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View Full Version : Signs of the LT1 on its way out?



Firefighter Z
12-08-2005, 11:17 PM
What are some of the signs of and LT1 going out?

I started the car up today and it didnt sound to heathly :crying

Prince Valiant
12-09-2005, 12:15 AM
There are many different sounds that could spell death...and it's unlikely you are hearing any one of them. What's it sound like?

SlowStee
12-09-2005, 02:25 PM
There are many different sounds that could spell death...and it's unlikely you are hearing any one of them. What's it sound like?
its a pretty high mileage LT1 if I do recall

Heat Seeker WS6
12-09-2005, 05:13 PM
So much for the blower

97z2801ss
12-09-2005, 08:11 PM
heh, sumptin high up there almost 200K yet?

Firefighter Z
12-09-2005, 11:04 PM
The mileage is up there I hit 186,023 the last time I drove it was 2 weeks ago and it'll be like that for awhile till i get my garage, right now I'm driving a '01 Camary... But It runs fine but Im hearing a tiny squeel that almost sounds like a belt, hell it might be the alternator going to... I havent really had the time to take a look at it.

The SC will hopefully be coming, I'm getting a great deal on 2 LT1 Complete motors from my uncles best friend that owns ROZ'S. One for SC and the other for going stroked... It'll take time for all of this to get in which I'm in no rush to get done, I like projects.

Hell i'd just sell my car and the 2 motors and buy an LS1 and leave it at that.

Mssplayboybunie
12-10-2005, 11:10 AM
the blower and baby are on the way :)

SlowStee
12-10-2005, 02:28 PM
The mileage is up there I hit 186,023 the last time I drove it was 2 weeks ago and it'll be like that for awhile till i get my garage, right now I'm driving a '01 Camary... But It runs fine but Im hearing a tiny squeel that almost sounds like a belt, hell it might be the alternator going to... I havent really had the time to take a look at it.

The SC will hopefully be coming, I'm getting a great deal on 2 LT1 Complete motors from my uncles best friend that owns ROZ'S. One for SC and the other for going stroked... It'll take time for all of this to get in which I'm in no rush to get done, I like projects.

Hell i'd just sell my car and the 2 motors and buy an LS1 and leave it at that.
Figured you wouldnt try to supercharge a motor with that many miles :)....hopefully things work out nicely

HP ADDICT
12-10-2005, 04:10 PM
Why 2 motors? All you need is the block and make a 383 built for boost....best of both worlds. So yeah either sell it all and get a stock LS1 or put 10k into a blown 383 that will smoke MOST ls1's.

Firefighter Z
12-10-2005, 04:32 PM
Ya it would be a waste of time and effort putting a SC on this motor that so old.
Hmm... A stroked LS1 in the car I have now. It will be the perfect sleeper to the unsuspecting ones. :devil

An LS7 would be great thou to :goof I wonder if anyone has dropped one into a F-body?

Prince Valiant
12-10-2005, 11:46 PM
What's sounds are the engine making?

number1
12-11-2005, 12:27 PM
I need a stock block. :D

Also, a high pitched squeel could just be the alternator. Mine went out at 70,000, started doing the same type of thing. And now my A/C clutch is starting to squeel. They are both common problems for the LT1, reading from cz28.com forums.

HP ADDICT
12-11-2005, 05:10 PM
It would be alot more work then its worth converting a lt1 to ls1 just to have a stroker ls1 in your body style. They really start to even out when you do a high po build. Instead of putting the money into a ls1 stroker you could probably do a LT1 383 and a charger that would out HP the LS1 either way and still come out cheaper. Sure beats changing EVERYTHING plus LT1s sound meaner when they are stroked. Take the money you save over the LS1 and put on some nice heads.

Firefighter Z
12-11-2005, 11:06 PM
I'll find out tomarro where the squeels are coming from hopefully its nothing major. I believe the alternator is still stock though.

HP ADDICT, you make a valid point LT1's do sound meaner and I heard a LS1 swap would be a PITA to do if you dont have the resources to do it with.
Hell I have alot of deciding to do and I have to pick a place to start.

