Car dealership ?

[Scales]

This one is for the guys that work/worked at a dealership. I was wondering, if you buy a used car from a dealer, find a problem with the car that was checked off as being "OK", does the dealer have some responsibility to fix the problem or are you SOL for finding the problem too late???

[SLONOMA]

Really depends on the dealership. I've known some that pretty much say o well you're screwed, and other ones that people have brought back with the smallest problems, and dont have to pay a cent to get it fixed. Other things that may affect whether or not the dealer will pay for the fix are, length of time since it was purchased, severity of the problem, how much of a cheap a$$ the dealership is to begin with, and how much the car is worth. If its some budget car they had on their lot, they probably wont care about fixing it, but if it was a used yukon denali, they may be more willing to shill out a few bucks.

[Firefighter Z]

I had that happen to me when I bought a car.
It was checked as OK when it really wasnt took it back and told them they problem and they said they cant do anything about it, so I talked to my GF mom who works for a lawyers office downtown if theres anything I can do and she talked to her boss (LAWYER) and he said since there is a breach in contract stating on paper that the car was ok when it wasnt you violated the contract and that all you have to do is bring a witness/friend in with you and say this WORD (sorry dont know the name) with your witness there to the dealer and your contract and other things you signed will seise to exsist and you will get your money back and anything else you may have paid for that you signed.
BUT! This is IF you want to give them your car back to them.

I'll find out more info for you about this.

Josh

[WilliamZ]

Fly5150 is going through a situation like this right now with his gf's Accord that she just bought from Heiser in West Bend. She bought the car, the next day they realized the transmission has issues and the used car manager wanted her to get her extended warranty to cover it. How is that her responsibility? It was signed off on the vehicle disclosure that there weren't any problems with the transmission. Which was a lie. The dealership should be responsible for fixing it.

[Waver]

Some times they dont car...I was in the process of buying a car a few years ago and I told the dealership the the windsheild had a crack in it, before I signed the papers...they then changed the discloser...and told me that they would pay half of what it would cost to replace...then 2 months later the starter goes, then the timing belt, and then the tranny, less than three months after I bought the car...Did my extended warrenty cover it....No because I didnt add a automatic trans conditioner to it when the tranny was manual.....

[Scales]

Reason I ask (even thought I opened a vault of $hit) is that my wife bought a car from a dealer. When I test drove the car, I couldn't get the brakes to lock if my life depended on it. Fast forward to winter. I take her out in my car and she says "My car doesn't do that" when my ABS is "buzzing"... After driving her car in the snow, it's no question the ABS is not working!!! So I'm wondering if the dealer that sold us the car has some responsibility to fix the problem or if it's all on me now???

[Prince Valiant]

Probably all on you...there is no ABS light?

[PonyKiller87]

I had something similar with my truck. I think it was a week after I bought it the water pump took a crap and was dumping coolant. I took it back to brager, told them the situation and the service manager said I would have to pay my warrenty deductable. I said no, went to the sales guy, he was an idiot, so I went to his boss. Pretty much used the *****, moan, cause a scene approach. Eventualy the sales manager said they would cover the deductable and the rental car.

If the ABS isnt working and thier is no light on is the dash it may just be a fuse right?

[Moparjim]

Sadly they don't have to do a damn thing for you. By law the disclosure check off sheet merely states that they "reasonablely inspected" those items. It is by NO means any sort of warranty or even statement that they are actually ok. So all they have to do legally is say "well see our certified trained expert etc mechanic checked that item out and found it to be ok at the time of sale to the best of his ability to inspect it". This is the case because, from their point of view you can indeed only inspect things so far reasonablely - they can't be expected to tear every car apart and find every little hidden problem that may or may not exist or may crop up in the future. So depending on the dealership it usually involves a test drive, checking all the lights and wipers and etc items quickly, putting it up on a rack and checking the exhaust and brakes and things visually, and checking the fluid levels etc. If the car breaks a timing belt or throws a rod a few days later theres no way they could have "reasonablely" inspected such a thing, unless it had an audible rod knock or something. Basically its all BS that gives people a false sense of security when buying a used car from a dealer - tey can and indeed many of them do still sell lemons and shaft people.

