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View Full Version : STOLEN!!! 1994 Honda Civic



Firefighter Z
07-29-2006, 02:23 AM
Well I didnt even have this car for a week, so some low life piece of shiat stole it...:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

1994 WHITE 4 door HONDA CIVIC DX with white 17" rims. No badges has ex spoiler on the trunk. (car was originally purple)

VIN# 1HGEG8542RL038922
PLATE# 312-KZP

I was at the computer with lights on and everything, heard the car start up and I bolted for the door and tried to chase them down couldnt do it. The window was not broken cause I would have heard it and there was no glass in the street either.

I bought the car from a board member : SALEENCLONE

Anyone has any info, PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

88Nightmare
07-29-2006, 02:38 AM
what did the police say?

hrsp
07-29-2006, 02:40 AM
will keep my eyes open...fukking loosers

88Nightmare
07-29-2006, 02:58 AM
honda civics are one of the most commonly stolen cars though....

Yooformula
07-29-2006, 04:44 AM
Wtf is this place coming to?!?!? Sorry to hear about this Josh. Did you have a chance to put insurance on the car yet?

Mssplayboybunie
07-29-2006, 09:28 AM
Josh and I bought the car for one reason and one reason only and thats because we needed a car to bring the baby home in :( and the past week we have been running around getting last min stuff together we didnt get a chance to put insurance on it yet, yeah thats partly our fault but I guess we never thought someone would take that..crime where we live right now is unheard of and i mean unheard of (we live on a busy street)..COPS ha I dont even know why they bothered coming over because they didnt do anything all the officer said was "NOTHING we can do about it" we'll file a report but most likely your out of a car" Nice that was real comforting to hear...

We looked everywhere last night and no luck of it being dropped off anywhere or stripped down so were screwed big time whoever stole it though had to of had a key to get in, when we bought the car we only recieved one, the guy we bought it from said he didnt have the other one. Something tells me the car is in milwaukee somewhere which part i dont know but thats all i can think of.

Slow Joe
07-29-2006, 09:31 AM
Saleenclone is Jorge right? If it is from all I've heard Jorge is good people, so...

Brandon W.
07-29-2006, 09:42 AM
Dude this sucks. i have also noticed that more and more Hondas are being stolen.. good luck on finding it. ill keep my eyes open.

Yooformula
07-29-2006, 09:55 AM
Jorge is good people. I vouch for him.

nismodave
07-29-2006, 09:56 AM
Damn......That sucks man........I will keep an eye open.

Flight_740
07-29-2006, 10:47 AM
Well, you really don't need a key to steal a car.

Berettaspeed
07-29-2006, 10:55 AM
yeah that really sucks. i hope you get it back with everything intact. most likely just the rims will be gone.

88Nightmare
07-29-2006, 11:24 AM
yes jorge is very good people. I am personal friends with him.

Firefighter Z
07-29-2006, 11:34 AM
I asked the cop if he could let OC or MPD or the sherriff know that a car was just stolen and was no more than 20 minutes old.... You know what his response was??? Well I cant do that, were busy watching the bars.... I said WTF? Then why am I wasting my tax dollars on you?
I talked to a few friend cops earlier that day, I'm going to see if I can get one of them one the case cause this guy was a real ditz. He didnt have a name tag nor did he give me his card.

If I catch or find out who stole the car there going to wish to god they never did, f*ck with my stuff and your going to get it.

Thanks for the help guys

PB86MCSS
07-29-2006, 11:38 AM
Call the Milwaukee Police and maybe ask to speak to someone in the auto theft area, tell them what happened....worth a shot anyways.

Sorry to hear about it being stolen, hopefully they just wanted the wheels. Maybe find out where imports are recovered many times too and drive around.

fireguyrick
07-29-2006, 12:07 PM
Had a Civic stolen a few years ago, also less then a week after I bought it. I did not have time to insure it, as I was really busy. My insurance company still covered it, it just ended up taking a bit longer to get the money. Car was stolen between 4 and 6am. Why I know this, is that I had taken my two german shepards out to the bathroom at 4am, and the car was still there. MPD had found the car at ~630am on 27th and Kilbourn area, still running and on 4 donut tires.

I hope you find it, but don't rule out your insurance covering it.

