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sloLs1
02-27-2006, 09:20 PM
I am in the market for a clutch for my '05 EVO... i have been looking at a exedy twin disk... but you can get either carbon or ceramic... i have heard carbon only works good when warm??!?! my power goals are 500whp max. so it needs to have good holdin power... i have never driven a car with a twin disk set-up before... is it much different than a regular single disk clutch?? Any comments, concerns and help is appreciated!!!
thank you!

fireguyrick
02-27-2006, 10:23 PM
What about an ACT clutch? I have heard alot of the Exedy clutches failing at high power levels on STi's. If you want to spend $$$ Tilton, if they make one for the EVO, they are the best.

What are your mod plans?

Rick

RedGSX
02-27-2006, 11:26 PM
here is a write up done by sportcompact car. might help in the decision. http://sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0407scc_evovssti2/

fly5150
02-28-2006, 06:11 AM
I'm in the middle of doing a quarter master twin disc in my srt-4. should be on the road saturday. very similar to the fx700 made my clutchmasters. Unsprung, ceramic, lightweight. :)

jbiscuit
02-28-2006, 08:01 AM
the Tiltons are the best hands down but I don't think you need to drop the coin on a clutch like that. The Exedy's are garbage...big coin and they fail, Have you done some searching on the EVO forums?

Bee
02-28-2006, 12:20 PM
What about an ACT clutch? I have heard alot of the Exedy clutches failing at high power levels on STi's. If you want to spend $$$ Tilton, if they make one for the EVO, they are the best.

What are your mod plans?

Rick


hehe.. twin discs exedy failing.. haha!!! we've made close to 650whp already w/o a problem.. still bitting. figure 750-800whp is when it'll start to give in.. maybe EVO and STI's are different when dealing with twin disc exedy...
now the single disc Exedy sucks sh1t....don't ever buy one. seen too many fail BIG TIME.....

ACT single disc 2600lb could do the 500whp job.. maybe even a 2900...

in any case all these extreme twin and act singles are hard at the pedal.. be ready for a work out... :thumbsup

jbiscuit
02-28-2006, 12:38 PM
Bee, horsepower doesn't kill the clutches...its the torque. I have read countless posts on the Exedys failing when used in subarus. Maybe they work fine in the EVOs but from what I have read concerning the subarus, you can spend your money more wisely by selecting an alternate brand.


J

fireguyrick
02-28-2006, 02:02 PM
Bee, horsepower doesn't kill the clutches...its the torque. I have read countless posts on the Exedys failing when used in subarus. Maybe they work fine in the EVOs but from what I have read concerning the subarus, you can spend your money more wisely by selecting an alternate brand.


J


Totally agree with you. Not trying to say Bee has no clue, as we all know that he does. It is just that Honda's are REALLY different then Subaru's & Evo's. Just like Bee, I am giving my perspective from what I drive. I figure my platform is a bit closer to what sloLs1 is planning though. My tuner, which is one of the most respected Subaru tuners in North America, and is also a well respected EVO tuner HATES Exedy clutches. I had a delay issue on my ACT clutch, and was unable to get it in prior to my tune. I could have bought an Exedy clutch prior to going up. After talking to my tuner, they said they would rather work with stock vs. an aftermarket Exedy unit.

Rick

jbiscuit
02-28-2006, 02:07 PM
Good point Rick...it should be noted that I wasn't trying to suggest Bee didn't know what he was talking about, my comment was referring to the gobs of torque the subaru motors create under high boost situations. Look at a dyno plot of any well tuned subaru motor and you will see why the motors are hard on trannys. You get HP and torque spikes that climb very rapidly, putting a lot of strain on the driveline...mostly the clutch/trans/diffs etc

fireguyrick
02-28-2006, 03:57 PM
Not to mention on alot of AWD cars, if you just out and out drop the clutch you are going to break something very fast. AWD cars require alot of slipping of the clutch, which eats away at it DAMN fast. Personally, my ACT is not going to last, so when I am having some work done around June/July my tuner is going to drop in a Tilton Carbon clutch. Hella $$$$, but the cost to rebuild it is only ~$150 or so dollars vs. ~$400 for others that can handle the power I am looking to put out.