That being said, many WILL stand behind the stuff even though they arent REQUIRED to. Good dealerships that care about their customers and reputation will indeed take care of you if you merely negotiate with them.

[Slow Joe]

Hrmmm Sometimes you get lucky with them, sometimes you don't... If it's a safety issue they have to, it's required by law. But if it's not a safety issue merry christmas, it's yours... Safety issues include brakes, tires, etc... Tires with cracks from sitting, things like that. If it's not disclosed and is a safety issue then they have to fix it. Otherwise it's one of those things where it's good luck... Most of the time we do fix things to make customers happy, but other dealerships don't sometimes... It all depends on what it is.

EDIT: How long have you had the car for??

[Firefighter Z]

You can try reading this: http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/consumer/rights/complaint.htm

[Heat Seeker WS6]

When I bought my T/A from Holz in 97 it actually had a guttedd cat on it- the window sticker had the vehicle checked off as being emisions legal. I discovered that after I bought it when I ran it voluntarially through emmisions because of other issues with the car. They got some big a$$ fine from the state and had to fix the prob by installing an OEM cat on it and having it run through emmisions again successfully- all on thier tab.

[GTSLOW]

When I bought my T/A from Holz in 97 it actually had a guttedd cat on it- the window sticker had the vehicle checked off as being emisions legal. I discovered that after I bought it when I ran it voluntarially through emmisions because of other issues with the car. They got some big a$$ fine from the state and had to fix the prob by installing an OEM cat on it and having it run through emmisions again successfully- all on thier tab.

:wooo that had to be fun to go thru

[pOrk]

Heiser is a joke, their salesman are snakes and will do anything to get you to drive away. I worked there twice for over a year the first time, and 6 months the 2nd time in the body shop. All sorts of scarey **** goes on behind closed doors at that **** hole

[Scales]

I don't think there is an ABS light anywhere on the dash but I may be wrong since I hardly ever drive her car. I think she bought it back in April or May. I guess I'm just gonna have to stop by and talk to the guy to see what we can work out.

Thanks for the input guys!

[Max 93]

seeing that it's been 6 months and knowing where you bought it, I would say your on your own. But it never hurts to to ask.

[Flight_740]

Well, I work for the family dealership and we look at things case by case. If you buy a car from me and 2 months down the road somthing goes wrong, It's your problem. The reason for that is the best mechanic in the world can't predict the future. Why should I fix a car that left our lot working great and broke 2 months later? I don't have any idea how abusive the customer has been to the car. Lets face it, if there was no risk in buying a used car, nobody would buy a brand new one. I offer every one of my customers a GOOD warranty. Not one of those crappy product warranties. If they decline that, it's their own fault.


Now on the other hand, if somthing goes wrong within a couple of days and it's somthing we overlooked, I usually will fix the issue. We are actually pretty fare with people here and thats why we have so many repeat customers.


In your case, if you go to court, you will have to proove that the issue was there when you bought the car. Thats almost impossiable and in that case , you probably would not have bought the car anyways.

[Crawlin]

Heiser is a joke, their salesman are snakes and will do anything to get you to drive away. I worked there twice for over a year the first time, and 6 months the 2nd time in the body shop. All sorts of scarey **** goes on behind closed doors at that **** hole


Hahaha. can't say that... cause with salesmen rotation as it always has been, only one person has been here longer than a year. hell i just started here.

now granted, there is a right way and a wrong way to go about doing things. starting up a HUGE fight isn't gonna make them want to help you.

working at a dealership, i do believe in being fair still. in this case, i don't know enough of it to make a judgement, but if it's been awhile, that length of time is what kills any claim.

for Dave's situation with the accord... i already talked to dave, and because of how things WOULD be handled by the dealership, sometimes it easier for the person to take it to the HONDA dealership for her extended warranty to cover it and make the dealership pay the deductible.

it's amazing being able to be on BOTH sides of the fence, as a customer and an employee and see the one sided views of people that are just on one specific side.