Rick

68RR440
07-29-2006, 12:18 PM
That really sucks. I hope they find it intact. :crying

I had a Cadillac stolen from in my grandma's garage on the north side a few years back, her home owner's insurance covered it. If it was in the driveway or anyplace on your property they may cover it, but I don't know your specific situation.

Good luck getting it back, and keep us posted. I got my eyes open out here in Waukesha.

Junky Giorgio
07-29-2006, 12:24 PM
unfortunately if you own a honda the fact that it is going to be stolen comes with it. sorry to hear about it tho

Ricky Bobby
07-29-2006, 12:53 PM
keep an eye on the milw impound lot next to the dump ive peeked over the fence and theres lots of cars in there maybe it will pop up in there

juicedimpss
07-29-2006, 01:18 PM
damn,you just got that damn thing.sorry to hear about the loss,ill keep an eye out .

STEALTHZR2
07-29-2006, 01:24 PM
Sorry to hear about it....I'll keep a look out.

GTSLOW
07-29-2006, 04:22 PM
Dam josh thats a nice lookin car too.

Hate to say it but knowing the asshats nowadays its prolly gone.

:(

Cryptic
07-29-2006, 05:07 PM
ask Jorge if he let someone else test drive it... they then made a copy of the key while they had it.

Greg@GLD
07-29-2006, 05:11 PM
Another ++ for Jorge. Known him for like 3-4 years and he's always been a straight-shooter. Can't imagine he would have had anything whatsoever to do with this.

Rocket Power
07-29-2006, 05:14 PM
Definately call your insurance people. You have like 15 days to put insurance on it from when you get it. You're still in that window if it's only been a week. It's worth a shot.

penji04
07-29-2006, 06:00 PM
sorry to say this but the last civic i heard about stolen was striped down and the shell was burned somewhere in milwaukee i hope you have much better luck than that ill keep my eyes open.

GTSLOW
07-29-2006, 07:00 PM
ask Jorge if he let someone else test drive it... they then made a copy of the key while they had it.

Thats a great idea.

GRAMPS SS
07-29-2006, 07:14 PM
Call the Milwaukee Police and maybe ask to speak to someone in the auto theft area, tell them what happened....worth a shot anyways.

Sorry to hear about it being stolen, hopefully they just wanted the wheels. Maybe find out where imports are recovered many times too and drive around.


i agree with paul...call milwaukee, they will then turn it over to milw co sheriff dept....they stole my wifes car twice and both times they found it with in a week...they know where to look....just give it time with them...sorry to hear that...i know what your going through cause it happened to us...you feel vialated.....but keep a cool head and let milwaukee try there hand at it

PHDcamaro
07-29-2006, 07:49 PM
im sorry to hear bout your situation.... i wake up every morning hopeing my Del Sol is still in my driveway....... ill keep my eyes out 4 ya.... not alot of bright white 4 doors around.... especially since it will be on steelies most likely

946speedz
07-29-2006, 09:02 PM
ill keep my eyes open for ya, im driving through milwaukee at least 3 times a week, so ill keep a look out,

USMARINE1108
07-29-2006, 09:48 PM
I'm sorry to hear that. I hope it all works out for you guys.

subliminal1284
07-29-2006, 09:55 PM
If you find him yourself let all of us know we will knock his ass out and drop him off in some bad part of chicago wearing a rival gangs colors and sigs. OWNED

undesiredshoe
07-30-2006, 02:02 AM
man, stupid crooks.....anyway, im not much help up here in sheboygan, but ill definately keep an eye out cause you never know.

pOrk
07-30-2006, 02:29 AM
You dont need a key to drive a honda, those are the EASIEST cars to get in and go, without knowing the car ;-)

I think I could be in, running, and a mile away from your house in less then 5 minutes.

Sucks though, I would say good luck but guarenteed the car is striped and abondoned somewhere. Well, unless your being OVERHAULED. Hopefully you can find another more door on the cheap, I'll keep my eyes open for yah

Heat Seeker WS6
07-30-2006, 10:37 AM
I think I could be in, running, and a mile away from your house in less then 5 minutes.


Of that 5 minutes- Eric is spending 4 minutes and 50 seconds driving that mile.:durr

Sorry to hear about the car Josh/Jess.