SlowStee
12-11-2005, 11:27 PM
I'll find out tomarro where the squeels are coming from hopefully its nothing major. I believe the alternator is still stock though.

HP ADDICT, you make a valid point LT1's do sound meaner and I heard a LS1 swap would be a PITA to do if you dont have the resources to do it with.
Hell I have alot of deciding to do and I have to pick a place to start.
LT1 to LS1 is a huge swap....it more cost efficient to buy an LS1 car people say

Prince Valiant
12-11-2005, 11:40 PM
Just go with a 383 LT-1, get some nice LT style heads with 205 cc intake runners, a nice moderate cam and other mods to support the newfound power, and you'll be plenty happy.

Firefighter Z
12-11-2005, 11:45 PM
Hmm... I wonder how big (MAX) of a cam I can go with on the LT1?
383 or 396?
Streetable or Dragable?

number1
12-14-2005, 12:33 PM
GM847
AFR ported heads, or a nice LE head/cam package.

383 is a very nice motor for street/strip. If you want more strip look into a 396.

If I can find a LT1 block anywhere, I will start my 383 buildup, you can get a rotating assembly most places for $1500, then the machine work and odds and ends, should be a little of $2500 if you go to the right people. That is my plan, low compression 383 N/A for the summer and S/C for next summer.

HP ADDICT
12-14-2005, 04:09 PM
GM847
AFR ported heads, or a nice LE head/cam package.

383 is a very nice motor for street/strip. If you want more strip look into a 396.

If I can find a LT1 block anywhere, I will start my 383 buildup, you can get a rotating assembly most places for $1500, then the machine work and odds and ends, should be a little of $2500 if you go to the right people. That is my plan, low compression 383 N/A for the summer and S/C for next summer.
With a power adder you won't notice much if anything 396 vs 383. You can go alot bigger then the GM847 and that cam is a poor choice for a blower. $2500 for a built low compression 383? Sure...just don't expect it to play hard. Most good rotating assemblies alone will cost $2500 and with a power adder I wouldn't skimp out. All said and done count on $5000 for the block, a good set of TFS heads $2200 Lloyd ported, lt4 intake $250 and porting, then fuel system, gaskets, cam, valvetrain, and so many other little things....be prepared to spend WELL over $2500, ALOT more if you want JE/callies/oliver 4 bolt mains etc......can't forget the tune, injectors and yeah it will be well over $2500(that number makes me laugh)...

Crawlin
12-14-2005, 04:31 PM
plus LT1s sound meaner when they are stroked.

NO WAY!!!! if you are comparing it to an LS1... have you heard my car? :)

Crawlin
12-14-2005, 04:34 PM
hell, i'd have a complete 382 all bore engine w/ '99 M6 computer and harness for $3000. all you would need is the transmission. well that and a motor mount change, but hell get a tubular k-member that you'd want anyways :) about 460rwhp if not more with the right intake/TB setup.

CHris

HP ADDICT
12-15-2005, 04:29 PM
NO WAY!!!! if you are comparing it to an LS1... have you heard my car? :)
No I haven't but I guess it is an opinion thing. IMO lt1s sound meaner stroked or not. As far as dropping an a ls1...yeah maybe you can get an all bore 382 for $3000 and the tranny cost. I have also heard that the LS1 sits higher, the accessories will all need to be changed, yeah you could tack on a k member for another $400..... but is $3000 complete with heads, exhaust, intake everything? For fuel systems LS1 cars use a different tank so that might add more expense. I just could not justify swapping to a LS1 myself..for the little gains I would get if any. It would also be alot more work, which is not always free. I do know that in all the research I have done on cz28 etc that it IS possible, but its not as simple as a tranny and pcm change. Besides that money that would go towards a tranny/pcm/exhaust/tank/k member would go along way towards if not pay for a set of full port Lt1 heads that would out flow stock ls1 heads and work nicely on a stroked LT1.