Rick

twicks69
02-28-2006, 04:01 PM
I would reccomend the quartermaster v-drive twin disk clutch if you are expecting to be using a GT35R or larger, with the intention of always launching the car at the track.

If this is a street car, I'd steer towards an ACT 2600 (500 lb/tq rating)

Check out www.machevo.com, AMS, or other DSM sites...buschur, switzer, extreme, etc.

For the quartermaster, Adam D at devotuning.com is the guy to talk to for a badass 1/4mile clutch.

EVIL AWD
02-28-2006, 05:08 PM
I would reccomend the quartermaster v-drive twin disk clutch if you are expecting to be using a GT35R or larger, with the intention of always launching the car at the track.

If this is a street car, I'd steer towards an ACT 2600 (500 lb/tq rating)

Check out www.machevo.com, AMS, or other DSM sites...buschur, switzer, extreme, etc.

For the quartermaster, Adam D at devotuning.com is the guy to talk to for a badass 1/4mile clutch.

I'm going to have to second that. The QuarterMaster Twin-Disc all the way. It will hold all the power, allow for quicker shifts and the pedal stiffness is half that of the ACT 2600 someone mentioned earlier.

sloLs1
02-28-2006, 08:45 PM
awesome!!! see i have done a little bit of searching for clutches and i see a lot of EVOs running exedy?!?! I have ran ACT clutches numerous times before and have always had good luck with them... so maybe i will go towards an ACT! Like i said before my power goals for now is take the stock motor to its limits of about 500hp. I prolly wont get there but its always nice to have a clutch that can stand the power that i could possibly have. I do a lot of daily driving with it but i also like to launch it at the track so hopefully this ACT clutch can hold the power... and as Bee said it will be a little heavier feeling... i had a camaro with a beefy clutch in it so i know what i am getting myself into!!! i like being able to feel the clutch like that!!! well i will let you guys know when i get a clutch and get it installed. I am looking into getting a GT30r turbo, HKS 272's, injectors, fuel pump ect. for it later in the year! I will keep you guys posted!! Thanks for the help... you guys could have saved me from blowin up a exedy clutch!!

Bee
02-28-2006, 09:13 PM
Bee, horsepower doesn't kill the clutches...its the torque. I have read countless posts on the Exedys failing when used in subarus. Maybe they work fine in the EVOs but from what I have read concerning the subarus, you can spend your money more wisely by selecting an alternate brand.


J


yeah i know it's the torque, but then again HP plays a role too..you just can't leave HP out of the equation... In essense...it's actually both!!!

that one dude in burlington that runs low-mid 9sec in the oldschool EVO uses the exedy and claims to make somewhere in the 800whp w/ NOS. Heard he has problems with the twin exedy on NOS... hehe don't tell me he's only making 300ft-lb.... :rolf gootta be a decent amount of torque with 800whp...

Bee
02-28-2006, 09:15 PM
awesome!!! see i have done a little bit of searching for clutches and i see a lot of EVOs running exedy?!?! I have ran ACT clutches numerous times before and have always had good luck with them... so maybe i will go towards an ACT! Like i said before my power goals for now is take the stock motor to its limits of about 500hp. I prolly wont get there but its always nice to have a clutch that can stand the power that i could possibly have. I do a lot of daily driving with it but i also like to launch it at the track so hopefully this ACT clutch can hold the power... and as Bee said it will be a little heavier feeling... i had a camaro with a beefy clutch in it so i know what i am getting myself into!!! i like being able to feel the clutch like that!!! well i will let you guys know when i get a clutch and get it installed. I am looking into getting a GT30r turbo, HKS 272's, injectors, fuel pump ect. for it later in the year! I will keep you guys posted!! Thanks for the help... you guys could have saved me from blowin up a exedy clutch!!

hey bro, don't worry the Exedy will NOT let you down.... i mean if you were going in the 700+whp range then reconsider!!! hehe!!! :thumbsup see you around dude :goof

