight. They have some second thoughts about this idea, but they go ahead with the build anyway without telling the owner. Then a few months after completion the addition colapses due to a structural failure. Who's fault is it? It's the constuction company's fault. This is the same sort of situation I am in. If something is designed to be used a certain way, it is usually for a reason.
Do you see where I am coming from?

[Syclone0044]

Bobby,

When I read your post #46, it sounded like the pistons were potentially correct for the original application, and then you had them rebuild the motor and at the same time, extended your HP goal by 400HP, but they did not suggest switching the pistons to you at that time, and you're upset because of that. Is that an accurate interpretation? Or are you saying they picked out what they knew (or should have known) were inadequate pistons right from Day 1? I was under the impression you had picked out the original build, I remember you telling me all the critical dimensions a few summers back at Oscars one night before it was even built.

I am in 100% agreement that blower pistons belonged in the engine, I'm just saying from my point of view, it seemed like C&S might have thought that you and them were both on the same page during the engine build and that wouldn't be a reason to drag their name through the mud if it's the case. If you feel it's 100% their fault, have you contacted them to ask what they had to say? That's another reason I wouldn't bad mouth them, they'll be a lot less likely to extend an olive branch if they determine it was their fault but hear you have been bad mouthing them in the meantime.

[Adamsy87]

If only I could go back and do this ALL over.....

I have to side with Bob on this one. Bobby never once told them "I need my motor rebuilt with these pistons in it." Rather they just assumed that the off the shelf pistons would be suffecient which they obviously weren't. Bobby trusted their professional opinion. Which obviously wasn't very professional, and basically left all decisions, up until this point up to them.

I only speak from experience of having something ALL to similar happen to me. I don't think anyone would be very happy if they were put in his/our shoes.

And just on a side note, choosing the wrong pistons and having a motor that you built fail is a type of screwup that I would not want any "professional" building my motor to make....Maybe thats just me...

[nismodave]

http://www.revsoft.org/phpBB2/images/smiles/threadjacked.gifhttp://www.revsoft.org/phpBB2/images/smiles/threadjacked.gifhttp://www.revsoft.org/phpBB2/images/smiles/threadjacked.gifhttp://www.revsoft.org/phpBB2/images/smiles/threadjacked.gifhttp://www.revsoft.org/phpBB2/images/smiles/threadjacked.gifhttp://www.revsoft.org/phpBB2/images/smiles/threadjacked.gifhttp://www.revsoft.org/phpBB2/images/smiles/threadjacked.gifhttp://www.revsoft.org/phpBB2/images/smiles/threadjacked.gifhttp://www.revsoft.org/phpBB2/images/smiles/threadjacked.gif

[jbiscuit]

I just would like to jump in here for a second. I don't see how you guys can say this could be Bobby's fault in this situation? C&S is the "expert" engine builder here. Are they not? Customers come to them requesting a service....mainly engine building/tuning/headwork/whatever. If a customer requests a service from them, they are required to provide that service. In the event they don't uphold their end of the bargain, then there is an issue and the wrong should be made right. I think that if Bobby told them his power goals with the motor combination and it was all laid out for the builder in advance, there should be NO suprises. If it meant it was going to cost Bobby another $500 to achieve his goals to swap out pistons, they should have notified him and got his go ahead...and proceed with the work. Its basic business practice more than anything that is in question here. Go to ANY garage. They give you an estimate of what work needs to be performed on your car and they call you with this estimate. If you disagree with the price estimate, you go pick up your car and no work is performed. Why C&S would not follow these guidelines is beyond me??? NOW. That brings up another theory. Is it POSSIBLE that in your case Bobby that your motor might have been a guinea pig? Meaning they weren't an "expert" in a 1000hp+ blower motor and they were assembling it with parts based on "I THINK this will work" instead of "I KNOW this will work?"

I hope you get it all sorted out man. I do think 100% that a company providing a service to their customers should be accountable for their work. Good ethics would tell me that they would want to make this right.

J

[DoubleAron]

Is it POSSIBLE that in your case Bobby that your motor might have been a guinea pig? Meaning they weren't an "expert" in a 1000hp+ blower motor and they were assembling it with parts based on "I THINK this will work" instead of "I KNOW this will work?"
J



Exactly my thinking. I think that is a huge part in what happened.

[RedGSX]

^why not just call and ask him for yourselves? I'm sure he'd appreciate if you confronted him instead of posting on the internet. I know I would. At least try to come some sort of conclusion.

2cents

[Crawlin]

well they do have knowledge in building 7 sec nitrous motors, so extreme cylinder pressure/heat/etc... is not something NEW to them.

i don't know the story so i won't comment on anything other than that.

[Prince Valiant]

That's why I exert control over everything I have built...if a mistake is made, it's mine.

[BAD LS1]

That's why I exert control over everything I have built...if a mistake is made, it's mine.

I concur... I hate seeing people go through this kinda stuff.

I cant count how many times ive taken apart stuff 2 and 3 times during assembly to make sure I put the right part in or correctly etc...

too bad they didnt guess and throw nitrous pistons in it in the first place heh? Those could take a supercharger w/o even batting an eye! Nitrous is the most violent power adder, All at once. Not a ramp up like FI.

[scottie K]

my balls itch :rolf :rolf :rolf :rolf :rolf :rolf

[Crawlin]

stop diping in the race gas.... oh wait it's a pump gas car :)

[FourEyedFord]

^why not just call and ask him for yourselves? I'm sure he'd appreciate if you confronted him instead of posting on the internet. I know I would. At least try to come some sort of conclusion.

2cents

I called and got this answer, "We kind of questioned the pistons before we put them in." Gee, thanks for filling me in. :rolleyes:

I'm done posting about this, it just makes me more depressed. So it is what it is, take it how you guys want to take it. PM me if you have anything more to say.