Crawlin
12-15-2005, 05:08 PM
oh yeah, it's all in what you want to do. and what you have laying around. the $3000 is for MY complete engine, but it only has an LS1 intake on it now that wasn't mine to begin wth so that'd come off. you can find those for $50. or you coudl get a ls6 intake for about 275-300. The engine itself when new is 8500-9000. i'm not saying that everyone could BUILD one that cheap cause the block alone is 2400 w/ core.

but with everything, things need to be changed. it's not a simple process by any means. and if budget is a concern, stick with what you have cause the little things add up. i never consider things like a fuel system "necessary swaps" because i'd have to upgrade it anyways for the built LT1.

most people doing it are doing it for the power advantage, because with the prices of some ported ls1 heads coming down, and in some cases not even beeing needed to get good numbers, it's all a preference. not trying to start an argument, cause there are reasons why each person goes with the vehicle they choose. my benefit list of the LS1 greatly outweighed the LT1, even in the cost department

Firefighter Z
12-15-2005, 10:57 PM
What about just going with a 355 setup? What does that include and needs to be done?
What kinda gain would I see?

Crawlin
12-16-2005, 09:39 AM
FWIW,

The real budget between a really good 355 and 383 is more than a few hundo.

A 383 puts limits on a lot of things, the heads need to be able to feed the motor and have enough valve in them so they don't choke the motor.

The valvetrain is more likely to be higher lift which requires better parts to make live.

The bottom end is going to have more piston speed and more TQ which is going to stress it more meaning you really need good parts.

Not to mention the intake being a restriction at high RPM as well.

On the other hand a 355....

-Can use a stock crank or a cast steel crank without problems.
-Can easily use stock head castings to get you were you want to go in terms of port sizes and valve sizes.
-The stock intake is not as much of a restriction.

The best thing to do is go and look at inexpensive 355 setups that run really well. There are a lot of them out there, and not nearly as many 383 setups that match those numbers.

Crawlin
12-16-2005, 09:43 AM
now in MY OPINION... this is why ALOT of the 383's and 396's, and whatever else LT1's are out around here, are SEVERELY underpowered. They go big on the engine, but the real power will be in the heads/cam selection. And when you go big cube, big cam, and SH!T for heads like most have done around here, you are sacrificing alot. Then again I don't know the specifics of most of the people's engines, so this can't be stated as 100% truth. just my opinion. crap ported LT1 casting heads with an unported stock lt1 intake = crap IMHO.

juicedimpss
12-16-2005, 10:11 AM
now in MY OPINION... this is why ALOT of the 383's and 396's, and whatever else LT1's are out around here, are SEVERELY underpowered. They go big on the engine, but the real power will be in the heads/cam selection. And when you go big cube, big cam, and SH!T for heads like most have done around here, you are sacrificing alot. Then again I don't know the specifics of most of the people's engines, so this can't be stated as 100% truth. just my opinion. crap ported LT1 casting heads with an unported stock lt1 intake = crap IMHO.
ding ding,you cannot make the runners of stock lt1 heads too big for a 350 incher,let alot have enough head to support a "big" motor.Usually the tree fiddy's run the same numbers as the big motors at the track.

juicedimpss
12-16-2005, 10:12 AM
crawlin, thats a cheap price for your Ls, whoever buys that better be wearin a ski mask

Crawlin
12-16-2005, 10:28 AM
hahaa. i'm probably gonna end up keeping it. no interest at that price, so... oh well.

juicedimpss
12-16-2005, 11:02 AM
if i didnt have so much on my plate right now, i would snatch it up,ls1 power impala....hmmm

HP ADDICT
12-16-2005, 11:47 AM
Crawlin I definitly agree with you. I have always been the guy to go with the best heads possible on a LT1 as that is its main problem. Unfortunatly there are quite a few cam only or mild port lt1 cars around here. One day they will learn that a big cam needs air. I will be running a little over 210cc runners on my setup.

Firefighter Z
12-16-2005, 01:03 PM
Well what I thought was that I spun a bearing which isnt true, I started the car and let it run for awhile the squeeking came back what I thought was a bearing turns out to be the Alternator going like I suspected.
I think Im going to lean towards a 355 and buy another LT1 engine for a back up.

