Diesels: Cummins, Duramax, Powerstroke and why?

[Grim_Reeper7.0]

One of the guys I work with is looking to buy a new diesel truck. Whats your oppinion and why? Really looking for reasons why..... From the research Ive done the Powerstroke makes the most power then duramax and cummins. Personally im voting for cummins.

Reasons being, they definitly have the best reputation of the 3, they are the conventional 6cyl INLINE diesel that has been tried and true in big rigs for a very long time and they offer the best factory warranty.

So you know I am not basing this on any other aspect of the vehicle other then the engine.

Let me know your thoughts.....

[70challenger]

my vote is cummins. you can put massive amouts of power, boost, and heat and they'll take it all day long. only thing i dont like are the transmissions, which are fine for a stock motor, but they do make aftermarket trannys that will hold the torque.

[lasttimearound]

id rather be cummin than strokin' anyday

[Grim_Reeper7.0]

id rather be cummin than strokin' anyday

Though i appreciate the humor, im really looking for oppinions with supporting reasons.....

[theavenger333]

the cummins and duramax are generally a tie in most respects.... if the person just wants to drive the truck (not tune it or anything) then i'd go with the Duramax, due to the Allison. problem is, if he decides to use a programer to pull more torque, the Allison will fail, those trans are SUPER strong, but only rated for what the truck is putting out stock or close to it.

[penji04]

Just from talking to people Ive come to understand that Durimax is the most fuel efficent for daily driving. Durimax is made by Isuzu and Powerstroke is made by International. If he waits a little longer dodge and ford are coming out with new engines im sure gm isint far behind. Hope this helped in some way.

[limpimpg]

since ford and dodge don't use their own designed engine and gm does.next cummins will be emission controlled in 07.egr etc. so it will be expensive to fix buy one now before emission controlled and soon will be tested @ smog station is comming .just like cars where 68 and up are exmept.cut will be 07.

[bobo]

I think this is a great rundown of the 06 diesel line up. The D-max kicks butt, hands down. Better fuel mileage, power, etc. The new Duramax is called an LBZ with the all new 6speed Allison. You will notice it on the lot as it has an Allison logo and the Duramax logo on the badge. The LBZ dynos at 300 rwhp all day long, stock off the showroom floor. It is a hotrod.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=115662

A few positive notes about the Dmax...

H2 rims....cheap alternative to stock rims. A set of the non chrome ones can be had for around $200 and bolt right up...stock center caps fit too....chrome is $400 for all 4. Throw on a set of 285(33") 70 17's and the truck will look sweet! No lift needed. A very cheap and easy way to spice up your new rig.

Escalade...need I say more? The nav unit is a plug and play option. They can be install for about a grand...all touch screen nav....Kick a$$ upgrade for the DIY kinda fella. Looks 100% stock.

Power: Here is where I come in. With a built trans, some lift pumps and an 01-05 dmax....I can get 500rwhp for your driving pleasure! Can you say 1000ft/Lbs TQ? What do you need that for?
THIS:
:wow
http://www.turbodmax.com/photos/burnouts/images/IMG_1950_JPG.jpg

[lasttimearound]

haha, sorry as for my most of the generators we use are cummins and the trucks have cummins and they almost never break down. they are easy to work on and seem to respond well to any mods. our powerstroke is usually broke down and being towed by one of the rams

[Grim_Reeper7.0]

The LBZ dynos at 300 rwhp all day long, stock off the showroom floor. It is a hotrod.


Other then the fact that it dynos at 300hp stock, what else makes it worth it? You make claims of 500/1000.......that can be done with any new powerstroke and Cummins just as easily so that isnt that impressive. I still am not sold on the V8 Diesels, its to much rotating mass. Inline 6's are the way to go in my oppinion, like i said previously, they have been running them forever in big rigs and still have less issues then other diesels.

Right now he is between Duramax and Cummins, im trying to push him to the cummins side but i still would like to know some real reasons why you feel the duramax is better. Hp and Tq # mean nothing at this point as they are ALL very close and can all be upgraded very cheap compared to a conventional gas engine.

Keep the info coming!

[MoreTorque]

The Duramax will get better fuel mileage than both of the Cummins and Powerstroke. Basic maintenance is EXTREMELY easy. The fuel filter can be changed in 5 minutes. The Duramax makes MORE torque down low than the Cummins. It is also paired with the best automatic transmission of the three.

500rwhp/1000rwtq is NOT as easily made with the new Cummins and Powerstroke.

A few years back, the 5.9L Cummins had a clear advantage... now... the V8 diesels have caught up and passed it IMO.

