Soc Sec for Illegal Aliens???

[d0nut]

Not sure if this is true or not, just passin it along.....



THESE ARE THE SENATORS WHO VOTED TO GIVE ILLEGAL ALIENS SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS. REGARDLESS OF POLITICAL PARTY, THESE POLITICIANS NEED TO BE DEFEATED IN 2006, 2008 OR 2010 WHENEVER THEY COME UP FOR OFFICE.


SEND THIS TO ANYONE YOU KNOW IN ANY OF THE STATES LISTED. THE ENTIRE POPULATION OF THE UNITED STATES NEED TO KNOW THIS INFORMATION. THAT IS UNLESS THEY DO NOT MIND SHARING THEIR SOCIAL SECURITY WITH FOREIGN WORKERS WHEN AMERICAN CITIZENS ARE BEING LEFT OUT.

Grouped by Home State
Alabama:
Alaska: Stevens (R-AK), Yea
Arizona: McCain (R-AZ), Yea
Arkansas: Lincoln (D-AR), Yea Pryor (D-AR), Yea
California: Boxer (D-CA), Yea Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Colorado: Salazar (D-CO), Yea
Connecticut: Dodd (D-CT), Yea Lieberman (D-CT), Yea
Delaware: Biden (D-DE), Yea Carper (D-DE), Yea
Florida: Martinez (R-FL), Yea
Georgia:
Hawaii: Akaka (D-HI), Yea Inouye (D-HI), Yea
Idaho:
Illinois: Durbin (D-IL), Yea Obama (D-IL), Yea
Indiana: Bayh (D-IN), Yea Lugar (R-IN), Yea
Iowa: Harkin (D-IA), Yea
Kansas: Brownback (R-KS), Yea
Kentucky:
Louisiana: Landrieu (D-LA), Yea
Maine:
Maryland: Mikulski (D-MD), Yea Sarbanes (D-MD), Yea
Massachusetts: Kennedy (D-MA), Yea Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Michigan: Levin (D-MI), Yea Stabenow (D-MI), Yea
Minnesota:
Mississippi:
Missouri:
Montana: Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Nebraska: Hagel (R-NE), Yea
Nevada: Reid (D-NV), Yea
New Hampshire:
New Jersey: Lautenberg (D-NJ), Yea Menendez (D-NJ), Yea
New Mexico: Bingaman (D-NM), Yea
New York: Clinton (D-NY), Yea Schumer (D-NY), Yea
North Carolina:
North Dakota: Dorgan (D-ND), Yea
Ohio: DeWine (R-OH), Yea Voinovich (R-OH), Yea
Oklahoma:
Oregon: Wyden (D-OR), Yea
Pennsylvania: Specter (R-PA), Yea
Rhode Island: Chafee (R-RI), Yea Reed (D-RI), Yea
South Carolina: Graham (R-SC), Yea
South Dakota: Johnson (D-SD), Yea
Tennessee:
Texas:
Utah:
Vermont: Jeffords (I-VT), Yea Leahy (D-VT), Yea
Virginia:
Washington: Cantwell (D-WA), Yea Murray (D-WA), Yea
West Virginia: Rockefeller (D-WV), Not Voting
Wisconsin: Feingold (D-WI), Yea Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Wyoming:



This "shamnesty" bill spells out the level of contempt the Senate has for middle-class Americans. This "comprehensive" bill includes:

• In-state tuition for illegal aliens. Your kid has to pay full freight if they cross state lines, but the illegal alien who broke into the country doesn't.

• All temporary guest workers have to be paid the prevailing wage. (Prevailing wage is not the same as minimum wage) American citizens do not have to be paid prevailing wage.

• All agricultural guest workers under this bill cannot be fired by their employers except for what the bill calls "just cause." However, American agricultural workers can be fired for any reason.

• Illegal aliens are made eligible for Social Security. Not only will they receive retirement benefits, but their children will receive survivor benefits should the parents pass away. This is at a time when we are trying to keep Social Security solvent for the next generation.

• Expands the visa lottery program, which is itself a questionable way to make visa distribution decisions.

• Employers of illegal aliens get amnesty, too. Employers would be exempt from civil and criminal tax and criminal liability under immigration law. God forbid we hold employers accountable for helping illegal aliens break the law and being the magnet that has drawn them here for years.

• Taxpayer dollars to radical immigrant-rights groups so they can help illegal aliens adjust their status. Millions of your tax dollars will go to the same groups that organized those rallies where people who came here illegally waved foreign flags and thumbed their noses at our laws.

[Karps TA]

Personally as bad as this country is being run right now, there should be no incumbents that retain their position next election. Voters should completely clean house.