Cryptic
02-28-2006, 10:06 PM
I liked the ACT clutch I put in the 7 last summer. I havent had it long enough to speak for its longevity. But so far so good.

sloLs1
02-28-2006, 11:00 PM
I liked the ACT clutch I put in the 7 last summer. I havent had it long enough to speak for its longevity. But so far so good.


you have an EVO 7???? yea i only plan on running that clutch for the summer and part of next year... next year i want to go big but thats all if everything goes as planned :rolf !!! I dont want a clutch now if i can only drive it at the track... maybe next year it will be a track car?!?!?!?

sloLs1
02-28-2006, 11:01 PM
hey bro, don't worry the Exedy will NOT let you down.... i mean if you were going in the 700+whp range then reconsider!!! hehe!!! :thumbsup see you around dude :goof


yea we'll see what happens!!! i will have to make a stop at your shop sometime to check it out... if you'll be around, i will be home march24-april2. maybe then?!?!?

TheBlueSupra
02-28-2006, 11:01 PM
unsure if RPS, or Tilton make one for the evo. but those brands are very good. my buddy has a Exedy in his Evo and has never had a problem with it also so those three i would look into. AND go Carbon

sloLs1
02-28-2006, 11:11 PM
why carbon... whats the difference between carbon and ceramic... longitivity??? gripping power??? driveability??? i know the what the two compounds are... i just want to know what are the advantages and disadvantages of both!!! thank you!

DSMDuDE
02-28-2006, 11:19 PM
I to have a quartermaster Twin disc and love it.. Cant wait to really abuse it and see what it will take

Purchased mine though devotuning also. Adam is a great guy!

sloLs1
02-28-2006, 11:22 PM
I to have a quartermaster Twin disc and love it.. Cant wait to really abuse it and see what it will take

Purchased mine though devotuning also. Adam is a great guy!

what kind of car do you have it installed on??? let me know how it goes!!!

TopStreetDsm
02-28-2006, 11:36 PM
People stand there cars on the bumpers with the 7.25" V-Drive Quarter master. 1.3sec 60' times is not uncommon in the DSM world on the same clutch. If you would like to hop in my car and see how it feels let me know. I have the same discs you would be using with the 1" 23spline input shaft.

I have not seen these kind of results out of the exedy's. I have seen several breakages though. I also see exedy trying to give deep discounts to vendors inorder to get them to sell there clutch. Because of this, you are going to have alot of them out there.

Further more you are talking about a greatly reduced price tag with the Q-Master.

I am not selling out to a company that has a lot of money for advertising and gets it at the expense of a good clutch. Go with what works!

Jake

DSMDuDE
03-01-2006, 10:15 AM
what kind of car do you have it installed on??? let me know how it goes!!!

I have it in my 1991 Galant VR4.. Oh yea, pedal pressure is the best with this clutch, almost feels lighter then stock, Which is a very good thing...

Cryptic
03-01-2006, 11:27 AM
you have an EVO 7???? yea i only plan on running that clutch for the summer and part of next year... next year i want to go big but thats all if everything goes as planned :rolf !!! I dont want a clutch now if i can only drive it at the track... maybe next year it will be a track car?!?!?!?

RX-7 you tool... the one in the sig :durr

twicks69
03-01-2006, 04:43 PM
that one dude in burlington that runs low-mid 9sec in the oldschool EVO uses the exedy and claims to make somewhere in the 800whp w/ NOS. Heard he has problems with the twin exedy on NOS... hehe don't tell me he's only making 300ft-lb.... :rolf gootta be a decent amount of torque with 800whp...

You must be talking about Adam Dunienczuk or Yusuf Begic (both have white evo 2's). Neither of these guys live in Burlington -- they both live in Illinois. I believe that both of them are running quartermaster twin disk v-drive clutches designed by Adam D. himself (www.devotuning.com).
Adam D. is running mid-9's if I remember correctly, and Yusuf is running 10.5's.

