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GRM-REPR
08-02-2006, 10:41 AM
I cant seem to get anyone to help me on this issue before I just start throwing parts at it, I cant even get people to give good suggestions on the Corral and that's rare.

It's an 87' 5.0, I did the MAF conversion, so no speed density. My timing is at 14* and 1.5* on the dial of the MSD6BTM. Fuel PSI is at 45 line out. It's supercharged with goodies. A9L ecm, I DONT have a custom chip. Granatelli 75mm MAF 70mm BBK t.b.

When I say practically everything is pretty new on the car and engine, I mean it. All those sensor's people say to check are new, and I checked those before ever posting. I deleted the smog system completely from the car and the O2's have under 4k on them.

NOW THE PROBLEM>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For a while now the engine has been acting like it has a noticeable miss when cold, seems to go away when it gets warm. At anytime idiling at a light, it will kill for no reason. It will also at a stop just idle up to around 2,500rpm's whenever it feels like it, then when I try to knock the idle down, it wont. A couple of times if I shut the engine off the idle would be back to normal (950rpms). Now, when it kills and I restart to drive, it will start fine but then the car has NO power and cough's and surges. When I stab the pedal, I watch out the back and the pipes shoot out massive Black smoke, I thought that means a rich condition?, which is impossible seeing as how I have my fuel psi set safely.

I would like to believe I've narrowed it down to 2 possible problems. The injectors are used 24's I bought on a budget 2 yr's ago, supposedly with 50k on them. Also, the BBK throttle body, seems every time I try to adjust my idle below 900 it will make the engine rpm's go WAY low and then to 1,500 rpm's and keep doing it unless I raise the idle back up to over 900.

If I left out any components I have then let me know. I'm out of ideas and want to drive my stupid car. Thanks in advance, JON....

MurphysLaw88GT
08-02-2006, 11:14 AM
ignition module on the base of the distributor? i had one take a **** on me once

Irish
08-02-2006, 11:32 AM
or thottle positioning sensor

GRM-REPR
08-02-2006, 04:52 PM
The dizzy is brand new, Accel billitech.

Irish, tps has less than 4k on it.

I got some replies on the Corral and they were pretty weak. I ordered injectors today and I'm going to start there. I unplugged the IAC and the idle dropped just a bit, I thought they were supposed to kill when unplugged??

Keep the replies and suggestions coming!!!

Greg@GLD
08-02-2006, 05:21 PM
You are describing problems that are typical of a mass air meter problem. Does not matter what you have your fuel pressure at, if the mass air meter is messed up or incorrectly calibrated, the car will run like crap, period. It's hardly "impossible" for it to run rich. Fuel pressure reading on a guage does not in any way tell you how rich or lean you are. It's much more complicated than that. A wideband 02 sensor is going to tell you where you are at. How do the plugs look? How are the tailpies?

FYI, removing smog devices, especialy the EGR can hurt more than help. I make 500 horses to the rear wheels with the EGR fully functional.

Might want to try re-clocking your mass air meter and see if that changes anything. Also might want to make SURE that it's been properly calibrated for the injectors. Also might want to double-check all your tuning from the meter to the TB and make sure there are no leaks.

Greg@GLD
08-02-2006, 05:25 PM
tailPIPES... :D oops.

Reverend Cooper
08-02-2006, 06:29 PM
does the car show any codes. also adjusting the idle at the throttle body will screw up everything with the tps. this can cause the problems your haveing. one other item i would look at is a fuel press. regulator if it is leaking gas into the vacuum line it will run rich and like crap also..also new parts can fail remember that

Prince Valiant
08-02-2006, 06:36 PM
Have you checked the voltage running to the throttle position sensor yet? Have you tried reseting the idle?

Lash
08-02-2006, 09:14 PM
First thing I would do is check for codes.

GRM-REPR
08-03-2006, 12:10 AM
Yes, I need to check codes, which have usually been bunk for me seeing as how I've removed all smog components.

Greg, the MAF is new from Granatelli, this one was custom built by a tech I talked with because the harness' they sent me originally were crap. Yes, the MAF is cal'd for 24*'s, I have not tried to clock the MAF, (thought you do that only on C&L's). This problem that I have now, (killing, high erratic idle, and lack of power) didnt happen until roughly over a month ago, I had the new MAF in back in late April.


Sonic, I found no gas in the line at all for the fuel psi reg. I did happen to notice tho today when I looked under the hood that the fuel psi was at 35 lbs, which is odd, seeing as how I havent started or cycled the key since yesterday??? Didnt know that you had to re-adj the TPS after messing with idle.

This problem just seems so damn phantom to me, I used to be a Ford tech for years and I'm stumped and pissed off.

Also Greg, the thick black smoke I get out the TAILPIPES (LOL) were doing this way before I even had the new MAF. Like I said before, the injectors are about the only used parts left on the engine.