P.s. if I did a 355 I dont have to do anything to the bottom end like 0.30 over, replace pistons, that sorta thing right. I'd like to try and advoid that.

Josh

juicedimpss
12-16-2005, 01:33 PM
you cant do a 355 without a .030 bore,it would stay as a 350

SlowStee
12-16-2005, 02:47 PM
Crawlin I definitly agree with you. I have always been the guy to go with the best heads possible on a LT1 as that is its main problem. Unfortunatly there are quite a few cam only or mild port lt1 cars around here. One day they will learn that a big cam needs air.
omg GET off me

Crawlin
12-16-2005, 03:00 PM
omg GET off me


:confused

SlowStee
12-16-2005, 03:29 PM
:confused
dude harasses me about my heads staying stock ALL the time

Firefighter Z
12-16-2005, 04:33 PM
What kinda FWHP and BWHP ratings would be looking (Estimate) at if I just got the intake and heads ported with a cc306 cam or bigger?

Jo$h

Crawlin
12-17-2005, 11:11 AM
well there has been 400rwhp head/cam with just the hotcam (buddy Dan from down in IL) so i'm to assume you could be alot higher. A number of different factors going into that. I honestly don't like "off the shelf cams". I prefer to run it by a knowledgable person and have them spec it out for my desires. but you have to be ready to answer a ton of questions. People like Joe Overton. Or closely look at all the combo's on camaroz28.com to see the averages certain combos are making.

I'd rather do $1000 bottom end and $2500 top end than the opposite. Reason being, is that 2500 BOTTOM end is now gonna be chocked by those run of the mill basic $1000 heads. Now those are just numbers being tossed out there, not specifics.

HP ADDICT
12-17-2005, 05:01 PM
dude harasses me about my heads staying stock ALL the time
LMAO only when you ask about me helping install a cam in your car....I don't want any hand in another dog lt1. When you want to get serious and do the heads also, I am definitly down to help.

HP ADDICT
12-17-2005, 05:10 PM
What kinda FWHP and BWHP ratings would be looking (Estimate) at if I just got the intake and heads ported with a cc306 cam or bigger?

Jo$h
Well it all depends...400rwhp out of a hotcam is freakish must be M6. I have personally seen a cc306 GTP stage III headed car make 394 rwhp on a laptop tune and with an auto. If you are going to build a 355 remember a lt1 crank is not as strong as a LS1 stock crank and with the GM forged cranks being had for 4-500 I would slap one on if any power adder is in the future. I would rather overbuild my block and never push it to the limits then underbuild one and have to start all over. I would look into a eagle 383 rotating assembly with diamond pistons. If you want boost look into a 4bolt setup. This should be relativily cheap and a 383 would run about $4-500 more then a 355 which at the time you build the motor is fairly cheap considering you will hopefully do it once. A 383 will make more TQ lower which will be smoother on the street. I would never build a 355 unless I wanted a boosted setup turning 7k+, which would require pcm changes etc.....once again this is all just my opinion, there is no set way to do it. All depends on your goal and most of all your wallet.

UnderPSI
12-18-2005, 09:28 PM
make that two votes for eagle stroker kit :thumbsup

Crawlin
12-19-2005, 09:05 AM
yep, was an M6. I know Jim that use to frequent this board was UP THERE with the CC306 cam with cheap ported heads(i think) and an auto and made like 390. maybe we are talking about the same guy. Don't remember if Jim had big heads on that setup or not.

Heat Seeker WS6
12-19-2005, 10:49 AM
Bite the bullet and get the AFR's. Give the LT1 the lungs it really needs. Get a nice Eagle stroker kit, custom grind cam, good rest of the parts needed & a good builder and there ya go.....

HP ADDICT
12-19-2005, 10:51 AM
yes we are talking about the same guy. 394 with GTP III heads cc306 etc. To bad he couldn't get a tranny to hold it.