[Z You L8r]

You notice a common theme in that list; almost ALL are LIBERALS. Get them the F OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

[Yooformula]

Do you know how much money those illegals pay into our govment that DOESNT get used because their ss numbers are false? A majority of the service industry utilizes them and would gain a tremendous boost by allowing this. Those people still pay taxes! It just doesnt go anywhere....Legalizing them would allow their money to go into our economy instead of a slush fund...and btw, they collect social security anyway and unemployment and welfare even with fake ss numbers. I wouldnt mine allowing them temp status as long as we do something permanent about the borders. I am not in favor of harboring every illegal but the ones that are here working should be contributing to our economy and contribute they could IF they had temp status.

[carkid0101]

Do you know how much money those illegals pay into our govment that DOESNT get used because their ss numbers are false? A majority of the service industry utilizes them and would gain a tremendous boost by allowing this. Those people still pay taxes! It just doesnt go anywhere....Legalizing them would allow their money to go into our economy instead of a slush fund...and btw, they collect social security anyway and unemployment and welfare even with fake ss numbers. I wouldnt mine allowing them temp status as long as we do something permanent about the borders. I am not in favor of harboring every illegal but the ones that are here working should be contributing to our economy and contribute they could IF they had temp status.

x2 in a very well put way, mine would have a lot of swears in it, but this is what i would be trying to accomplish in saying

+1

[HITMAN]

Do you know how much money those illegals pay into our govment that DOESNT get used because their ss numbers are false? A majority of the service industry utilizes them and would gain a tremendous boost by allowing this. Those people still pay taxes! It just doesnt go anywhere....Legalizing them would allow their money to go into our economy instead of a slush fund...and btw, they collect social security anyway and unemployment and welfare even with fake ss numbers. I wouldnt mine allowing them temp status as long as we do something permanent about the borders. I am not in favor of harboring every illegal but the ones that are here working should be contributing to our economy and contribute they could IF they had temp status.

I fully agree.

[TurboAWD2.0]

-infinity to the above.

I do not agree with this whatsoever. It does not matter who benefits; they do so illegally. This is NOT what the US is about. Yes, this country is built by immigrants, but those were legal immigrants. There is a right way to go about getting here and working here. Illegals are going about it the wrong (and illegal) way.

Don't give me that sentimental "oh but they only want the best for their children" BS. Mexico is not the only country in which the conditions are not up to par with the US. Do not play dumb; we all know this.

Furthermore, isn't this country supposed to be fair and just? How is forgiving the illegals (mainly from Mexico in this case) fair or just to the immigrants doing things the legal way? It isn't. Great example we wish to set, eh?


"Do things the illegal way, and PROFIT!"

Please. Do the proponents of this understand what it's like to become a legal immigrant? Do you know how much money and time is required to become a citizen of the US? I do. Personally. I guess, to save so much time and money my parents should have just "jumped" the border! Why bother doing things the legal way if the illegal way will net you better results?

I honestly don't care if prices on bananas are going to go up without the illegals. That's like whining when you get a ticket because you routinely speed through school zones. People have gotten used to the products of near slave labor and are going to complain when things go to the way they should have been. We should prosecute as many businesses hiring illegals as possible. They are the root of the evil and denying this would be asinine.

/rant

Now, I'm fully aware that simply shipping the 11 some million illegals back to their respective countries of origin is not feasible not necessarily moral (if you wish to argue Christian values and whatnot). Other measures must be taken, but granting amnesty is not the way to go.

[Yooformula]

In case you didnt know.....THEY ARE ALREADY HERE IN THE COUNTRY! We are not talking about letting everyone in illegal. This is about those already here hiding and working. Unless you have a foolproof way of getting them out, there needs to be a backup plan to at least help out the economy with them.

[TurboAWD2.0]

Yoo, I'm well aware. Please do not talk to me like I'm an idiot. But if we're going to go eye for an eye... In case you didn't notice, I was giving reasons why we shouldn't give them the SS benefits. It's almost like you didn't even read my post, and instead replied with a prefabricated response. I do not recollect ever saying we should let everyone in illegaly; where the hell did you get that from?


On a side note, this is why I usually avoid flaming on a forum; my 80 some posts to your 5000 or so makes it fairly obvious who's going to look like the bad guy ;).

[Karps TA]

It's almost like you didn't even read my post, and instead replied with a prefabricated response.

The same could be said of your response to him. If you read what Yoo was saying, is that many of them are ALREADY getting the benefits due to fake SS cards. If you legalize these people then thats several million people who are actually putting money into SS. Not just collecting it without any money going in.

Theres 2 problems to deal with. Shutting off the spigot or atleast slowing it down, and what to do with those already here. Making those already here legal, atleast gets rid of the under-the-table pay, maybe keeps some jobs, and actually sticks some money back into the system, instead of just it always being taken out of.