And don't forget, things do go wrong. There is a time and place in which there is always a chance for something to go wrong with anything. Do you know how old the vehicle is? I mean how long has it been in inventory... Cause what if it's over 100 days old? Which it has a great chance of being that old. So in 100 days, can't anyone else agree that 100 days earlier when inspected the vehicle MIGHT have been just fine? And how many test drives did the vehicle get taken on between then and now? And how many of those test drives involved people like a majority of them on this board that post up about taking a car for a test drive and beating on it a little bit, or at the very least WANTING to.

[Slow Joe]

And don't forget, things do go wrong. There is a time and place in which there is always a chance for something to go wrong with anything. Do you know how old the vehicle is? I mean how long has it been in inventory... Cause what if it's over 100 days old? Which it has a great chance of being that old. So in 100 days, can't anyone else agree that 100 days earlier when inspected the vehicle MIGHT have been just fine? And how many test drives did the vehicle get taken on between then and now? And how many of those test drives involved people like a majority of them on this board that post up about taking a car for a test drive and beating on it a little bit, or at the very least WANTING to.

Completely agreed! When a car sits more than 100 days lots of things can happen... I've seen 100 day old cars that need brakes and tires.. Lot rot is a problem. Just think of what a 2100 day old car has wrong with it... :wow We had one and I took it for a drive with a customer, it overheated on the freeway, blew the headgasket and a few other things... :durr Bad things happen when cars sit...

Also if you don't see an ABS light on the dash you might want to look into it further to see if the car really does have ABS.. Turn the key to the on position and look for the ABS light. If it don't come on/there isn't one the vehicle does not have ABS. That has happened a few times where the disclosure was marked wrong that I've seen myself. The only remedy that I've seen was a "sorry for the inconveinence" type idea... So I'm not sure what to tell ya on that issue...

[84hurst]

Just think of what a 2100 day old car has wrong with it... :wow We had one and I took it for a drive with a customer, it overheated on the freeway, blew the headgasket and a few other things... :durr Bad things happen when cars sit...

2100 days old? Used Yugo on sale for only $9999?

[A B4C Z]

I am the used car tech at Hesier Chevrolet. There are some things that can not be found. For example we had a customer bring back a suzuki xl7 and the parking lights would stay on randomly. Needless to say it was a chaffed wire behind the radio. Kind of hard to find something like that. It was intermitin problem of course depending on roads/driving condtions. We did fix it for them free of charge I belive. Always worth going back to the dealer and trying to get it fixed dont be a **** chances are it wont get you to far.

[Slow Joe]

2100 days old? Used Yugo on sale for only $9999?

Nope a '97 Concorde with 85k on it that had a dealership historical cost of somewhere in the neighborhood of $10,500... Yup that one wasn't going anywhere fast... :rolf

[SMOKDU]

THE WHOLE STORY

i am the dealer in west bend

the car had a shifting problem that was hard to feel. we took the car to a honda dealer to see what was wrong. (i know a lot of people )and i got honda to put a new transmisson in it for free. they did not cover the labor. she did buy a warranty from us at first but here credit union offered her a better price and she decided to go that route. i feel bad for her she has had alot go wrong. long story is that i told her mom that if they did not cover the cost $800 i would... she was kind enough to go to bat for me with the credit union who sold her the warranty. turns out they will cover it :thumbsup

if she would have bought this off the street she would have been s.o.l.
somethimes it pays to buy from a dealer you have more recourse. i think everyone is happy.

thx dave for working this out.

honda knows these have problems i guess.

[Flight_740]

Honda/Acura cover the Accord/TL transmissions from 98-00 (I believe) up to 100k.

[Slow Joe]

Honda/Acura cover the Accord/TL transmissions from 98-00 (I believe) up to 100k.

If that's true... That's a value! :thumbsup

[SMOKDU]

yes why would they not cover the labor?

[Flight_740]

Thats part I don't understand but the cases that I have heard of, they did cover labor. :confused

[SMOKDU]

the dealers always look bad when something happens. again its not worth getting into a pissing match. i have always helped push come to shove. i have taken cars back. its not worth the problems sometimes.

[fly5150]

Yeah I must say that Mark has been very helpful. Soon everything will be resolved.

[Flight_740]

the dealers always look bad when something happens. again its not worth getting into a pissing match. i have always helped push come to shove. i have taken cars back. its not worth the problems sometimes.