[Grim_Reeper7.0]

Thanks for the oppinion! Anything helps, he wants all the pros and cons. So you think the V8 Diesels are supperior as far as durability and reliability? If so...considering the numbers cummins makes with a 6cyl.....imagine if they decided to build a 8cyl! :wooo Uh oh ford and chevy!!!! And as far as the allison tranny goes, im not sold on it anymore, ive been hearing alot about failure on them with any power increases from stock. I think Allison should either beef it up or pull out before then end up with a bad rep...

[MoreTorque]

All of the big 3 will have trans failures with 80-100hp over stock. But in true stock form, the allison is the best.

The current 5.9L Cummins has the same injector, pump, electronic, etc. problems the V8 diesels have.

As of January 1st, 2007 the 5.9L Cummins is no more. It is a 6.7L Cummins. It will have all of the new EPA crap on it, but I am interested to see its power ratings in the 3/4 ton and 1 ton pickups.

[Grim_Reeper7.0]

that I am aware of.........should be quite a beast.....

[Crawlin]

you know, for someone "in the industry" of the automotive performance world, you sure do know jack **** about vehicles. EVERYONE else I know that is in the industry, knows a TON of everything, because their job depends on them knowing. It is a requirement because they service so many different areas of the aftermarket world.

And stop trying to start some ****. I tried to be cool and just asking to see the car for my own personal amusement cause I can appreciate someone's hard work on a vehicle. And you sent some bullshit photograph that you sent 20 other people before you sent it to me, in which you said, "i'm the only one to see this".

Refer back to this thread:

http://www.brewcitymuscle.com/forum/showthread.php?p=149385#post149385

[bobo]

Grim,

You obviously are the last person your buddy should be asking info on as far as diesel's are concerned.

You can't make 500 rwhp on any diesel other than a Duramax on stock injectors and turbo. You can hardly make 500 rwhp on a Powerjoke with aftermarket injectors and turbo.

The Cummins is a great motor, no doubt about it. The problem is, it is in a Dodge. The new CR (Common Rail( I'd explain it to you. However, you don't want to hear about it because you have your mind made up already that the Cumapart is better)) is not as easy to make big power on as the old 12 and 24 valves.

Allison's don't fail...they protect themselves from failing by entering a limp mode, but what do I know?

I tuned an 04.5 Dmax in Idaho that has twins and stock injectors. It dyno's 600rwhp and runs 12.28 at 110 in the 1/4. Try that with a Ford or a Cummins on a similar budget. It would NEVER happen. As a matter of fact, a CR Dodge or a Powerstroke can't compete with my truck on the same budget..pulling or drag racing. I'll bet my truck on it!

[SmokinRAM114]

to be cummin you gota be stroken, to be stroken you gota be as hard as a rock.

I personally dont like any new junk that has an aluminum head on a diesel. my dad has a 02 duramax with basic bolts ons attutude, C/A intake, 4in turbo back high flow exhaust. the trans cant handle it. injectors went 2 times and fuel PSI regulator(under manifold)also went once. my uncle has a 6.0 ford with a cheap hypertech programmer and a cheap 4in exhaust... eats up the duramax. now both ford and chevy as of 06 have the intervein turbo or what ever its called so there is little turbo lag they build about 3lbs of boost at idle with that. chevy has the GAY IFS IMO a 3/4ton and a 1 ton truck shouldnt have anything other then a solid axle such as the ford and dodge both with a twin I-beam coil over setup. My friends mom works for delphi as a mechanical engineer in the catalyst dept. all diesels as of 08 i believe maybe even 07 even will have that POS cat with the "sut burner" that burns the **** air off before it sends it out the exhaust. as will all semis and such. I want a diesel but my budget is to tight right now with race season. I will probly buy a 01 or 02 24v cummins 6 speed. or a nice 94-98.5 12v 5speed low mileage and no 5th wheel hitch. i found a nice 95 with a converted MOD 24v and 6 speed and the whole interior was updated to a 02 also. but no money..... I want a DIESEL that sounds like it has a set.. so my choice is a 98.5-02 24v cummins. its all opionated so i guess its hard to get what your looking for with your question.

[bobo]

to be cummin you gota be stroken, to be stroken you gota be as hard as a rock.