***ACT 2600 w/ street disk would be cheapest bet. ~$600 +/-
***Quartermaster should be around 1000-1400 from adam D. or Jake @ topstreet. http://www.top-street.com/
***HKS twin disk is around 1450 www.horsepowerfreaks.com ($600 for a future rebuild on this one...gets expensive quick)
***ATS carbon single disk is around 1450 www.horsepowerfreaks.com
***RPS twin disk sets starting at $2800, and usually don't last that long. crappy friction surface material.


I hope that these numbers help out.

DSMDuDE
03-01-2006, 04:56 PM
yusuf still has his EVO II, but Adam sold his EVO II

Yusuf's EVO should be pretty damn quick seeing it was runing 139MPH traps with to small of a Exh housing and VERY low compression on all cylinders.. everything is worked out and he should be moving even quicker now!

Who is this guy in burlington you are takling about Tim? never heard about him and i am right down the road in Delavan

sloLs1
03-01-2006, 08:16 PM
People stand there cars on the bumpers with the 7.25" V-Drive Quarter master. 1.3sec 60' times is not uncommon in the DSM world on the same clutch. If you would like to hop in my car and see how it feels let me know. I have the same discs you would be using with the 1" 23spline input shaft.

I have not seen these kind of results out of the exedy's. I have seen several breakages though. I also see exedy trying to give deep discounts to vendors inorder to get them to sell there clutch. Because of this, you are going to have alot of them out there.

Further more you are talking about a greatly reduced price tag with the Q-Master.

I am not selling out to a company that has a lot of money for advertising and gets it at the expense of a good clutch. Go with what works!

Jake

I belive i have spoken to you before about clutches... i would for sure love to take a ride in your car but we'll see what happens... i take it your a vendor of Quarter master?? how much would one run me??? thank you!

sloLs1
03-01-2006, 08:19 PM
You must be talking about Adam Dunienczuk or Yusuf Begic (both have white evo 3's). I believe that both of them are running quartermaster twin disk v-drive clutches designed by Adam D. himself (www.devotuning.com).
Adam D. is running mid-9's if I remember correctly, and Yusuf is running 10.5's.

***ACT 2600 w/ street disk would be cheapest bet. ~$600 +/-
***Quartermaster should be around 1000-1400 from adam D. or Jake @ topstreet. http://www.top-street.com/
***HKS twin disk is around 1450 www.horsepowerfreaks.com ($600 for a future rebuild on this one...gets expensive quick)
***ATS carbon single disk is around 1450 www.horsepowerfreaks.com
***RPS twin disk sets starting at $2800, and usually don't last that long. crappy friction surface material.


I hope that these numbers help out.

thanks for that but i have already been to these sites... i wanted peoples opinon and or experiance with these clutches.

It is very hard to pick out a very important part of a car which could make a night and day difference between the two!

twicks69
03-01-2006, 09:59 PM
thanks for that but i have already been to these sites... i wanted peoples opinon and or experiance with these clutches.

It is very hard to pick out a very important part of a car which could make a night and day difference between the two!


well, in my opinion...


I have had a few 2600's in my DSM. at least 5 street disks, 1 6-puck, and now am running a segmented kevlar sprung disk with my ACT 2600 PP, and a Fidanza flywheel with excellent success.

My future clutch will ONLY be a quartermaster twin disk---there is nothing else worth my time to look at.

sloLs1
03-01-2006, 10:12 PM
well, in my opinion...


I have had a few 2600's in my DSM. at least 5 street disks, 1 6-puck, and now am running a segmented kevlar sprung disk with my ACT 2600 PP, and a Fidanza flywheel with excellent success.

My future clutch will ONLY be a quartermaster twin disk---there is nothing else worth my time to look at.


Hmmmmm.... all of you DSM guys are steering my towards a quartermaster... to tell you the truth, i have never even have heard of them?!?! thanks for all the help!!!

twicks69
03-01-2006, 10:24 PM
well the reason is...