Plugs seem fine also. I did have a lingering problem I did solve last week, I got electrocuted by my MSD coil, dont know why. I put my stock bracket and other MSD coil on and no zap's at all. The car was randomly killing for no reason, I even shut my hood a couple of times and the engine would kill, so I believe this is a dual problem??

Thanks for all the good suggestions so far!!!

Greg@GLD
08-03-2006, 07:03 AM
Do you have an FMU on this car by chance? And it sounds like you have the FP gauge underhood, which means you can't see it when under boost? I wonder if your FMU (assuming you have one) is hanging up. That would cause the extreme over-rich condition. If you can't monitor fuel pressure while under load, it's possible this is what ails you. I would assume that you do have an FMU if you are using a BTM also.

Just for the sake of diagnosis, have you done a leakdown test n this engine?

You might want to get in touch with Paul Graham, he's a master Ford tech and he knows his stuff. He lives somewhat close to Waukesha. PM me if you want contact info.

GRM-REPR
08-03-2006, 09:33 AM
Yes, I am runnig the FMU that came with the kit. Your also right about the fuel gauge being under the hood. Then I would assume that something has been wrong from the start because it's been rich black smoke since the install of all the mod's (s/c, intakes,cam, etc). I did a clutch a couple of weeks ago, when the Xpipe was off, it was coated black on both sides, when the car is idiling in the gargage for even 20 sec's it will stink up the place HORRIBLY, like too much unburned gas going into the engine.

Thats sort of why I figured injectors, one or more are worn out, or one that has blockage and is leaking excess fuel into the cylinder.? How would the FMU hang up?

As far as a leak down test goes, when I popped a h.g 2 yrs ago, I did one, all cylinders had good comp. I'm getting no coolant lose, no oil consumption beyond normal conditions.

I've got everyone stumped pretty good, the members on the Corral are still stumped and not even replying anymore.

What code tester would be good to pick up because I dont own one??

Thanks again for the help.

GRM-REPR
08-03-2006, 10:37 AM
I just went out there this morning to re-clock the MAF, (did) and I happen to look at the fuel psi gauge, it went UP to 40 psi?!, which is strange because when I pulled it in the garage it was at 30 even. Yesterday I went under the hood and the car hadn't been started or the pump cycled and it was at 30 psi?!

I played around with the fuel psi, when I'd go to cap off the vac line to adj, the idle seemed more smooth. The idle then just went up for no reason, I was tapping on the TPS and sometimes it seemed to make the idle change. When I'd put the vac line back on, then idle would just stay higher more often and not change if I tapped the TPS. I set the psi to 45 line capped but when I put the vac back on, it is over 40 at idle. I'm confused, LOL>....

The gauge is good and is accurate. Why would the fuel psi go up?, it used to always leak down after about 30 mins. It's a Walbro 190lph pump with probably less than 2500k on it. Mallory fpr and stock fuel rails. Would it not be smart to bypass the FMU right now? I've seen many people go without them but they have bigger injectors, just seeing what my options are.

Greg@GLD
08-03-2006, 04:14 PM
Would it not be smart to bypass the FMU right now? I've seen many people go without them but they have bigger injectors, just seeing what my options are.


NO. Do not do that! If you make boost with no FMU and 24lb injectors you are gonna melt something. The whole idea behind ditching the FMU is predicated on having larger injectors PLUS forcing them to be open in a longer pulse-width via external tuning from either a chip or a PMS or other external tuning device.
You perhaps know this already, but in case you don't- The way that FMU operates, is that when the FMU senses boost, it blocks the return line back to the tank, and this causes the fuel pressure to go much higher than "stock" which in turn causes the injectors to spray more fuel during the injector pulse. The injectors "act bigger". While it's not ideal, it's safe (rich)
If you disable the FMU, but do nothing to modify the injector pulse-width or run a larger injector, when you make boost, you will pop a head gasket at best, and probably melt a ring land or put a hole in a piston or ruin the engine at worst. DO NOT RUN IT WITH 24 Lb injectors and no FMU!!!

If the FMU is hanging up, it will cause a very rich condition.

Reverend Cooper
08-03-2006, 06:24 PM
how about the fact that you have not reset the idle properly first. go online and there is specific instructions. something like this.warm up car disconnect battery, unhook tps.start up set base idle with screw,then shut off and check tps voltage set to @.96 v while not running just key on. shut off key plug in tps and restart. now no flaming i am going by memory. get that right first before you go any further.the car should run noticeably diff with the vac. line disconnected at the press. reg. happy hunting and dont get discouraged

GRM-REPR
08-03-2006, 11:58 PM
Thanks Greg for the schooling on FMU's.

Sonic, I'm going to buy a new TPS and adj accordingly.

Injectors and such should be here tommorow and with the new TPS set properlly, I'll update the thread, something tells me I'm still going to have this headache when I'm done.

Thanks again guy's..

Irish
08-04-2006, 10:09 AM
tps, me, two days ago.

GRM-REPR
08-04-2006, 03:53 PM
Yes, Irish i c LOL...