Mssplayboybunie
07-30-2006, 11:25 AM
I wish i would of thought that they were one of the most stolen cars/easy to break into before we considered buying it, but then again when your desperate for a car you dont see much let alone think, Come to think of it I noticed lots of poeople latley stop and look at the car in their vechicles when they drive past but never gave it much thought because the camaro gets a lot of looks, I guess its one of those SHOULDA/WOULDA/COULDA deals where we should of never ruled out someone stealing that thing. I know its prolly stripped and gutted to pieces by now. so were gonna move on and buy a vehicle thats the crappiest thing around so no one would consider wanting it, although i'd still like some closure just to know if it was someone we knew or just to figure out who did it and hope they get what they deserve. I also noticed that anyone can steal a car and get away with it around here as long as you dont get caught the cops dont do much.

The scary part is not knowing if someone is constantly watching you or keeping track of your daily activities It honestly could of been anyone and im not ruling anyone out either but around here I feel that privacy is lost and im not so sure I even want to walk my dog at night if crime is going to be getting worse, if they stole a car who knows why they wouldnt try breaking in either its something that you have to keep your guard up about

Greg@GLD
07-30-2006, 11:34 AM
I lived in Southern California for most of the 1980's, and car theft is so rampant there that they just tell you to "come in and file a report". The cops will not come to you if you call about a stolen car, and they tell you ahead of time that there is little they can or will do about if it happens to you. Unless you get LoJack or something, you're sol.

PB86MCSS
07-30-2006, 11:37 AM
You dont need a key to drive a honda, those are the EASIEST cars to get in and go, without knowing the car ;-)

Easier than stealing an older GM? Yikes.

88Nightmare
07-30-2006, 11:40 AM
any car is easily stolen with the right tools. unless they have the passcoded keys like the newer gm's and ford's.

pOrk
07-30-2006, 12:04 PM
any car is easily stolen with the right tools. unless they have the passcoded keys like the newer gm's and ford's.

You ever hear of a Chevy Impala being stolen? They are VERY difficult to wire, since GM gacktracked every wire in the car on accident and turned it into an electrical MESS

subliminal1284
07-30-2006, 01:20 PM
I wish WI would pass the law like we have in florida, If someone stole my car and I caught them id shoot them and then say I felt threatened. HAHA

88Nightmare
07-30-2006, 02:09 PM
I dont often hear about domestic cars being stolen, although I know it happens. I know if you look up a list of top ten most stolen cars, hondas are up there, whether its an accord or a civic, but I dont often hear of cars being stolen in south milwaukee period...

88Nightmare
07-30-2006, 02:10 PM
here is a recent list I found
1. Toyota Camry
2. Honda Accord
3. Honda Civic
4. Oldsmobile Cutlass
5. Jeep Cherokee/Grand Cherokee
6. Chevrolet Full-Size C/K pickup
7. Toyota Corolla
8. Ford Taurus
9. Chevrolet Caprice
10. Ford F150 pickup

88Nightmare
07-30-2006, 02:10 PM
its nice to know my silverado is more desirable then an F150 :D

PB86MCSS
07-30-2006, 03:07 PM
I dont often hear about domestic cars being stolen, although I know it happens.

Guess most times I hear of a car being stolen its domestic, although I realize Hondas are very commonly stolen. Having a nice older car, especially GM g-body or b-body I think is a higher target for theft than a standard issue Honda, but who knows. I know GM columns any moron can break and hot wire, hence why they are so easily and often stolen if there aren't any anti theft devices.

Those top 10 car lists are very misleading, basically they list the most common cars, they don't take into affect the percentage of cars out there from what I've seen.

Goat Roper
07-30-2006, 03:21 PM
You ever hear of a Chevy Impala being stolen? They are VERY difficult to wire, since GM gacktracked every wire in the car on accident and turned it into an electrical MESS

Security through obscurity :thumbsup

SlowMotion
07-30-2006, 03:34 PM
unfortunately if you own a honda the fact that it is going to be stolen comes with it.

WTF is up with society??? How is it expected that because you buy a certain type of vehicle that it is expected to be stolen..??? I hope you find the asshats that did this..and smash their damn hands in your car doors repeatedly...good luck...:mad:

undesiredshoe
07-30-2006, 04:04 PM
Well, unless your being OVERHAULED.

yeah that would be awesome

GTSLOW
07-30-2006, 06:30 PM
Basicly if you buy a honda install a failsafe...ie fuel pump cutoff or whatever.

