'Cure for Pain at the Pump?'

[97PontiacW68]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12676374/

i wonder how this would affect performance..

[t_a_crazy121]

if they are talkin about E85 fuels and flux fuels then yeah it does affect performance, my auto teacher went to a recent seminar about the truth on the ethanol based fuels. they are cheaper per gallon but mpg's go down and performance takes a dive, plus they can only be used on cars that are equipped with flux fuel or E85 fuel lines and pumps. so if you honestly wanted it you would have to change the whole fuel system out and probably adjust the timing on your car

[97PontiacW68]

really not worth it then.. oh well i thought it was an interesting read nontheless :)

[Al]

The only good thing Doyle can do is eliminate %85 of the tax on ethanol because that portion of the cost is renewable and stays in the region.

[sloLs1]

if they are talkin about E85 fuels and flux fuels then yeah it does affect performance, my auto teacher went to a recent seminar about the truth on the ethanol based fuels. they are cheaper per gallon but mpg's go down and performance takes a dive, plus they can only be used on cars that are equipped with flux fuel or E85 fuel lines and pumps. so if you honestly wanted it you would have to change the whole fuel system out and probably adjust the timing on your car


thats exactly right!!! I had a lecture on alternative fuels in EMS and we covered E85.

[70challenger]

the thing about ethenal is it contains half the energy of normal gasoline, but your car wont lose alot of power, gas mileage decreases by about half because it requires a different air/feul ratio. i think optimum a/f with entenal is like 7 and gasoline is ofcourse 14.7.

atleast that's what they told me at gay-a$$ wyotech

[MurphysLaw88GT]

i thought it was 10:1, huh.....whaddo i kno

[MoreTorque]

Found this document on Ethanol/E85


E85 AND ENERGY CONTENT – how much energy is there?

What is the real energy content of E85? How many btus in a gallon of E85 in comparison to unleaded gasoline? For that matter, what is a btu? How far can a vehicle operate on E85 in comparison to gasoline? The first step in answering these commonly asked questions is to determine a common denominator.

There is only one common unit of measurement in reference to energy, the British Thermal Unit (btu). This is a standard unit for measuring heat energy. One btu represents the amount of heat required to raise one pound of water one degree Fahrenheit at sea level. More commonly, one btu is the energy produced by a typical wooden kitchen match.

According to the American Automobile Manufacturers Association, a gallon of typical gasoline contains 114,132 btu’s. However, even this amount of energy content changes from summer to winter as gasoline’s volatility is seasonally adjusted. For the purposes of this summary, we assume the following:

1 U.S. Gallon of gasoline contains 114,132 btu
1 U.S. Gallon of no. 2 diesel fuel contains 138,000 btu
1 U.S. Gallon of ethanol contains 76,000 btu
1 U.S. Gallon of methanol contains 56,800 btu
1 U.S. Gallon of propane contains 84,500 btu
1 U.S. Gallon of compressed natural gas contains 19,800 btu

Ethanol is denatured by adding 5 gallons of gasoline to 100 gallons of ethanol (4.76%), therefore:

Ethanol @ 76,000 btu/gal x 95.24% = 72,382
Gasoline @ 114,132 btu/gal x 4.76 = 5,433

Denatured ethanol = 77,815 btu/gallon

E85 is then a blend of denatured ethanol and gasoline, therefore:

Denatured ethanol @ 77,815 btu/gal x 85% = 66,143
Gasoline @114,132 btu/gal x 15% = 17,120

E85 = 83,263 btu/gal


E85 - how much energy is there?

In an arithmetic sense, 1 volumetric gallon of E85 represents 73% of the btu value of gasoline.

Should an assumption be made that if E85 contains 27% less btu’s than a gallon of gasoline, the vehicle will travel 27% less miles on the same number of gallons of fuel? Does this mean that it costs 27% more to operate a vehicle on E85 than on unleaded gasoline?

The answers to the preceding questions are NO! There will indeed be a loss in fuel mileage when a vehicle is operated on E85. Actual driving experiences indicate that the loss of fuel mileage in a vehicle using E85 will range from 5% to 12% depending on the driver and the conditions of the terrain.

[Yooformula]

I read in a newpaper that actually running plus over reg will get you more mpg as the engine runs more efficiently. So even though you spend about $1 more per tank, you get approx 17-21 miles per tank. Anyone know for sure...?

[theavenger333]

premium most certainly makes a vehicle get slightly better mileage, mostly because of its cleaning traits yoosef. hence why its good here and there on a regular vehicle to run a tank of premium, (for optimum use a good injector cleaner too) when you go on a highway trip. give it a bit more on the onramp, its gets the motor good and hot, burns the excess carbon and such out, etc.

[Big Boost]

Just a FYI. My daily driver is a '03 Yukon XL and it is a Flex Fuel Vehicle. I was actually using E85 for awhile before Channel 12 broke the story to the masses. I was paying about $1.99 per gallon until the story appeared on TV. The next day it went up to $2.15 and currently it's NO CHEAPER than regular gas. How in the world can an alternative fuel cost the same as gas when using 85% less gas in its mixture?!? Rip off........
Your gas mileage does suffers considerably, but it does run smoother with the higher octane.

[Baddriver01]

I don't know where you buy your E85 but it's still $1.99-2.14 in the Hartford area. One also has to realize that gas stations are under pressure NOT to sell Ethanol from their regular gasoline suppliers. Some suppliers stop delivering product if a station uses Ethanol, others charge a premium. If you want to continue using ethanol - support the stations that have it.

Ethanol is a technology like anything else, it and the cars that run it will become more efficient in the future. Now this isn't the end to all of our oil woes in the US but it is something we can control now and do something about.

Gas mileage does go down (I've experienced up to 20% loss) but if the cost is 20% less than regular, it is worth it. Also remember though there are environmental AND energy independence issues at hand not just your pocket book.

The Trans Am gets premium as does the Pacifica but the Taurus and Caravan are flex fuel. I use it where I can.

[Big Boost]

Hm-m, that's interesting that Milwaukee is being priced gouged for E85. I guess stations around here are saying that the demand for E85 is higher thus the increase in price. There are only 4 stations that carry it around here and they were all around the same price.

[Baddriver01]

I drove by today (Saturday May 13th) and it was still $2.14 at the BP on hwy 60 in slinger, next to the ford dealership. It's too bad gouging goes on. There was a thing on 20/20 about how gouging is good. I don't buy it...