[Yooformula]

The mistakes were made already thats why our country is full of illegals but the point is how to get past that, make the necessary changes but at the same time use them to help better the economy? You can point the finger all you want about what they shouldnt be allowed to do and receive but the point is they are getting benefits already. This plan would replenish the money being drawn out with the taxes they pay now. Btw, You really didnt mention anything about SS benefits though in your response, you mainly jumped the bandwagon about being illegal. My family immigrated here too and did so legally but who cares at this point. Its about what is going on now and how to stop the drain on our economy. Also, who would work the jobs that those businesses fill with illegals anyway? Dont tell me Joe patriot would! Thats a crock of BS. You cant just prosecute them because most of them hire people that have paperwork that looks legal. There is no way for a business to know if someone is legal or not(not including sweat shops and businesses that legally report to the IRS) until the IRS calls them about it.

[TurboAWD2.0]

All right then, so you're saying that the OP's list of reforms is the correct way to go about it?

****, I WISH that I was offered in-state tuition when applying to UC-Berkeley!
I get paid minimum wage at my job right now. Quite literarly the WI min of $6.50/hr.
The rest are self explanatory.

Also, don't you think that the businesses hiring illegals KNOW what they're doing when they start paying them below minimum wage? Please, man, you know better!

I'm jumping on no bandwagon. I stand behind my resolve from the beginning, so drop that one. Giving people who broke the law advantages over those who didn't is NOT the correct way to do things.

In my opinion, I think that we need to do two things; tighten the border security and document all of those who are here illegaly. The documented workers can then apply to become permanent residents of the US just like EVERYONE else who wishes to be such. There should be no difference in that process just because these workers are already in the US (a punishment for being here illegaly, if you will). The illegal, yet documented, workers should not receive any social or financial benefits over their legal counterparts.

To reiterate, I agree with the two courses of action, but only how I've outlined them. Tighten security and document the illegals. There should be no priveledges whatsoever. No one earned them.

I will agree to disagree, but I will not change my mind on the subject.

edit: the reason "Joe Patriot" won't work those jobs is because those jobs are being exploited. Of course no citizen is going to work a job at below minimum wage. That's insane! Those "jobs that no one but the illegal immigrants will do" need to be paid a fair market rate. Outsource if you must, such is capitalism, but pay the going rate in the US economy. You're somehow saying that it's OK for business owners to effectively enslave the illegals and pay them wages which no citizen would be able to work for.

[Yooformula]

edit: the reason "Joe Patriot" won't work those jobs is because those jobs are being exploited. Of course no citizen is going to work a job at below minimum wage. That's insane! Those "jobs that no one but the illegal immigrants will do" need to be paid a fair market rate. Outsource if you must, such is capitalism, but pay the going rate in the US economy. You're somehow saying that it's OK for business owners to effectively enslave the illegals and pay them wages which no citizen would be able to work for.

We will agree on some and disagree and thats fine. I am not saying that the proposed list of reforms is the ONLY way to go but its a start and better than just allowing more potential money to go to waste.

The "exploited" jobs you mention I think you are referring to are "under the table" type jobs and I agree they should be penalized. I am not referring to those jobs. I am referring to the service industry mainly restaurants and clothing. Speaking from expierence, these people come to us for jobs and are willing to work whatever. We in turn do NOT exploit them but pay the same amount as any other worker in fact MORE because they are willing to work HARDER! As an employer we dont find out that their info is illegal until almost 2 years goes by. So from my stand point, they were working with a ss card, state ID, and pay taxes as I report them. I find out 2 years later they are illegals, should I be fined and penalized?! Again, I agree that under the table type jobs that seek to employee and exploit should pay but what about the 85% of the industry that doesnt do that? I would like to see a temp visa issued to allow them to stay for a max of 5 years and pay taxes then have them either apply for citizenship or leave.

[TurboAWD2.0]

Yoo, I agree with you on that. I was actually referring to the under the table jobs, and assumed that you were, too. Hence my hostility. I can understand that it's not alway possible to make sure that some one is legal. Once again, the employers who KNOW that their employees are illegals (those who pay less than min wage, offer no benefits, and so on) should get penalized. Legals or illegals, US businesses should not exploit them.

I would be in favor of lieniency only if the border gets TIGHTENED. Otherwise, we're just giving potential illegals more incentives to jump the border.

In retrospect, I guess I'm not really disagreeing on principle, rather on the methods.

[Yooformula]

I would be in favor of lieniency only if the border gets TIGHTENED. Otherwise, we're just giving potential illegals more incentives to jump the border.
And this statement means everything! We cant really move forward with any plan if the borders arent dealt with otherwise it would be a free for all.

[TurboAWD2.0]

^ YES! Precisely. The reason that I was against the terms of the OP is because it had no provisions for the border situation.

[Yooformula]

^ YES! Precisely. The reason that I was against the terms of the OP is because it had no provisions for the border situation.
At the same time, it is a start.:thumbsup :goof

[TurboAWD2.0]

Jesus.. You're alway on, eh? :goof

[Berettaspeed]

wow 9 Rs.... mmm quite a bit.