Right!

Cars seem to be designed to fail. I'll stick with my quote, If used cars didnt break, nobody would buy new.

[SMOKDU]

yes they all break. :fire

i even get stuck with new car trades that have no problems :wow

[Poncho]

@ EVS, it was the Used Car Managers ass then that was in trouble. He was sooo cheap and stingy, he never wanted to fix anything. I hated it. I'd like have to fight him just to get used cars inspected properly.

Then he got fired. Then like became alot easier for me.

[Slow Joe]

@ EVS, it was the Used Car Managers ass then that was in trouble. He was sooo cheap and stingy, he never wanted to fix anything. I hated it. I'd like have to fight him just to get used cars inspected properly.

Then he got fired. Then like became alot easier for me.

Wait a sec... Which EVS... Wait a sec... Which used car manager? lol

[SMOKDU]

this is my ***** about the cars we get. used cars are used cars not new. sometimes we can take a used car in for $2000 and i will drive it and it will drive perfect, no pulling, shifts good, brakes dont make noise. heat works etc.. but after it goes through the inspection the used car tech wants to spend $2000 to fix everything. tie rods, oil seepage, ball joints, rear diff shows leaks etc... where do you stop. i have done this for 15 plus years and most the time the cars are fine and will last many more years without repair. it is not that the used car manager is cheep but rather he is doing his job. if you spend $2000 on repairs you would never sell the car because you would be to high in the price. really if the car drives straight,shifts good and brakes good not leaving oil leaks on the ground why should you fix all this stuff? if you replace every used part with new parts it would be a new car. it is a judgement call on my part and 99% of the time im right. if i am wrong after i sell the car i look at how it was sold. who bought it and if it was sold with these known problems as is.

its a hard job but someone has to do it. :thumbsup

[Crawlin]

YEAH MARK!!!

cause then you have all that replaced and NO ONE gets interested in the vehicle at the higher price and always try to negotiate based on the OTHER vehicle at the $2000 less that someone didn't do that safety work on.

[Slow Joe]

this is my ***** about the cars we get. used cars are used cars not new. sometimes we can take a used car in for $2000 and i will drive it and it will drive perfect, no pulling, shifts good, brakes dont make noise. heat works etc.. but after it goes through the inspection the used car tech wants to spend $2000 to fix everything. tie rods, oil seepage, ball joints, rear diff shows leaks etc... where do you stop. i have done this for 15 plus years and most the time the cars are fine and will last many more years without repair. it is not that the used car manager is cheep but rather he is doing his job. if you spend $2000 on repairs you would never sell the car because you would be to high in the price. really if the car drives straight,shifts good and brakes good not leaving oil leaks on the ground why should you fix all this stuff? if you replace every used part with new parts it would be a new car. it is a judgement call on my part and 99% of the time im right. if i am wrong after i sell the car i look at how it was sold. who bought it and if it was sold with these known problems as is.

its a hard job but someone has to do it. :thumbsup

Agreed on the why fix everything... If there is a problem though it should be stated on the Wisconsin Buyers Guide. We disclose probably 50-60 cars per month and sell probably 40 or more of them. Instead of taking them to the auction, we sell 'em for cheap and get rid of them with all known problems disclosed. I mean here, a '90 Integra with 206k and a blown head gasket... If we fixed it, it'd cost us more than the car's worth so instead we inspected it, disclosed it and sell it AS-IS as a tow away... I mean hey, it's a project but at least you know what you're getting into.

I can understand why used car managers can get mad though... Sometimes mechanics put down normal oil seepage as oil leaks, every car needs wiper blades (even if they're new), the 4wd is inop on all 4wd vehicles... or supposedly the lever is frozen... Even though the 4wd does work... they all have intake leaks, need lights (but never indicate which lights), the brakes ALWAYS need replacement... I mean there are some mechanics that when they see an older vehicle they say everything that's wrong and some things that aren't... Things that should be good if it were a brand new car... But it's not, it's a used car... I've seen one mechanic disclose 45k cars with intake leaks and blown headgaskets... Where another gives it a clean inspection... Sometimes it gets out of hand... And that's when the used car managers get upset... It's hard to sell a car that has a ton of problems marked wrong with it... Especially when it don't have the problems... I have no problem if the car is a total POS to say here, this is why it's a $400 car... But a '00 Explorer with a laundry list... That's out of hand...(especially when it drives straight) The other thing is when you have a vehicle inspected by one mechanic and he discloses tons of things wrong with it, then it's inspected by a different mechanic without knowing that it was already inspected and that mechanic finds less than half of the things wrong with it... Sometimes the vehicles are "bastardized" and are actually decent cars, that's why used car managers get upset when a mechanic brings them a bunch of inspections and they all say the same thing...