Yooformula
07-30-2006, 06:48 PM
Originally Posted by pOrk
You ever hear of a Chevy Impala being stolen? They are VERY difficult to wire, since GM gacktracked every wire in the car on accident and turned it into an electrical MESS

My buddy's 95 Caprice 9C1 was hotwired pretty damm quick.

Flicktitty
07-30-2006, 07:03 PM
doubt the car will show up down by me but i willl keep an eye out none the less.

Reverend Cooper
07-30-2006, 07:53 PM
no doubt they even came out with that chicago collar for the gm cars remember yoo

97z2801ss
07-30-2006, 11:11 PM
damn man that sucks

jbiscuit
07-31-2006, 07:33 AM
wow, sorry to hear your car was taken. Unfortunately like said earlier, Hondas are stolen like CRAZY in this area. I know of a couple people that have had their cars taken right out of their driveways also. Its really bad.

Philly-O
07-31-2006, 09:04 AM
a hot spot for stripped cars to turn up is around 14th lincoln. a few people i know have had cars stolen and found around that neighborhood.
sorry to hear about that.

Slow Joe
07-31-2006, 11:39 AM
here is a recent list I found
1. Toyota Camry
2. Honda Accord
3. Honda Civic
4. Oldsmobile Cutlass
5. Jeep Cherokee/Grand Cherokee
6. Chevrolet Full-Size C/K pickup
7. Toyota Corolla
8. Ford Taurus
9. Chevrolet Caprice
10. Ford F150 pickup

I'm happy to see that neither one of my cars are on that list... Well, the Prizm is kinda :rolf :goof

STKMACH
07-31-2006, 11:46 AM
I'm happy to see that neither one of my cars are on that list... Well, the Prizm is kinda :rolf :goofYour Honda Civic floor mats are on the list J/K

STKMACH
07-31-2006, 11:54 AM
If I catch or find out who stole the car there going to wish to god they never did, f*ck with my stuff and your going to get it.

Thanks for the help guysIf you find out who did this, I'm sure alot of peeps from this board would love to stomp on em or them.

Also Sorry to hear about the car I will keep my eye's on the look out for ya.......

Al
07-31-2006, 01:29 PM
Acura Integras are supposed to be on that list.

wikked
07-31-2006, 02:06 PM
here is a recent list I found
1. Toyota Camry
2. Honda Accord
3. Honda Civic
4. Oldsmobile Cutlass
5. Jeep Cherokee/Grand Cherokee
6. Chevrolet Full-Size C/K pickup
7. Toyota Corolla
8. Ford Taurus
9. Chevrolet Caprice
10. Ford F150 pickup


Yea that list is old.

HLDI Highest Theft Claim Rate for 2003-2005 model year vehicles

Cadillac Escalade
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution
Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab
Ford F-250 SuperCrew 4WD/Ford F-350 SuperCrew 4WD
Chrysler Sebring

HLDI Lowest Theft Claim Rate for 2003-2005 model year vehicles
Ford Taurus
Pontiac Vibe 4WD
Buick LeSabre
Buick Park Avenue
Toyota Sienna 4WD

Most Stolen: National Insurance Crime Bureau
The popular 1995 Honda Civic was the top pick among thieves during the 2004 calendar year, according to the "Hot Wheels" report released in November 2005 by the (NICB).

The most recent NICB report listed the 1989 Toyota Camry as the second most stolen vehicle, followed by the 1991 Honda Accord

Rocket Power
07-31-2006, 03:21 PM
I love the generic "Oldsmobile Cutlass"
in the 80's and 90's there had 3 or 4 different "Cutlass" models all different cars. Cutlass Ciera, Cutlass Cruiser, Cutlass Supreme, Cutlass Calais. In 88 there was even 2 completely different Cultass Supremes, A RWD G-body and a FWD W-body:rolf

Al
07-31-2006, 06:57 PM
Those lists are for newer cars by year.

Someone find a list of the cars stolen the most overall.

Firefighter Z
07-31-2006, 11:16 PM
Well the car was found Yesterday at a dead end alley on 6th and Rodgers. Neighborhood was full of riced up hondas. One guy was freaking out at the cop cause she was taken his plate numbers.