I just dont think it's the TPS but it can't hurt to replace it. Seem's when the vac line to the fuel reg is reconnected the idle (when it's erratic) the TPS wont change the idle if I tap it, or so it seems. When the line is off, it seems to react, ???

Irish
08-04-2006, 08:13 PM
change it to a blow threw carb application

FourEyedFord
08-05-2006, 12:26 AM
how about the fact that you have not reset the idle properly first. go online and there is specific instructions. something like this.warm up car disconnect battery, unhook tps.start up set base idle with screw,then shut off and check tps voltage set to @.96 v while not running just key on. shut off key plug in tps and restart. now no flaming i am going by memory. get that right first before you go any further.the car should run noticeably diff with the vac. line disconnected at the press. reg. happy hunting and dont get discouraged

:eek: Daaaaaaaaamn! That is a lot of work for just setting idle speed.

FourEyedFord
08-05-2006, 12:27 AM
change it to a blow threw carb application

You typed the words right out of my hands....:rolf

Reverend Cooper
08-05-2006, 10:32 AM
:eek: Daaaaaaaaamn! That is a lot of work for just setting idle speed.
yeah but once set properly it never needs to be adjusted..no offense to you carb guys but the cpu adjusts after that for all conditions hot cold whatever. again no offense to you carb guys. bobby i want a ride

Greg@GLD
08-05-2006, 12:10 PM
The guy's looking for help. If we want this Mustang forum to have traffic, it's probably better to offer him some useful advice.

I know you guys are kidding but it does not help him any to say "go carburated"
He wants to figure out what is wrong. Let's help him.

+1 to coop for the effort.

DRK
08-05-2006, 01:51 PM
Bad Ground??

FourEyedFord
08-05-2006, 06:21 PM
The guy's looking for help. If we want this Mustang forum to have traffic, it's probably better to offer him some useful advice.

I know you guys are kidding but it does not help him any to say "go carburated"
He wants to figure out what is wrong. Let's help him.

+1 to coop for the effort.

Looked like you guys had it pretty much under control.
I won't kid around anymore if its a problem then......
Didn't anyone that took TuffeNuff serious get flamed for it? :confused

FourEyedFord
08-05-2006, 06:28 PM
yeah but once set properly it never needs to be adjusted..no offense to you carb guys but the cpu adjusts after that for all conditions hot cold whatever. again no offense to you carb guys. bobby i want a ride

None taken at all! I know that both sides have their pros and cons.
When I have race gas in it next, I can take you for a spin. :thumbsup Unfortunatly I can't step on it with pump gas, which is mostly what is in there. Rockett 118 is $9.00 a gallon!! :stare

Reverend Cooper
08-05-2006, 07:12 PM
kewl cant wait bobby

Greg@GLD
08-05-2006, 07:42 PM
Looked like you guys had it pretty much under control.
I won't kid around anymore if its a problem then......
Didn't anyone that took TuffeNuff serious get flamed for it? :confused

The difference is that those posts aren't of technical discussion.

It wasn't a flame. It was an observation.

GRM-REPR
08-05-2006, 08:01 PM
I pulled out all the old injectors and all Ohm'd out at .9 to .8 respectively.

Not sure what that means under a load tho.

Upper intake gasket looked like garbage and was wet on the rear runners, oil? Sure it was from the oil sucked into the intake under boost.

Didnt find jack other than that.

I checked and checked again on the proper TPS setting procedures. Sounds like anything above .88v. I will set my idle then adjust tps.

Seems like I'm going to be in for a shock when it still runs like garbage.

Oh, sometimes I wish I would have gone the other route and carb'd it but I decided to stick with EFI and S/C it. No harm done.

GRM-REPR
08-05-2006, 09:51 PM
Well, now it's worse after injectors.

May have more info tho, thing really coughs under 2k. Over 2k rpm's with the pedal down the car seems great, boosts nice and all. Still has the rising hanging idle tho. I shut off the car and restarted it and it idled up and down and ran like sh!t under 2k. I set the TPS (old one, didnt get the new one yet) to around .99v. Odd how I adjust the TPS and the running problem is worse now.?

I'm about out of ideas here and sounds like everyone else is too.:confused

Lash
08-05-2006, 09:53 PM
I know the feeling of the situation you're in...and it SUCKS!

Did you unplug the battery for 20 min. after making all the adjustment so the computer could re-set and relearn the new adjustments?

GRM-REPR
08-05-2006, 09:59 PM
Sure did Lash, and that is getting quite old as well LOL>...

Lash
08-05-2006, 10:03 PM
And there were no codes stored/pulled?

And your EGR is still functional (not deleted)?

Reverend Cooper
08-05-2006, 10:10 PM
there is one other gremlin i have seen the coolant temp sensor for the ecm, could be reading cold all the time causing a rich cond.

Lash
08-05-2006, 10:31 PM
there is one other gremlin i have seen the coolant temp sensor for the ecm, could be reading cold all the time causing a rich cond.

I though about that as well.