I'm not really trying to stick up for anyone, just saying how most used car managers feel... :durr

[Slow Joe]

always try to negotiate based on the OTHER vehicle at the $2000 less that someone didn't do that safety work on.

Yup because it "don't have anything wrong on the inspection so theirs should be more expensive" when their mechanics just didn't disclose it, or they didn't transfer it to the inspection...

[Poncho]

Wait a sec... Which EVS... Wait a sec... Which used car manager? lol

Mayville, Dodge Store. Tom Cooper.. 2 years ago now...

[Poncho]

this is my ***** about the cars we get. used cars are used cars not new. sometimes we can take a used car in for $2000 and i will drive it and it will drive perfect, no pulling, shifts good, brakes dont make noise. heat works etc.. but after it goes through the inspection the used car tech wants to spend $2000 to fix everything. tie rods, oil seepage, ball joints, rear diff shows leaks etc... where do you stop. i have done this for 15 plus years and most the time the cars are fine and will last many more years without repair. it is not that the used car manager is cheep but rather he is doing his job. if you spend $2000 on repairs you would never sell the car because you would be to high in the price. really if the car drives straight,shifts good and brakes good not leaving oil leaks on the ground why should you fix all this stuff? if you replace every used part with new parts it would be a new car. it is a judgement call on my part and 99% of the time im right. if i am wrong after i sell the car i look at how it was sold. who bought it and if it was sold with these known problems as is.

its a hard job but someone has to do it. :thumbsup

W/ my manager, getting new tires on it would be hard to do. Before he'd pull the trigger, he'd literally go thru the bad tires out back to salvage something.
Wasn't like I'd be retarded picky, but I would note all that I found wrong, and hope the major stuff would get fixed.

[Flight_740]

:rolf :rolf Then you have the people that want to take the car to their "hero Mechanic". Not that it's a bad thing but remember, you are paying a mechanic to find any little thing wrong with the car. Then the customer comes back and wants all the stuff mark mentioned replaced so he has a new car and your back to square one. If it's not broke, why fix it?

Car business can be a big headache but on the other hand it can be a blast.

[SMOKDU]

it all comes back to the dealer is always wrong. it is just the nature of the beast. many years ago before the state got involved there was a lot of **** that went down. i do beleive that on the most part we are on the up an up.

I.M.O it is still better to buy from a dealer because at least you can go back and ***** about it. :thumbsup its always buyer beware.

going back to the honda deal. the car is fixed all is good and the customer is happy. thats what it is all about. its not what happends it is what you do after it happens. its always better if the customer is level headed and works things out. going to the state or gettting an attorney only makes it harder. The state has taken the dealers side many times if we did nothing wrong and then you get nothing.

[Flight_740]

We are very good at taking care of people as well (within reason) but once they start threatening us with their lawyer or the state, I show them the door and they get nothing from us.

It very rarely gets to this point though. We sell pretty nice cars I like to think and thats the first step. Not having them come back in the first place. :thumbsup

[Poncho]

I fear buying from dealerships. I think my GTP was the one and only used car I'd buy from a dealership. and thats just cuz of the price. But I wanted a '98 Pace Car that bad, so at the time I didn't care. I just always felt they could have done better, considering I was an employee of EVS at the time, and I got it from a sister store. I always kicked myself for not getting the extended warranty though. Bought it in late september, the trans blew in Feb. and back then, the wife mostly drove it.

Lesson learned. Run from FWD.

[Slow Joe]

Car business can be a big headache but on the other hand it can be a blast.