Only things missing was the rims, the stock cassette player and my fabreeze. What stupied mother fu<ker steals Fabreeze and 1 just 1 fricken speaker was taken also but they left the other 3. Idiots I tell ya.

They also tried taking my fart can off but the dumbazzes couldn't figure it out or they tried dropping the exhaust while the car was on the rotors, so it was just unbolted.

They also had a key to unlock the door and start the car... These rookies didn't know how to steal a car ( I've seen plenty of stolen cars on my ride alongs), even the cop said that it should have been toasted and destroyed.

Damage done was mininum, broken tail lights, front corner lights wheels of course, hood latch. So I got my parts today a an excellent price, its good to know someone that owns a junkyard. ;)

We have a pretty good idea who stole it, since I've seen a car in my area the day before it was stolen and which happened to be in the alley where the car was found no more than 75ft away.... Kinda suspicious dont you think?

Police have a pretty good Idea who it is, so its just a matter of time.
Good always triumphs over evil.

68RR440
07-31-2006, 11:21 PM
They also had a key to unlock the door and start the car... These rookies didn't know how to steal a car ( I've seen plenty of stolen cars on my ride alongs), even the cop said that it should have been toasted and destroyed.



I'm glad to hear it wasn't a complete loss, it still sucks though, cars are never the same after you know some asshole stole it, took what he wanted and ditched it, I know the feeling, I've had a few stolen myself. :fire

I saw on TV something about Honda "master keys", or a filed down key that works on all Hondas? :confused

ProjectCamaro
07-31-2006, 11:21 PM
I'm so happy to hear you have your car back and that you'll be able to drive it. Still sucks to go through all this but at least it looks like the ******'s are getting caught.

97z2801ss
07-31-2006, 11:30 PM
yea hopefully they get caught

Firefighter Z
07-31-2006, 11:45 PM
Yeah I feel dirty just looking at it, driving it is even worse, Jess wants to set fire to the car LOL.

I'm going to start loading up 2 of my Semi Automatic 30.06's one with Armor piercing rounds the other with what other shells I have left.

This time I'd like to see them take it, there no way its going to move now.

PB86MCSS
07-31-2006, 11:50 PM
Glad to hear you got it back and relatively intact, just missing the wheels, etc....also encouraging they might have a lead on the theif.

As for toasting and destroying it, from what I've seen most stolen cars don't end up this way...a theif wouldn't bother putting more time/work into it, just ditch it somewhere unless its something personal. Or the theif is just a messed up pyro too..

How did they also have a key? Hmm.

STKMACH
07-31-2006, 11:55 PM
Yeah I feel dirty just looking at it, driving it is even worse, Jess wants to set fire to the car LOL.

I'm going to start loading up 2 of my Semi Automatic 30.06's one with Armor piercing rounds the other with what other shells I have left.

This time I'd like to see them take it, there no way its going to move now. Sits and waits with his :guns1

In some country's they cut off your friggen hands for stealing, they need to do that in the USA.......

Firefighter Z
08-01-2006, 12:04 AM
Whats funny too is that that guy that called it in had a riced out Honda and that was the honda that was 75ft away...
Light blue in color, bra, gay azz looking rims, tint, APC stickersssss, with a cannon.
My brother had spotted these 2 cars driving around S.Milw for awhile, the light blue civic, and a newer 1999+ accord with Florida plates and chrome wheels, tint.
There might be a cartheft ring going on. I have th eplate numbers for both vehicles, so if there around here again or a car that shouldnt be in the neighborhood is going to be watch, plus my camera is going right now so I have no worries.

If they do get in, theres a little surprise for them... Anyone ever see Stick Death Anti Theft Systems? Well I have something simular to that.... I'm very creative ;)

USMARINE1108
08-01-2006, 01:02 AM
Im glad to hear you got it back. I'd like to see some pics of this security system.......

RanJer
08-01-2006, 01:21 AM
Glad you got it back, and in basically one piece.. Pay some old dude to sit on your porch with a shotty hehe. Sucks that this type of BS has to happen.

sidewayzbimmer
08-01-2006, 02:07 AM
On alot of hondas you can use many other honda keys. My key works in both my friends crx's and one of my friends 95 civic and mine is a 94. Kinda crappy! Glad you got it back!