GRM-REPR
08-06-2006, 08:33 AM
The ECT? Yup, replace a couple of years ago when I had a cold backfire issue, which turned out to be crappy intake gaskets. ACT has also been replaced.

Carshow is getting rained out today, I'm going to buy a new TPS and IAC and re-set the ecm (AGAIN!) and properlly adj these things and if it doesnt help then I'm a$$ out of luck. I've never struggled so hard on a car before like I'm doing with this damn thing, it's self defeating.:chair:

Greg@GLD
08-06-2006, 09:50 AM
The ECT? Yup, replace a couple of years ago when I had a cold backfire issue, which turned out to be crappy intake gaskets. ACT has also been replaced.

Carshow is getting rained out today, I'm going to buy a new TPS and IAC and re-set the ecm (AGAIN!) and properlly adj these things and if it doesnt help then I'm a$$ out of luck. I've never struggled so hard on a car before like I'm doing with this damn thing, it's self defeating.:chair:


You haven't said if you checked anything related to the FMU. If that's the problem, throwing electronic parts at the car is not going to solve it.

Out of curiosity, what is the temp of the thermostat (radiator) in this car? 160 by chance? Anything under 180 is a bad idea. The EEC thinks the car hasn't warmed up yet and it will be pig rich and never get out of that mode.

Also, taking an ohm reading does not address if an injector is leaking thru the pintle.

I have another suggestion... Talk to Marv Zuidema at C&M automotive in Hubertus. He has a device that can be plugged into the EEC...
Marv has been letting me his EEC-IV datalogger device called the "SnEECIV"

You can download the software to your PC and play with some log files from my car. You can play these back and stop the action anywhere and look at the results. I know it's somewhat old tech but it still is very interesting. Notice the "MPG" dial. I found at a steady cruise in 5th gear at 60 MPH I get almost 24 MPG.

To play with this, download the software and install it:

http://www.racesystems.com/sneeciv/installer/setupsneec.exe

Then right-click and save these small log files to your hard drive: (remember the path to where you put them!)

http://www.gregangeli.com/homemonitor/test.sn0
http://www.gregangeli.com/homemonitor/test.sn2
http://www.gregangeli.com/homemonitor/test.sn3
http://www.gregangeli.com/homemonitor/test.sn4

Now open the program and you will see this display:

http://www.imagelocker.org/images/sneec.jpg


Click on "VIEW" then select "Logging control"

This will open a box that looks like this:

http://www.imagelocker.org/images/sneeclog.gif

To run any of the log files you saved, put the path in the browse box (the browse function may not work, so just manually type it)

Now press PLAY. If you hit the pause button, a "slider" will appear that you can move forward or backward to watch the dials at any given point.

You can find out a lot about what is happening with your EEC. Marv will probably let you use the device or ask you to leave a little security deposit with him.

I also suggested Paul Graham. You didn't say anything. If you can't fix it yourself there's no shame in bringing it to someone who can. That's better than just tossing money out the window for parts that aren't broken in the first place.

And lastly, if you have blow-by problems, no electronic parts will solve that issue. Do a leakdown test and a compression test and see what the condition of your motor is.

GRM-REPR
08-06-2006, 11:43 AM
Greg, I have a 160* t-stat, I've alway's run one with no issues. But now that you mention the fact about being pig rich, it may make sense to go back to a 180.

I would not know how to see if the FMU is hanging up. Like my previous thread said, it's odd now how this thing is even worse after the injector install and the adjustment of the TPS. And while we are on that subject, turns out there are many myth's about those.

Ok, I'll give Mr. Graham a call, I just figured with my vehicle having no emmisions, it would throw code after code.

After having shut off the car last night, then restarting it and having it run like crap even more than before, I figured the problem solving would have been more clear, but it's really not. I'm done throwing parts at it (except the one that fixes it). Your right, it's time to have someone diag this thing.

Lash
08-06-2006, 11:54 AM
Yeha man....put a 180* stat in. 160's are no good.

GRM-REPR
08-06-2006, 01:40 PM
I will agree with both of you.

Codes recived are as follows.

UPDATE................Also got Code 63 TPS signal voltage is too low. In conjunction with 23.
23
31
67
81
84

The only one that stuck out was 23. TPS voltage out of range for test spec. I can only assume I got that code because the engine wasnt running?

Thoughts on this? Figured I'd have more but I was wrong.

Lash
08-06-2006, 01:53 PM
Is there an egr simulator installed??????

That could be a problem with the EGR delete.

31 is EGR valve position sensor low voltage

84 is EGR Vacuum Regulator - Solenoids
EGR cutoff solenoid - Solenoids
EGR Vent solenoid - Solenoids


Having a malfunctioning or non-working (or non-simulated) EGR can make your car run like crap.

Got any pics of how the egr is delted? Was it deleted usuing the plunger mod?

GRM-REPR
08-06-2006, 01:56 PM
Deleted using a UPR delete plate. Never heard of a simulator.

Lash, pm sent.

Lash
08-06-2006, 02:05 PM
So you just have the harness disconnected with the blockoff plate?