I personally dont like any new junk that has an aluminum head on a diesel. my dad has a 02 duramax with basic bolts ons attutude, C/A intake, 4in turbo back high flow exhaust. the trans cant handle it. injectors went 2 times and fuel PSI regulator(under manifold)also went once. my uncle has a 6.0 ford with a cheap hypertech programmer and a cheap 4in exhaust... eats up the duramax. now both ford and chevy as of 06 have the intervein turbo or what ever its called so there is little turbo lag they build about 3lbs of boost at idle with that. chevy has the GAY IFS IMO a 3/4ton and a 1 ton truck shouldnt have anything other then a solid axle such as the ford and dodge both with a twin I-beam coil over setup. My friends mom works for delphi as a mechanical engineer in the catalyst dept. all diesels as of 08 i believe maybe even 07 even will have that POS cat with the "sut burner" that burns the **** air off before it sends it out the exhaust. as will all semis and such. I want a diesel but my budget is to tight right now with race season. I will probly buy a 01 or 02 24v cummins 6 speed. or a nice 94-98.5 12v 5speed low mileage and no 5th wheel hitch. i found a nice 95 with a converted MOD 24v and 6 speed and the whole interior was updated to a 02 also. but no money..... I want a DIESEL that sounds like it has a set.. so my choice is a 98.5-02 24v cummins. its all opionated so i guess its hard to get what your looking for with your question.

Whenever you get it built, let me know. I'm all about DIESEL performance. I don't care if it is a VW or a Powerstroke. If it don't have spark plugs...I like it! If you ever need any help, PM me. I'm always available.:shades

[Grim_Reeper7.0]

Bobo, i have never claime by anymeans to be a "diesel expert" But i know what ive seen and I know what ive seen people have more problems with.

CrawlinZ, as far as people in your industry knowing there ****..... I honestly find that very very hard to believe, ive never been to a dealer that had people working there that knew there ass from a hole in the ground. Mabey your that one exception but i really doubt if I walked in the door and asked some random salesperson on your floor what the displacement of a new z06 vette was, they could tell me off the top of there head. 99.9% of salespeople dont know ****..........

[H8RADE]

CrawlinZ, as far as people in your industry knowing there ****..... I honestly find that very very hard to believe, ive never been to a dealer that had people working there that knew there ass from a hole in the ground. Mabey your that one exception but i really doubt if I walked in the door and asked some random salesperson on your floor what the displacement of a new z06 vette was, they could tell me off the top of there head. 99.9% of salespeople dont know ****..........

Maybe you could come in and do a training session...
'How to talk out your ass in 1 easy lesson'
Remember...its not a lie if YOU believe it.
:thumbsup

[Grim_Reeper7.0]

Maybe you could come in and do a training session...
'How to talk out your ass in 1 easy lesson'
Remember...its not a lie if YOU believe it.
:thumbsup


Welcome to my thread, thanks friend!!!!

[SmokinRAM114]

Whenever you get it built, let me know. I'm all about DIESEL performance. I don't care if it is a VW or a Powerstroke. If it don't have spark plugs...I like it! If you ever need any help, PM me. I'm always available.:shades


haha ill take you up on that hopefully soon. im on the same boat as you. so many people think diesels cant be fast. i love blowing away people that try to pass me at a light where it goes into one lane with my dads truck..i was looking at your pics of your truck last night:headbang i want to build a VW TDI that would be a fun build but more i think about it i need the bed of the truck to much.

[Cryptic]

In my experience... sure the Cummins is a strong motor, but the truck itself is a piece of sh!t. Everything falls apart.

We had a 98/12 valve/1 ton. It started leaking oil profusely out of some cover on the front of the motor (timing chain cover???) Whatever it was, it was a common problem, many had same issue. Dodge/Cummins did nothing to remedy the problem which was obviously a manufacturer defect.

Pieces of the interior would fall apart. I've scene this on more than 1 dodge (even newer than 98's)

The steering was crappy. Alot of play. Very odd sensation, more difficult to hold the truck in the center of your lane.

Brakes overheated in the Rockies towing a snowmobile trailer. Our 01 Tahoe did just fine towing a fair amount a wieght for a half ton vs a 1 ton frame desiel.

Therefore I wouldn't try another Dodge until I have several better experiences than what i have thus far.

[Grim_Reeper7.0]

I guess ill have to stand up for them......i love them.....the steering is one of my favorite things....its almost TO easy. I drive other vehicles and the steering feels heavy and loose.....the dodge seems to be real tight and easy....

[UnderPSI]

Pieces of the interior would fall apart. I've scene this on more than 1 dodge (even newer than 98's)

Brakes overheated in the Rockies towing a snowmobile trailer.

Those are the reasons we stoped using dodges at work, All Chevy and Ford now.