Al
08-01-2006, 02:22 AM
Honda's can also have their locks picked very easily. It doesn't take a good lock picker very long to get in.

88Nightmare
08-01-2006, 06:46 AM
My brother had spotted these 2 cars driving around S.Milw for awhile, the light blue civic, and a newer 1999+ accord with Florida plates and chrome wheels, tint.

I saw an accord with florida plates and tinted windows this morning on my way home from work by college ave and howell ave. what color was the accord? wonder if its the same one....

wikked
08-01-2006, 08:56 AM
Anyone ever see Stick Death Anti Theft Systems?

More info please :D

petej
08-01-2006, 09:28 AM
"What stupied mother fu<ker steals Fabreeze and 1 just 1 fricken speaker was taken also but they left the other 3. Idiots I tell ya."


i hear ya, i got a brick to my window a few months back, they took my cd player, and a stick of deodorant, they left my gauges,afc2, and everything under the hood, smash and grab idiots

Heat Seeker WS6
08-01-2006, 09:30 AM
Congrats on getting the ride back- youre very lucky

One of my many '86 Chevy Celeberties got stolen a long time ago and was recovered a few days later.

Mssplayboybunie
08-01-2006, 11:13 AM
Yeah im kinda shocked that the damage was minor, You could tell they just wanted the wheels that were crappy anyways cause they were missing the locks and center caps to begin with so good luck with the wheels buddy who ever you are! also the person who took the car is part of a gang called "Vetoes Locos street gang" its a whole block gang..what gave it away the day we were in the alley waiting for a tow truck we were sitting for about 2 hours Every FIVE mins a new Riced out Honda, eclipse vans anything you could think of would drive up into the alley get out and trade/buy performance or cosmetic parts for their ride So obvious these people would steal cars and sell of the parts , this spot we found the car is also where many other imports have been taken an stripped so if anyone finds their import missing the place by 6th and rodgers between the bushes at the end of the alley is a good bet it might be there. Also be prepared to get stared down and looked at like an alien when you come to this part of town I think the whole block gang came out and watched every move we fricken made..

Also for anyone who lives in Oak creek, cudahy, south milwaukee area beaware of The blue hatchback civic with the license plate starting with 686 and the siliver accord with superman license plate in front because these people have been eyeing up cars in this area I just wish I would of thought earlier because Ive seen these cars stalk this block for the past week but never gave it much thought since theres lots of young kids down the block and such so just keep your eyes open

PB86MCSS
08-01-2006, 11:28 AM
If they stare you down, stare back and flip them off.

What would be very funny IMO (maybe twisted but oh well) is if you were 100% sure of the theifs car, to steal their ride(s) and strip them apart, just for kicks. Scatter the remains all over the metro area or just throw the crap away. Then drop off the shell in front of their house, maybe torch it but perhaps thats going too far. Kind of personal but hey, thats what happens when you act like you have a right to someone elses personal property and violate it, especially in our hobby when the cars are more than just peices of transportation.

As the line in Pulp Fiction goes (or something like it), *you just don't mess with another mans car*.

Firefighter Z
08-01-2006, 11:52 AM
I saw an accord with florida plates and tinted windows this morning on my way home from work by college ave and howell ave. what color was the accord? wonder if its the same one....

It was a silver Acorrd tinted windows and chrome rims with a system...

I know for a fact that these welfare checks aint covering the cost of their ride.

My security system is private so , sorry cant tell ya what I've done. ;)

88Nightmare
08-01-2006, 01:31 PM
the one I saw I thought was more of a pewter color but I could be wrong. it might be silver. It was 7am and I was very tired and I worked 8 or 9 hours lol

Firefighter Z
08-01-2006, 02:18 PM
That might have been it.

saleenclone
08-05-2006, 12:10 AM
sorry to hear about this i just found out today by cponygo
but i did only get 1 key for it .
if you find out who did it let me know ,i got a few friends that are more than willing to take care of f@#kers like that .
at least you got it back . when they stole my system out of my 81 toyota the fuped the car where the totaled it and out of the whole thing i say 1300 out of $8300 in damages
let me know if i can help w/ anything

hrsp
08-05-2006, 01:26 PM
i used to live on 11th and rogers...eeewww glad you got the car back though

juicedimpss
08-05-2006, 01:54 PM
maybe we should have a car show down there:)