GRM-REPR
08-06-2006, 02:07 PM
Yes, maybe I should think about a simulator.

Lash
08-06-2006, 02:10 PM
Sound like your problem?

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=636523&highlight=egr+plunger

Thae same problem could happen if no sim/plunger mod is used with egr delete.
A simulator would probably help. Plus that and the TPS are probably joined to be at fault. You said you did not replace the TPS...right? Yet you are still pulling codes for it?

GRM-REPR
08-06-2006, 02:23 PM
Done pulling codes, plus the koer test, which isnt working for some reason.

I'm just going to buy a TPS, where can I pick up a sim?

Lash
08-06-2006, 02:30 PM
e-bay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/87-95-FORD-MUSTANG-5-0-EGR-ELIMINATOR-SIMULATOR_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33553QQihZ020 QQitemZ300012860160QQrdZ1

I've also heard of others needing custom tuning to help smooth out any problems from the EGR delete. Some get lucky and dont need anything.

I've heard these help for setting the TPS also..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1986-93-MUSTANG-IDLE-MASS-AIR-TPS-CALIBRATION-KIT_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ42604QQihZ019QQitem Z290015120120QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Reverend Cooper
08-06-2006, 02:43 PM
but the car used to run fine before witht the egr deleted the way it is now right

Reverend Cooper
08-06-2006, 02:44 PM
EEC-IV Diagnostic Codes, Rev. 1.1 2/25/93
11- (orc): No problems found in this portion of the test
12- (r): ECA could not increase idle speed above normal idle.
Suspect throttle body coking. KE1
13- (r): ECA could not lower idle speed.
Suspect Idle Bypass valve problems. KE15
14- (c): Intermittent PIP signal operation.
Suspect PIP sensor or TFI module, or grounding or
interference problems at the TFI module. Y1
15- (o): ECA ROM test failure- failure is internal to ECA.
(c) ECA KAM (Keep Alive RAM Memory) failure. Q10
18- (r*): Loss of TACH signal from TFI (Thick Film Integration- the module
on the side of the distributor) module to the ECA. There is an open in the SPOUT circuit. Suspect SPOUT connector. N1
19- (o): Failure of ECA voltage regulator. Replace ECA.
21- (or): ECT (Engine Coolant Temp) out of range. Coolant is less than 50degF for KOEO, or less than 180degF for KOER, or greater than 250degF for either. If coolant temp is in proper range, suspect ECT sensor (It won't be, for KOER tests on cars tha have a 160degF thermostat!) DE1, DE90
22- (orc*): MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure, for speed-density cars) or
BP (Barometric Pressure, for mass-air cars) sensor signal out of range.
Suspect MAP or BP sensor and harness. DF1, DF90
23- (or): Closed throttle TP (Throttle Position) sensor voltage out of range. Suspect TP sensor. DH1
24- (or): ACT (Air Charge Temperature) sensor voltage out of range.
Suspect ACT sensor and harness. 1984-85 2.3 Turbo - Vane Air Flow voltage out of range. DA1
25- (r): 2.3 Turbo. Knock Sensor failure. DG1
26- (or): VAF (Vane Air Flow, 2.3L Turbo) or MAF (Mass Air Flow) signal out of range. Suspect sensor and harness. DK1
28- (or): 1986+ 2.3 Turbo. Vane Air Temperature out of range.
34- (r): 2.3 Turbo. EGR On/Off not working. KA1
41- (c): 2.3 Turbo. EGO read lean for more than 15 seconds while in closed loop. HA11
42- (c): 2.3 Turbo. EGO read rich for more than 15 seconds while in closed loop. HA8
51- (orc*): ECT voltage too high (coolant too cold, circa -40degF!).
Suspect ECT, harness. DE10, DE91
53- (orc*): TP sensor voltage too high (indicates WOT condition). DH3, DH90
54- (orc*): ACT (air Charge Temperature) sensor voltage too high. DA10, DA90
56- (orc*): MAF (VAF for 2.3 Turbo) sensor voltage too high. DK10, DK90
61- (orc*): ECT voltage too low- indicates coolant temp greater than 250degF. DE20, DE94
63- (orc*): TP sensor voltage too low. DH10, DH94
64- (orc*): ACT (1984-84 2.3 Turbo, VAT) sensor voltage too low, indicates intake air temp greater than 250degF. DA20, DA93
66- (rc*): MAF (2.3 Turbo, VAF) below minimum test voltage. DK20, DK93
67- (o): Clutch switch open, AC left on, transmission in gear. FA1
68- (oc): 1986+ 2.3 Turbo. VAT out of range.
73- (r): Insufficient goose during Dynamic Response test. Rerun test, goose it harder. 2.3 Turbo - Faulty Throttle Position sensor. DH20
74- No Brake Switch Actuation / Cruise Control Switch Actuation Detected
76- (r): 2.3L Turbo only. Insufficient VAF variation seen during Dynamic
Response test. DK30
77- (r): No goose detected durning Dynamic Respose test. Rerun test, goose it harder. M1
81- (o): 2.3 Turbo. Boost control circuit failure. KN1
82- (o): 2.3 Turbo. Check EDF signal to Integrated Controller for short to ground.
83- (o): 2.3L Turbo only. Check for EDF signal to Integrated Controller for open circuit.
84- (o): EVR solenoid circuit failure. 2.3 Turbo - Check for EGR solenoid open circuit.
85- (o): 2.3 Turbo with Automatic (T-Bird). Check for 3-4 shift solenoid open circuit.
87- (oc): FP relay circuit failure- suspect intertia switch, fusible link, FP relay. J1
98- (r): Hard fault present. The ECA is running in FMEM (Failure Effects Management Mode), so something is royally screwed up that the KOEO test should have told you about. Rerun KOEO and fix whatever you find there.
99- ECA hasn't learned yet