[GrimreaperSS]

Just something I seen the other day browsing through the Magazine section at Barnes&Nobles.
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/toc/thismonth/.
I've always been a GM person and am quite happy with the results. But at the same time, having gone through Diesel Training, I cant argue with the Staight-6 design! I would personally buy the Chevy/GMC because of brand loyalty, and also cause my little bro and all his friends are Dodge truck guys, gotta get something different than them. But I do like the Dodge line. Obviously magazine tests/articles arent the bible, but it may help in a decision on which way to go?

[Grim_Reeper7.0]

Thanks for the info! Nice to have a unbiased oppinion here....

[penji04]

Before my father ordered his truck he also looked at how nice the truck was overall. It was either a chevy or ford, he bought the ford because it had more room, i think it was cheaper (at the time), and the interior space was very functional. I say go out test drive them all and see what works. If you want a vehicle for just the engine you could end up disapointed in the long run. Why should a truck feel cheap for all that money your spending?

[slow90z]

i would go with the d-max, stock they are fastest, and with mild mods can be made into complete animals. plus i like the chevy interior and looks the best, but thats just me.

[88Nightmare]

I know Im late on this thread, but I would have to recommend the Duramax. Ford and Dodge are not as technologically advanced as Chevy these days. The Cummins is a great motor, no doubt about it. Its tough and can see big numbers as far as mileage before needing an overhaul. Not only that, Cummins is owned by Ford Motor Company. So you are buying a Ford engine in a Dodge wrapper. The Powerstroke, made by International (Navistar) is also owned by Ford Motor Company. As said before, the durmax is an Isuzu engine. Isuzu makes lots of cab over engine straight trucks that last forever and then some. Duramax is nothing less then that. I don't know about modding and what handles what better, but out of the showroom, I believe the Duramax has the most power. The truck is also a better piece of technology as well. The Allison trans is excellent. Not only that, Allison transmissions are in many U.S. Army Tanks. And as said before, Allisons cannot 100% fail leaving you stranded. They have limp mode. I do not own a diesel, although I do own a 2002 Chevy 1500, and I have to say out of the big 3, I like this truck over the other 2 companies. The truck is by far way better. The IFS is weak for hardcore offroading, but I don't use the truck for that. The ride quality is far better then Dodge and Ford. If you really need the power and strength of a 3/4 or 1 ton truck, wouldn't you prefer a nice smooth comfortable ride as opposed to the ride quality of a school bus? Sit in a Chevy's interior, and then sit in a Dodge's interior. Enough said. Duramax owns.

[MoreTorque]

Eeech... I agree with the recommendation for a truck, but you have some facts mixed up.

Cummins is not in any way owned by Ford. That ended in the 90's. The Duramax was developed by GM and Isuzu, but the Duramax engine is made by Duramax LTD, a GM company, in the US.

[88Nightmare]

ah. so im out of date. chevy duramax silverados are still damn good.

[Brandon W.]

well my step-dad has a 2002 Powerstroke and he loves it.lots of power and torque.(no its not stock but whatever) and he is a BIG Dodge guy,so him loving a Ford is kind-of wierd. anyway he used to have a 94 Dodge 2500. when we got rid of it it had almost 190k on it. that truck was Beatin on everyday of its life. that and he Plowed with it. that thing had low compression on 4 out of 8 cylinders but it Still fired up everymorning. he sold it to one of his friends and that truck is still going like when it was new. that is a good truck. original engine and Tranny.

[88Nightmare]

my neighbor has a 99 powerstroke. 197k miles, original everything. only unusual repair we did on it was the wiring harness underneith the passenger side valve cover which controls the injectors and glow plugs shorted out. thats it. and he pulls his 45ft 5th wheel trailer with it.

[SmokinRAM114]

anyway he used to have a 94 Dodge 2500. when we got rid of it it had almost 190k on it. that truck was Beatin on everyday of its life. that and he Plowed with it. that thing had low compression on 4 out of 8cylinders but it Still fired up everymorning. he sold it to one of his friends and that truck is still going like when it was new. that is a good truck. original engine and Tranny.


TYPO

[88Nightmare]

TYPO

perhaps it had the 5.9 liter. He did not specify as to whether it was gas or diesel. :thumbsup :goof

[Brandon W.]

sorry it was a Gas. ya i know the Cummins have in-line 6's. which by the way i think is the best running Diesel out there. straight up straight down.

[88Nightmare]

yeah best running. not necessarily the best power producing. Bottom line to me is any of the big 3 diesels will run a long damn time. They all have their hit or miss problems. It just comes down to fuel mileage and who produces more power at what rpm.