HP ADDICT
12-19-2005, 10:53 AM
Bite the bullet and get the AFR's. Give the LT1 the lungs it really needs. Get a nice Eagle stroker kit, custom grind cam, good rest of the parts needed & a good builder and there ya go.....
What is it with all the AFR junk. Well they are decent heads but they weigh a ton cost big bucks and LLoyd TFS heads will outflow them for alot less $$$.

Heat Seeker WS6
12-19-2005, 02:18 PM
What is it with all the AFR junk. Well they are decent heads but they weigh a ton cost big bucks and LLoyd TFS heads will outflow them for alot less $$$.

When my motor was apart I dont remember them weighing that much more- if any than the stock head. They have a thicker deck so Im guessing thats where the added weight would come from but am very happy with them.

HP ADDICT
12-20-2005, 11:21 AM
When my motor was apart I dont remember them weighing that much more- if any than the stock head. They have a thicker deck so Im guessing thats where the added weight would come from but am very happy with them.
What CC did you go with? How much did they cost? Are they ported? What are the flow #'s.

Crawlin
12-20-2005, 12:32 PM
So who does some good head porting for LT1 stuff. and are the aftermarket castings that are FINALLY coming out really any better than the stock stuff for the $ over stock castings? how about intakes? what's out there now? just LT1/LT4/GMPP carb intake?

HP ADDICT
12-20-2005, 12:53 PM
So who does some good head porting for LT1 stuff. and are the aftermarket castings that are FINALLY coming out really any better than the stock stuff for the $ over stock castings? how about intakes? what's out there now? just LT1/LT4/GMPP carb intake?
Crawlin, Lloyd Elliot does some great work for fairly low cost. The TFS heads are what I am going to run so I will let you know how they work in spring. The way I looked at it was this: LT1 heads full port flow around 280in 200ex and run about 1900. My TFS heads cost about $2200 full ported. So you are at about a $300 difference, until you sell your stock heads for $150 or so. Are the TFS heads worth the $150? To me yes, bigger runners, thicker deck, better cooling ports. Oh and they flowed 300cfm intake and 230 exhaust. So for $150 or so more I got 20 more cfm out of the intake and 30 out of the exhaust, better heads for a stroker and for boost with the bigger chambers and runners. Intakes are still limiting with the most performance coming from a full port lt4 intake, which you cannot do with stock lt1 heads do to the taller LT4 style ports. AFR heads are good but in my opinion over priced, heavy, and the cooling passages are horrible. THIS IS ALL JUST MY OPINION for all you afr lovers!!

Crawlin
12-20-2005, 01:22 PM
Damn, LT1 head stuff is more expensive than LS1 stuff. What about converted SBC heads for the LT1's? thought i read something about that being done? wouldn't that open up intake selection as well?

HP ADDICT
12-20-2005, 01:30 PM
Damn, LT1 head stuff is more expensive than LS1 stuff. What about converted SBC heads for the LT1's? thought i read something about that being done? wouldn't that open up intake selection as well?
Yes it is but remember that a lt1 is alot more disadvantaged as cast, my $2200 included castings, porting, valvetrain(beehive springs, ti locks and retainers,2.08/1.60 valves)also milling. It is possible to convert sbc heads or sbc2.2 heads but at that point why worry about intake selection? I know with that much $$ mine would be sheetmetal :thumbsup .

Crawlin
12-20-2005, 01:48 PM
haha, of course... sheetmetal it would be....

where can i get info on the SBC conversion for the heads? who's done that so far. Is it really only an advantage if you are heading to an 18* head, or has there been some success with some 23* out of the box heads vs. the ported LT1's?

HP ADDICT
12-20-2005, 02:00 PM
Try cz28.com for that info. For most its not worth the gains for the cost. A turbo or blower would usually end up being cheaper then the sbc2.2 swap and yeild more power, but theres always someone who wants crazy NA power. It has been done and it made over 550rwhp NA, one of the mods on cz28s car. This idea never seemed logical for me to try so I haven't done a ton of research on this.