Reverend Cooper
08-06-2006, 02:45 PM
EEC-IV Diagnostic Codes
11 - System pass
12 - RPM unable to reach upper test limit
13 - RPM unable to reach lower test limit
14 - Pip circuit failure
15 - PCM read only memory test failed
15 - PCM keep alive memory test failed
P0121 In-Range Operating Throttle Position Sensor circuit failure.
P0122 Throttle Position Sensor circuit Low Input.
P0123 Throttle Position Sensor circuit High Input.
P0125 Insufficient Coolant Temperature to enter Closed Loop.
P0126 Insufficient Coolant Temperature for Stable Operation.
16 - IDM signal not received
18 - SPOUT circuit open or spark angle word failure
18 - IDM circuit failure or SPOUT circuit grounded
21 - ECT out of self-test range
22 - BP sensor out of self-test range
22 - BP sensor or MAP out of range
23 - TP sensor out of self-test range
24 - ACT sensor out of self-test range
25 - Knock not sensed during dynamic test
26 - VAF/MAF out of self-test range
26 - TOT out of self-test range
26 - TOT sensor out of self-test range (E4OD)
28 - Loss of IDM, right side
29 - Insufficient input from vehicle speed sensor
31 - PFE, EVP or EVR circuit below minimum voltage
32 - EVP voltage below closed limit
33 - EGR valve opening not detected
34 - EVP voltage above closed limit
35 - PFE or EVP circuit above closed limit
41 - HEGO sensor circuit indicates system lean
41 - No HEGO switching detected
42 - HEGO sensor circuit indicates system rich
44 - Thermactor air system inoperative-right side
45 - Thermactor air upstream during self-test
45 - Coil 1, 2 or 3 failure
46 - Thermactor air not bypassed during self-test
47 - 4WD switch closed (E4OD)
48 - Loss of IDM, left side
49 - 1-2 shift error (E4OD)
51 - ECT/ACT reads -40°F or circuit open
52 - Power steering pressure switch circuit open
52 - Power steering pressure switch always open or closed
53 - TP circuit above maximum voltage
54 - ACT sensor circuit open
56 - VAF or MAF circuit above maximum voltage
56 - TOT reads -40°F or circuit open (E4OD)
59 - 2-3 shift error (E4OD)
61 - ECT reads 254°F or circuit grounded
63 - TP circuit below minimum voltage
64 - ACT sensor grounded or input reads 254°F
65 - Overdrive cancel switch open, no change seen (E4OD)
66 - MAF sensor input below minimum voltage
66 - TOT grounded or reads 290°F (E4OD)
67 - Neutral/drive switch open or A/C on
67 - Clutch switch circuit failure
67 - MLP sensor out of range or A/C on (E4OD)
69 - 3-4 shift error
72 - Insufficient MAF/MAP change during dynamic test
73 - Insufficient TP change during dynamic test
74 - Brake on/off switch failure or not actuated
77 - Operator error
79 - A/C on during self-test
79 - A/C or defrost on during self-test
81 - Air management 2 circuit failure
82 - Air management 1 circuit failure
84 - EGR vacuum solenoid circuit failure
85 - Canister purge solenoid circuit failure
86 - Shift solenoid circuit failure
87 - Fuel pump primary circuit failure
88 - Loss of dual plug input control
89 - Converter clutch solenoid circuit failure
91 - Shift solenoid 1 circuit failure (E4OD)
92 - Shift solenoid 2 circuit failure (E4OD)
93 - Coast clutch solenoid circuit failure (E4OD)
94 - Converter clutch solenoid circuit failure (E4OD)
95 - Fuel pump secondary circuit failure - PCM to ground
96 - Fuel pump secondary circuit failure - battery to PCM
97 - Overdrive cancel indicator light - circuit failure (E4OD)
98 - Electronic pressure control driver open in PCM (E4OD)
98 - Hard fault present
99 - Electronic pressure control circuit failure (E4OD)
111 - System pass
112 - ACT sensor circuit grounded or reads 254°F
113 - ACT sensor circuit open or reads -40°F
114 - ACT outside test limits during KOEO or KOER tests
116 - ECT outside test limits during KOEO or KOER tests
117 - ECT sensor circuit grounded
117 - ECT sensor circuit below minimum voltage or reads 254°F
118 - ECT sensor circuit open
118 - ECT sensor circuit below maximum voltage or reads -40°F
121 - Closed throttle voltage higher or tower than expected
122 - TP sensor circuit below minimum voltage
123 - TP sensor circuit below maximum voltage
126 - BP or MAP sensor higher or lower than expected
128 - MAP vacuum circuit failure
129 - Insufficient MAF or MAP change during dynamic responded test
144 - No HEGO switching detected
167 - Insufficient TP change during dynamic response test
171 - Fuel system at adaptive limit, HEGO unable to switch
172 - HEGO shows system always lean
173 - HEGO shows system always rich
174 - HEGO switching time is slow
179 - Fuel at lean adaptive limit at part throttle; system rich
181 - Fuel at rich adaptive limit at part throttle; system lean
182 - Fuel at lean adaptive limit at idle; system rich
183 - Fuel at rich adaptive limit at idle; system lean
211 - PIP circuit fault
212 - Loss of IDM input to PCM or SPOUT circuit grounded
213 - Spout circuit open
224 - Erratic IDM input to processor
225 - Knocked not sensed during dynamic response test
311 - Thermactor air system inoperative
312 - Thermactor air upstream during self-test
313 - Thermactor air not bypassed during self-test
327 - EVP or DPFE circuit below minimum voltage
328 - EGR closed voltage higher than expected
332 - Insufficient EGR flow detected
334 - EGR closed voltage higher than expected
337 - EVP or DPFE circuit above maximum voltage
411 - Cannot control rpm during KOER low rpm check
412 - Cannot control rpm during KOER high rpm check
452 - Insufficient input from vehicle speed sensor
511 - EEC processor ROM test failed
512 - EEC processor Keep Alive Memory test failed
513 - Failure in EEC processor internal voltage
519 - Power steering pressure switch circuit open
521 - Power steering pressure switch did not change state
525 - Vehicle in gear or A/C on during self-test
536 - Brake on/off circuit failure, switch not actuated during KOER test
538 - Insufficient RPM change during KOER dynamic response test
538 - Operator error
542 - Fuel pump secondary circuit failure: PCM to ground
543 - Fuel pump secondary circuit failure: Battery to PCM
552 - Air management 1 circuit failure
553 - Air management 2 circuit failure
556 - Fuel pump primary circuit failure
558 - EGR vacuum regulator circuit failure
565 - Canister purge circuit failure
569 - Canister purge 2 circuit failure
617 - 1-2 shift error (E4OD)
618 - 2-3 shift error (E4OD)
619 - 3-4 shift error (E4OD)
621 - Shift solenoid 1 circuit failure
622 - Shift solenoid 2 circuit failure
624 - EPC solenoid or driver circuit failure
625 - EPC driver open in PCM
626 - Coast clutch solenoid circuit failure (E4OD)
627 - Converter clutch solenoid circuit failure (E4OD)
628 - Converter clutch error (E4OD)
629 - Converter clutch control circuit failure
631 - Overdrive cancel indicator light circuit failure
632 - Overdrive cancel switch not changing states (E4OD)
633 - 4WD switch is closed
634 - MLP sensor voltage out of self-test range, A/C on
636 - TOT sensor voltage out of self-test range
637 - TOT sensor circuit above maximum voltage
638 - TOT sensor circuit below minimum voltage
654 - MLP sensor not in park position
998 - Hard fault present
Definitions