The Quartermaster can handle anything that you throw at it, it still as excellent engagement characteristics, and is easily streetable while being extremely crisp for drag racing. It drives like a street disk, while engaging like a 6-puck without the heavy jolting of the drivetrain that would cause breakage. You would be able to use this clutch with your car in its current state of tune, or you could also use it in a 700AWHP monster. Rebuild kits for this clutch are also fairly inexpensive when compared to other multi-disk clutches on the market.

granted...the ACT will hold 500hp. but the street disk will burn out fairly quick if it is an organic ACT disk. I would usually get less than 3000 miles a street disk. The six puck lasted less than 3000 miles, and resulted in 3 broken transmissions. The kevlar disk (south bend clutch) has lasted 20K miles, easily over 200 street launches, 100+ track launches, and 100+ dyno pulls. It also engages like a street disk, and can be slipped. When it heats up, it only grabs even better. We took it out 2000 miles ago, and it still had a ton of meat left on it with no uneven wear.

sloLs1
03-01-2006, 10:41 PM
^^^ thank you... that was what i was looking for!!! First hand experiance with clutches!!

EvolvedRegal
03-03-2006, 08:16 PM
Well I guess I can give the best input thus far. These are all of the ctutchs I have driven in an Evo:

stock- pretty much sums it up

ACT 2900 single- my current clutch. I will never buy one again. It won't let you high rpm shift, plus its starting to slip after 12k, my stocker lasted longer.

Exedy twin ceremetallic- very nice grabbing clutch, not that noisy but you know there are 2 disks in there

Exedy triple carbon- very insane, slightly heavy pedal, will take upwards to 1000hp

Tilton twin hybrid- very smooth, loud, car shifts like butter, its the cadillac of clutchs (waiting for mine, backorder is a whore)

RPS single- you want to talk about a heavy pedal this is it, I could barely get the damn pedal down, grips nice though

The HKS, Ralliart twin disks are all made by exedy. Look at the plates if you dont believe me.

My ACT is giving out because number 1 it's a POS, 2- cant hold the power, 3 i shift at high rpms all the time (or i would like to).

I have heard the Exedy's giving out after 25k or so, but overall a very good clutch. But when I drove an Evo with a tilton I was pretty much sold on it. The clutch is one place where you don't want to be cheap. I learned because now I have to pull the tranny again and thats not fun.

sloLs1
03-03-2006, 09:53 PM
^^^ well that puts me over the top... i think i am going to go with a tilton! i have a lot of good stuff about this clutch! Thank you!

twicks69
03-04-2006, 02:23 AM
have fun getting the rebuild kits for the tilton. Great clutches though --I had one in my RX-7 and it had heavy chatter. Handled the HP that I tossed at it, but that wasn't that much.

It will also cost you more in the long run to run the tilton over the quartermaster.

sloLs1
03-04-2006, 08:57 AM
have fun getting the rebuild kits for the tilton. Great clutches though --I had one in my RX-7 and it had heavy chatter. Handled the HP that I tossed at it, but that wasn't that much.

It will also cost you more in the long run to run the tilton over the quartermaster.

doesnt tilton make quartermaster??!?!?! mayeb i am just :alcoholic

twicks69
03-04-2006, 11:38 AM
doesnt tilton make quartermaster??!?!?! mayeb i am just :alcoholic


To the best of my knowledge, no. Tilton Engineering is California based, while Quartermaster is based in Lake Zurich, IL.

Both companies do run in similar circles of clientel and product lineups though.

Bee
03-04-2006, 06:50 PM
tilton is in either builton and/or solvang, CA. 10 min where i grew up. i have friends that currently work there. even then you can't get a good deal. very expensive clutches thus far... how it works.. i've heard good and bad like all clutches. honestly 2600lb and a puck/ceramic/kevlar clutch will hold 500whp.. we swear by ACT and ClutchNet for anything under 500whp... if you should ask me... again goodluck bro.. :thumbsup

sloLs1
03-04-2006, 08:35 PM
this doesnt help... i am already a very indecive(sp?) person!!! oh well... i have a few months to think about it! like i said, when i find out what i want... i will let you guys know how it goes!!! Thanks for all the Input!!!!