Crawlin
12-20-2005, 02:42 PM
i guess my ideas roamed around the possibilites of ust stand 23* heads and not the SB2.2 heads. although i did want to do a FULL SB2 engine at one point. i've been on cz28.com for a LONG time, but haven't ever really researched LT1 stuff cause i gave it up 5 years again. still would be interesting to play with an LT1 if i had extra incentive and knew what the hell i was doing with my black car, haha.

HP ADDICT
12-21-2005, 04:05 PM
Well I looked into it a little more....MindGame and NitroDave on cz28 both run SB2.2 setups and both are making around 700rwhp NA. But both of these motors rev to the sky. Normal SBC heads can be converted but the cost of conversion plus porting usually puts you in a more expensive bracket then RR AFR 215cc heads and won't perform much if any better. If you get really nuts there is a company called Areao(sp?) used to be dominion that offers 4 valve lt1 heads that can flow over 300cfm at .400 lift. :headbang

Heat Seeker WS6
12-21-2005, 07:38 PM
I bought my AFRs through TPiS (Tuned Port Induction Specialties) in Minnesota and they went to town on the 195cc casting by CNC'ing them out and put in 2.02 intake/1.65 exhaust valves, titanium retainers, studs and .600 lift springs. I paid just under 2K for them shipped. I dont know off hand what the final flow #s are, but they did come with a printout from the flowbench- should look for that.

juicedimpss
12-21-2005, 10:19 PM
Well I looked into it a little more....MindGame and NitroDave on cz28 both run SB2.2 setups and both are making around 700rwhp NA. But both of these motors rev to the sky. Normal SBC heads can be converted but the cost of conversion plus porting usually puts you in a more expensive bracket then RR AFR 215cc heads and won't perform much if any better. If you get really nuts there is a company called Areao(sp?) used to be dominion that offers 4 valve lt1 heads that can flow over 300cfm at .400 lift. :headbang
those 4 valve heads are junk. they have REALLY BAD pushrod geometry,nothing but problems.

scottie K
12-21-2005, 11:24 PM
i know a stock LT1 heads make good power pending on wha your doing

10 yrs ago i would of had one of the first 11.50ish motor car if i could of figured it out solid 10sec on spray

instead it went 12.4s on a street tire at 119 shifting at 4600 cuz the computer didnt like the cam

i still know people working the LT1s for reasonable prices that will flow around 260-280 mark, mine with clean up 230s

HP ADDICT
12-22-2005, 04:20 PM
I bought my AFRs through TPiS (Tuned Port Induction Specialties) in Minnesota and they went to town on the 195cc casting by CNC'ing them out and put in 2.02 intake/1.65 exhaust valves, titanium retainers, studs and .600 lift springs. I paid just under 2K for them shipped. I dont know off hand what the final flow #s are, but they did come with a printout from the flowbench- should look for that.
Try and find it and let me know. I went with the TFS heads over AFR because of Lloyds recommendations. He told me he could get the TFS heads to flow as much as ported AFR 210s, but liked the cooling passageways and other things more then the AFR stuff. I wanted a true 300cfm head without a hogged port and for me TFS was the way to go. I will have to see how they workout in the spring as of now for all I know they might be junk. Are your AFR heads utilizing a LT4 intake???

HP ADDICT
12-22-2005, 04:26 PM
those 4 valve heads are junk. they have REALLY BAD pushrod geometry,nothing but problems.
I do know that they were redesigned a few yrs back to address this. Only down fall I know of is the head gasket being unique and the pistons needing a custom 4 relief setup. The #s sound nuts though. Oh yeah and the $$$$ for these things would pay for a entire full forged block with US steel in it.

Heat Seeker WS6
12-22-2005, 06:48 PM
I'm using the LT1 intake whch we opened up a bit to match the 52mm throttlebody.
I'm curious as to what he means about the cooling passages as I've never come close to overheating the motor- even while running an hour straight at Road America on several occasions or sitting in traffic forever during Power Tour down south in near 100* temps. I'll dig up that spec sheet.