GRM-REPR
08-06-2006, 06:30 PM
Ok here is the update. Found mashed pintle on one old injector, ok still ran like poop after turning it off and restarting to drive.

So after getting 2 codes for the TPS, I installed a new one. Boom, drives and idles awesome..........................................U NTIL I shut the damn thing off and restart to drive!!

I pull back home and smell gas. I open the hood and quickly notice the fuel psi gauge is already at zero!! I check all fuel lines, clean, I check the injectors, to my surprise one of them is leaking, and not from an o-ring but from the middle of the body!

Cheap garbage! I call JEGS and get the run-around from them, they cant ship one injector, only in sets and by mail form. Jerks.

I would like other thoughts on this theory. It runs like poop when restarted cuz all the fuel leaked out from the injector, causing a low fuel psi problem until it was able to build up enough??? Seems good once I start driving it for more than 6-7 secs.

I'm going to swap in an old Ford 24# and make sure it's the Venom injector.

Lash
08-06-2006, 06:45 PM
Sweet! Fix that leak and maybe everything will be good now.

MurphysLaw88GT
08-06-2006, 08:10 PM
those codes should be put on a sticky

Reverend Cooper
08-06-2006, 08:31 PM
just swap out the one old injector with one of the ford ones that still looks ok see if it drives fine. i agree aftermarket inj. suck jmo

Lash
08-06-2006, 08:43 PM
those codes should be put on a sticky

or you can get them here:

http://www.troublecodes.net/Ford/

MurphysLaw88GT
08-06-2006, 10:00 PM
cool thx...................