Yup, oh and Agreed on the hero mechanic thing... I just get all bent out of shape when all the cars have the same problem... And they aren't even the same make/model/mileage... :rolf


Mayville, Dodge Store. Tom Cooper.. 2 years ago now...

Tom was a manager?? I never knew that... He's a salesman now... I'm guessin you worked with Marv too? On some cars I can see trying to salvage some used tires... (cars with 80k + miles in rougher shape, etc...) as long as they match... I know that some of our cheapies have went out of here with a set of used tires on 'em that were alot better than the bald, cords showing, flat, dry rotted tires that they had on them when they came in... :rolf But on a newer car... if it needs 'em, put 'em on...

[Slow Joe]

We are very good at taking care of people as well (within reason) but once they start threatening us with their lawyer or the state, I show them the door and they get nothing from us.

Same with us... I feel we're more than fair.. I mean heck we've even taken back a few cars.. Like you said before it's less of a headache sometimes... Wow, I'm slow with posting today... lol ,I started posting when we were still on pg 2 with the last one and I'm half way down page 3... :rolf

[Poncho]

Yup, oh and Agreed on the hero mechanic thing... I just get all bent out of shape when all the cars have the same problem... And they aren't even the same make/model/mileage... :rolf



Tom was a manager?? I never knew that... He's a salesman now... I'm guessin you worked with Marv too? On some cars I can see trying to salvage some used tires... (cars with 80k + miles in rougher shape, etc...) as long as they match... I know that some of our cheapies have went out of here with a set of used tires on 'em that were alot better than the bald, cords showing, flat, dry rotted tires that they had on them when they came in... :rolf But on a newer car... if it needs 'em, put 'em on...

Whos the GM up there now??? $hit, on my resume, Marv is a reference, LOL.

[Slow Joe]

Whos the GM up there now??? $hit, on my resume, Marv is a reference, LOL.

Ummm Marv is at the Ford store... I think he's the GM in Lomira now since Art and Ernie had a blow-up... But I try to keep out of those things... So I'm not quite sure who the GM is... I think Christine Parker is... I know she's at least the new car manager, along with Rich as the used car manager... But up there thus far the used car manager has rotated every few months so who knows... lol... The place needs a man with no fear to loose money on cars that have been around over 180 days... lol... Some of our rotating managers had some BAD appraising skills... "Oh that Yugo... that's a $9995 retail peice..." :rolf :rolf

Hrmmm I just tried calling Marv... I guess he's on another line... :durr

[Poncho]

I never thought Marv was a bad guy, you just need to know how to handle him.

He hated our Service Advisor, Jenn Sutheimer. Like made her cry once or twice. A few times I actually went to talk to him to get stuff done, cuz w/ her as the middle person **** just didn't happen.

[Slow Joe]

I never thought Marv was a bad guy, you just need to know how to handle him.

He hated our Service Advisor, Jenn Sutheimer. Like made her cry once or twice. A few times I actually went to talk to him to get stuff done, cuz w/ her as the middle person **** just didn't happen.

Marv is awesome... Not good with follow-up sometimes, but he's a cool guy, I truely enjoy when I get to go to up north to do training with the guys on how to do my job... Good thing none of them have mastered it... :rolf :durr My guess is that Jenn don't work there... I have no clue who she is... :confused

[SMOKDU]

followup

thx to Sarah and Dave for letting me have a chance to help you with the problem.

this is the letter i got to day with a box of premium chocolates.

thank you for all the help with the purchase and repairs of my new car. your help and thoughtfulness will not go unnoticed.

wow that makes me want to help more people.

all ends good

end of story.

mark
smokdu
heiser mgr

[Flight_740]

followup

thx to Sarah and Dave for letting me have a chance to help you with the problem.

this is the letter i got to day with a box of premium chocolates.

thank you for all the help with the purchase and repairs of my new car. your help and thoughtfulness will not go unnoticed.

wow that makes me want to help more people.

all ends good

end of story.

mark
smokdu
heiser mgr

You get ****** chocolate!!!

Im done helping people!!! :rolf

[Slow Joe]

You get ****** chocolate!!!

Im done helping people!!! :rolf

Agreed! We help tons of people with problems with their car and we don't get ****... Bastards... lol :rolf