fly5150
03-05-2006, 01:40 AM
I'll give you my input. I just put a quartermaster twin disc in my SRT-4 and I absolutly love it. It really is everything the other guys say it is. Reasonably priced, great customer service, stock-like pedal feel and all the holding power I need. Easy streetable. If you wanna try out my car sometime, i'm always out.

sloLs1
03-05-2006, 08:33 PM
I'll give you my input. I just put a quartermaster twin disc in my SRT-4 and I absolutly love it. It really is everything the other guys say it is. Reasonably priced, great customer service, stock-like pedal feel and all the holding power I need. Easy streetable. If you wanna try out my car sometime, i'm always out.

that would be awesome to get a ride in it... hopefully the weather clears up when i am back in town on the 24th... maybe then would could meet up!!

EvolvedRegal
03-05-2006, 10:13 PM
have fun getting the rebuild kits for the tilton. Great clutches though --I had one in my RX-7 and it had heavy chatter. Handled the HP that I tossed at it, but that wasn't that much.

It will also cost you more in the long run to run the tilton over the quartermaster.


Are you joking? the rebuild is $200 direct from tilton. Do some research on the products you buy.


Bee- I wouldn't put it past you to put in a clutchnet clutch into a car. Id rather have a stock clutch than that crap, actually if a shop recommend me that option I would personally ***** slap them. Their overall quality is garbage and with some clutchs they expect you to shave you input shaft on the tranny?!?! If you dont believe me ask clutchnet about their evo applications. Go ahead and sell/recommend that crap to people, no wonder why you have a reputation. Then about ACT read my above post, still garbage wouldn't recommend for any car. If I had the choice between stock and ACT stock it is for me. At least I would be able to shift at 8k. Please don't get me started again. Thanks for spewing your ideas again.

fly5150- Id be interested to just hear the clutch, and feel the pedal pressure.

I agree with Jake. Go with what works and whats been proven.

fly5150
03-05-2006, 10:34 PM
Rebuild kits for the quarter master are in the $150 range.

The clutch is a little noisy, not bad at all. It makes more noise on deceleration than at idle.

fireguyrick
03-05-2006, 10:59 PM
Then about ACT read my above post, still garbage wouldn't recommend for any car. If I had the choice between stock and ACT stock it is for me. At least I would be able to shift at 8k.

Wow, apparently ACT does not have the issues you seem to claim when it comes to Subaru's. I am running my second subaru pushing more then 100hp over stock (with the STi I am pushing nearly 200 more then stock) on an ACT with ZERO problems. My tuner has had no issues with ACT's on any of their Subaru builds. But, that is Subaru, and I have no experience in DSM and EVO land.

Rick

twicks69
03-06-2006, 11:11 AM
Evolved -

you really come off as an a-hole.



As for Tilton replacement assemblies, they are needed on a regular basis because they cannot handle the street use without resulting in premature failure due to rapid friction surface wear. Their clutch assemblies are also very pricey.
It does not wear out quickly due to torque capacity being exceeded. It is more a function of the heat capacity of the carbon-carbon disk assembly that results in rapid wear from stop & go driving.

Evolved - if you feel like the Tilton is the best for you, fine. Have fun waiting for the backordered pricey clutch.
The quartermaster IS also cheaper to rebuild by 10-20+% versus the cost of Tilton replacement assemblies. Quartermaster replacement 2-disk sets go between $120 and $140.

I have also had problems with Clutchnet clutch disks in the past -- I had a 6-puck sprung disk with a 2600 PP. It lasted for very few miles -- less than 3000, but also left me 2 broken transmissions along the way (1st gear, and a 2nd gear hand grenade) The puck surfaces were degrading so quickly that there were small chunks missing from the pad area surrounding the rivots that hold the pad to the disk surface. The disk material has a low heat capacity, and cannot handle stop& go driving.

sloLs1
03-06-2006, 01:08 PM
so much information!!!

EvolvedRegal
03-06-2006, 07:49 PM
Evolved -

you really come off as an a-hole.




I try.