MurphysLaw88GT
08-06-2006, 10:00 PM
15 charicter minimum?

DurtyKurty
08-07-2006, 08:30 AM
I pulled out all the old injectors and all Ohm'd out at .9 to .8 respectively.

Why are you running low impedence injectors!?!? Did I miss something? Your running a standard A9L correct?

Greg@GLD
08-07-2006, 08:39 AM
Why are you running low impedence injectors!?!? Did I miss something? Your running a standard A9L correct?

Good catch, but .9 on what scale? I didn't ask because he said they were 24's and most low impedance injectors flow much higher...

DurtyKurty
08-07-2006, 08:58 AM
Good catch, but .9 on what scale? I didn't ask because he said they were 24's and most low impedance injectors flow much higher...

I blew it off as a scale thing to, but even then it's gonna be 8-9 ohms, which is still wacked.

Remember when Fast1990GT was having problems with his EFI? We went round and round and round with that one. Every one was asking him if he had his TPS voltage set corrrectly and he insisted that he had it Set at .9 volts. I went over to his house to check it myself and it turns out that he was checking his TPS voltage with his Multimeter set on ohms!!!!!!! ARRGH!

Im not saying thats the case here, but the whole .9 ohm impedence thing reminded me of that situation.


As far as this case goes, there is whole lot that needs to be checked on this thing. I.E. the ten pin connectors, all the critical EEC grounds, is there an engine to chassis ground strap?, what's the MAF voltage at idle, yada yada. Diagnosing this stuff on the net is real pita.

Greg@GLD
08-07-2006, 09:05 AM
I blew it off as a scale thing to, but even then it's gonna be 8-9 ohms, which is still wacked.

Remember when Fast1990GT was having problems with his EFI? We went round and round and round with that one. Every one was asking him if he had his TPS voltage set corrrectly and he insisted that he had it Set at .9 volts. I went over to his house to check it myself and it turns out that he was checking his TPS voltage with his Multimeter set on ohms!!!!!!! ARRGH!

Im not saying thats the case here, but the whole .9 ohm impedence thing reminded me of that situation.


As far as this case goes, there is whole lot that needs to be checked on this thing. I.E. the ten pin connectors, all the critical EEC grounds, is there an engine to chassis ground strap?, what's the MAF voltage at idle, yada yada. Diagnosing this stuff on the net is real pita.

Agreed, and what makes it more difficult is that it's a conversion from speed density, and that alone could be one of the issues. (The installation)
I suggested the Snnecer because at tleast the values can be seen in real-time while the engine is running- MAV, 02's, TPS, etc etc....

GRM-REPR
08-07-2006, 10:59 AM
Well, I stuck one of the Ford 24#'s back in, no leak. The Venom injector is leaking in the middle of the case (junk). PSI tested the system numerous times and everything is good.

Drove it, good. It idles perfect now.

Still one little nag, when I shut it off and restart it, it still cough's a bit for like 10 sec's. But other than that, it's 100% better than what it was causing before.

Kurt, good point, but I was running these injectors for a while without any problem.

These Venom's are high impedence style. I also did all of the tests and probing, ie= Salt$Pepper shaker cleaning of the pins, pulled codes, etc.

I'm going to follow everyone's advice and stick a 180* t-stat in, still a bit rich.

Also, thanks to everyone who helped me out on this nightmare. I usually go to the Corral. Oddly enough no one there was really replying. Never thought I'd have gotten as much help here as I did. Good Rep for all!!!

Reverend Cooper
08-07-2006, 08:48 PM
the only real thing that i can say is like kurt had mentioned just make for certain the tps v is correct and base idle is set correct. i really think this is the remaining concern. but again just one doods opinion

Irish
08-07-2006, 10:43 PM
it's probably better to offer him some useful advice.

.....so are you saying that I offered useless advice? I wasn't joking about the carb comment.

Greg@GLD
08-08-2006, 07:33 AM
.....so are you saying that I offered useless advice? I wasn't joking about the carb comment.

Yup. Sure was. You get an A for your reading comprehension skills.

Irish
08-08-2006, 11:15 AM
Yup. Sure was. You get an A for your reading comprehension skills.

Okay you bearded child molester looking mofo. Maybe he should also check the odometer to make sure it's the right mileage. If the mileage isn't right, it's not something that some new drag radials couldn't fix. Why don't you pound some sand whisker biscuit! BTW two of the fastest cars here are carb'd. Both of which are mustangs and are faster than yours!:flipoff2:

Irish
08-08-2006, 03:01 PM
What no response? Greg@GLD ='s:asshole

Reverend Cooper
08-08-2006, 03:12 PM
ok ok easy guys this is a friendly helpfull thread....no offense to either party

GRM-REPR
08-08-2006, 04:46 PM
This thread is closed as far as I'm concerned.

Lash
08-08-2006, 04:50 PM
Is your car running better/fixed now?

lol